Football 19/20

[eastynh]

1 minute ago, jyoung said:

Dear, oh dear!

Looks like it is going to be a struggle for you this season mate. You were neat and tidy in parts and did not deserve to be on the end of a 4-0 scoreline, but you don't have enough fire power and kept needlessly giving the ball away under no pressure.

[jyoung]

4 minutes ago, eastynh said:

Looks like it is going to be a struggle for you this season mate. You were neat and tidy in parts and did not deserve to be on the end of a 4-0 scoreline, but you don't have enough fire power and kept needlessly giving the ball away under no pressure.

Thought Tammy did okay first half and was unlucky not to score. Emerson hitting the post also. Could've been a very different story had those gone in. We'll be stronger when Kante is fully fit and Rudiger, Willian, CHO and RLC are back. It was very bad but it's a long season. Let's see what happens. But yeah, as you said... It does look like it's gonna be tough!

Edited August 11, 2019 by jyoung

[The Nal]

Flattering enough scoreline but Utd decent in parts. Mourinho joking/not joking that they signed the defender he wanted a year later. 

Fairly sloppy game but to be expected at this stage with new players etc. 

It'll be a City Liverpool title race though but the other two CL spots up for grabs. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by The Nal

[pink_triangle]

35 minutes ago, jyoung said:

Thought Tammy did okay first half and was unlucky not to score. Emerson hitting the post also. Could've been a very different story had those gone in. We'll be stronger when Kante is fully fit and Rudiger, Willian, CHO and RLC are back. It was very bad but it's a long season. Let's see what happens. But yeah, as you said... It does look like it's gonna be tough!

The trouble is with a lot of this discussion about young players there seems to be an assumption that they will succeed. I'm not convinced there is a single player among the crop I would be shocked if they are playing mid table premiership level or lower in a few years. My guess is some will succeed at the elite level , some quickly fall and most somewhere between.  With Hazard gone I don't see much that impresses me, but feel free to quote this in 9 months if I am (and I often am!) wrong!

[pink_triangle]

14 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Flattering enough scoreline but Utd decent in parts. Mourinho joking/not joking that they signed the defender he wanted a year later. 

Fairly sloppy game but to be expected at this stage with new players etc. 

It'll be a City Liverpool title race though but the other two CL spots up for grabs. 

From a Welsh perspective it's positive to see a young player getting minutes and scoring.

From a Welsh perspective it's negative knowing there's an ex Man Utd player managing us who will not have a clue how to use him at international level!

[Hugh Jass]

Today we’ve seen just how much Chelsea relied on Hazard the last few years.

[jyoung]

7 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Today we’ve seen just how much Chelsea relied on Hazard the last few years.

Yep. Carries us the last two seasons.

15 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

The trouble is with a lot of this discussion about young players there seems to be an assumption that they will succeed. I'm not convinced there is a single player among the crop I would be shocked if they are playing mid table premiership level or lower in a few years. My guess is some will succeed at the elite level , some quickly fall and most somewhere between.  With Hazard gone I don't see much that impresses me, but feel free to quote this in 9 months if I am (and I often am!) wrong!

You're right. Guys like CHO I think are well positioned to succeed but no doubt Mount and Tammy do need to step up. The good news is there are plenty of games between now and the end of the season. The bad news is, if you want to compete at the top, you have to be ready to challenge right away. Time will tell which are good enough.

Edited August 11, 2019 by jyoung

[thetime]

Just the 6 youth team players in the first 11/bench today, that's not counting pogba. ?

[eFestivals]

22 hours ago, eastynh said:

I am pro var but they should be for clear and obvious errors.

love this. Seen a lot of it.

The advocates of VAR are downgrading the benefits they say it has.

It's a mirror of the brexiter promises, once of golden riches and now of "we coped with the war".

 

[eastynh]

30 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

love this. Seen a lot of it.

The advocates of VAR are downgrading the benefits they say it has.

It's a mirror of the brexiter promises, once of golden riches and now of "we coped with the war".

 

 

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, eastynh said:

 

I agree with you about the offside calls in the City game - I'd have had them the other way round too. I wasn't commenting about that.

What advocates of VAR claimed would sort out decisions to their satisfaction isn't doing so, and the supposed benefits of it are being downgraded by those advocates.

[DareToDibble]

I’ve not managed to see much football this weekend so can’t really comment on the individual decisions so maybe I’m not the best placed to talk about it yet but in my mind VAR will undoubtedly be clunky and slow at first but anything that results in the correct decision can only be a good thing in my mind.

[jyoung]

6 minutes ago, DareToDibble said:

I’ve not managed to see much football this weekend

You didn't miss much ?

[DareToDibble]

7 minutes ago, jyoung said:

You didn't miss much ?

I did see the scores, mind ? Tough day for your boys. 

From what I’ve read although they deserved to win, 4-0 flattered United a bit?

[CRW5252]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

I agree with you about the offside calls in the City game - I'd have had them the other way round too. I wasn't commenting about that.

What advocates of VAR claimed would sort out decisions to their satisfaction isn't doing so, and the supposed benefits of it are being downgraded by those advocates.

No one is saying VAR is perfect, there are still a number of issues to iron out but it has huge potential. Anyone who outright dismisses VAR is just being a mixture of inpatient and resistant to change. 

[eFestivals]

34 minutes ago, CRW5252 said:

Anyone who outright dismisses VAR is just being a mixture of inpatient and resistant to change. 

and football needs changing because...?

It's the most popular game in the world BECAUSE of stuff like ref errors, not in spite of them.

[jyoung]

1 hour ago, DareToDibble said:

I did see the scores, mind ? Tough day for your boys. 

From what I’ve read although they deserved to win, 4-0 flattered United a bit?

To be honest, we gifted them opportunities and they took their chances. They were more fluent on the counter, had better end product and mostly, were far stronger at the back. 

[Wooderson]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

and football needs changing because...?

It's the most popular game in the world BECAUSE of stuff like ref errors, not in spite of them.

If (if!) refs made no mistakes I don't think the game would suffer tho Neil. VAR is just a less flawed ref.

[jyoung]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

It's the most popular game in the world BECAUSE of stuff like ref errors, not in spite of them.

Sorry but nobody is saying that when their team loses a Champions League / World Cup Final due to an error that would've been cleared up by VAR.

[pryce]

its the 50/50 calls that are being overturned that get me, always go with the first decision. don't change it because someone else has seen it differently.

how far back for a goal do we go, there was a clear foul in the build up for man citys 5th goal, but it was allowed

if a goal is scored from a corner that shouldn't of been a corner will that be disallowed? if not, why not, no different to a foul in the build of the play.

 

there is umpire calls in cricket, in NFL if the video ref can not 100% be sure, the call on the field stands....I am not seeing any of this at the moment.

Edited August 12, 2019 by pryce

[eFestivals]

33 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

If (if!) refs made no mistakes I don't think the game would suffer tho Neil. VAR is just a less flawed ref.

it's also a break-up in the flow of the game - which is my major objection. And that can never be overcome, it still needs human judgement which can sometimes take a while to judge.

BUT ... refs getting it wrong - or thought to have got it wrong - gives the game talking points, that also disappear with VAR. Yeah, there's new VAR talking points, but actually if VAR was everything that was claimed to bring it in the first place, those wouldn't actually exist.

[pryce]

also see man city fans saying that after the goal was disallowed they didn't celebrate the next goal, just to make sure it wasn't going to VAR.

I do not want that in football....but I suppose we all have to adapt not to celebrate after a goal but try and create the same feeling after 10 seconds of waiting

you are going to end up with bigger celebrations for non goals than goals, and that imo is wrong

Edited August 12, 2019 by pryce

[fred quimby]

34 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

BUT ... refs getting it wrong - or thought to have got it wrong - gives the game talking points, that also disappear with VAR. Yeah, there's new VAR talking points, but actually if VAR was everything that was claimed to bring it in the first place, those wouldn't actually exist.

 

5 hours ago, eFestivals said:

 

It's the most popular game in the world BECAUSE of stuff like ref errors, not in spite of them.

I never quite understand this. So are you saying we should have a quota of errors?, if we had more errors then does the sport become even more popular?. Is there a ratio which shows how "popular" it is to the amount of ref errors? all very subjective, and just because you like to talk for hours about ref errors does not mean others do

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

 

I never quite understand this. So are you saying we should have a quota of errors?, if we had more errors then does the sport become even more popular?. Is there a ratio which shows how "popular" it is to the amount of ref errors? all very subjective, and just because you like to talk for hours about ref errors does not mean others do

I'm simply saying the game as it was became the world's most popular game - with its flaws included.

The errors are talking points. What happens with the popularity when you take those talking points away?

The speed of the game is a part of its appeal. What happens when you add extra periods when the game comes to a stop?

No one actually stops to think about the effect of VAR onto things. It's about "the rules are the rules" and "we can make this perfect"*.

(* changed since Saturday to "oh no we can't"  )

And now we have delays which don't actually bring about anything at all. Just added extra delays which don't make it perfect. The game stops for no beneficial reason at all.

Edited August 12, 2019 by eFestivals

[santowhir]

20 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

The errors are talking points. What happens with the popularity when you take those talking points away?

I enjoyed the bit on MOTD2 when they had a little moan about VAR because they had nothing else to talk about. It seemed to catch them out a little bit. Erhm perhaps talk about the tactics of the game? Rather than an opinion whether something is handball or not.