Football 19/20

[pryce]

Also this handball rule was changed to make VAR easier... Its rubbish. I don't see how it's fair that if a ball is smashed from half a yard away at someone hand when it is in front of their body and is then given a penalty. It's changing the game to much. 

People keep saying it works in other countries, other countries fans hate it. (match going fans anyway) I always wondered why goals in Germany were celebrated with less enthusiasm than the general atmosphere throughout the game.. Now I know why. 

 

Anyway as a Leeds fan I'm not going to ever need to worry about it. 

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, santowhir said:

I enjoyed the bit on MOTD2 when they had a little moan about VAR because they had nothing else to talk about. It seemed to catch them out a little bit. Erhm perhaps talk about the tactics of the game? Rather than an opinion whether something is handball or not. 

but that's pundits, I'm talking fans.

And fans have always had a debate about (say) whether it was handball or not. With the certainty of VAR for that sort of thing that talking point is gone.

So they'll be a bit less of a shared experience of football, because there'll be less talking points for fans to banter over.

[fred quimby]

24 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I'm simply saying the game as it was became the world's most popular game - with its flaws included.

 

It became popular because of TV really, well money I guess and are lower leagues not suffering and lower crowds

. If not then you need to know when. was it more popular before they added new rules around attacking player advantage, no crunching tackles etc seems like it is just another change

24 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I'm simply saying the game as it was became the world's most popular game - with its flaws included.

The errors are talking points. What happens with the popularity when you take those talking points away?

 

No idea, will have to wait and see but do you feel it would be more popular if there was more flaws?

 

The speed of the game is a different thing. Pants at present but that may change.

Also before VAR we could have just sent players off who moan to the ref about his decision as they were always surrounding him and slowing the game down and that would make it faster again. Lots of other ways to speed it up.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, pryce said:

Also this handball rule was changed to make VAR easier... Its rubbish. I don't see how it's fair that if a ball is smashed from half a yard away at someone hand when it is in front of their body and is then given a penalty. It's changing the game to much. 

yup, bit of a w*nk rule change that one.

Fair enough if it comes off an arm into the net, but that's not what happened in one of the weekend games (I forget which). The 'handball' was just one part of ping-pong in the box, and the fact of it hitting an arm didn't have direct bearing on the ball going in the net.

[fred quimby]

3 minutes ago, pryce said:

Also this handball rule was changed to make VAR easier... Its rubbish. I don't see how it's fair that if a ball is smashed from half a yard away at someone hand when it is in front of their body and is then given a penalty. It's changing the game to much. 

 

Yea do not understand that at all.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

It became popular because of TV really, well money I guess and are lower leagues not suffering and lower crowds

It became popular because of how the game is (was), long before there was TV.

TV has merely allowed the people it's popular with to watch much more of it.

 

4 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

No idea, will have to wait and see but do you feel it would be more popular if there was more flaws?

My guess is that the number of flaws/errors has been about right - so that they're able to be those talking points without it being ridiculous by having so many.

Football is entertainment for those of us spectating - and that entertainment isn't only during the 90 minutes, it's also in the time between the matches when it can be talked about. It can now be talked about a little less.

7 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

The speed of the game is a different thing. Pants at present but that may change.

can't see how it will.

There'll be the quick ones that it's easy to make a judgement about, but there'll also be the more marginal decisions, that have to be looked at a number of times and from a number of angles before there's a VAR decision.

They might skim a second or two off that but they won't make it less than the 30 secs or whatever it's always going to take to go thru that process.

10 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

The speed of the game is a different thing. Pants at present but that may change.

Also before VAR we could have just sent players off who moan to the ref about his decision as they were always surrounding him and slowing the game down and that would make it faster again. Lots of other ways to speed it up.

Players are still going to do that - and in at least one of the games at the weekend they were at the ref about the VAR decision. 

[kaosmark2]

There's 2 factors as to why I'm watching football less. 

1) I'm not working with people who talk about football, so it's less of a social thing

2) games dragging more, and VAR is contributing to that

[fred quimby]

36 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It became popular because of how the game is (was), long before there was TV.

 

Well yes of course true. A simple game that can be played easily by anyone with competion between towns involved. Not sure the amount of ref mistakes really made much difference at all.

[eFestivals]

13 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

Not sure the amount of ref mistakes really made much difference at all.

and that's exactly my point.

You're not sure what impact VAR is going to have, but you're sure you want VAR.  

[eastynh]

16 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

and that's exactly my point.

You're not sure what impact VAR is going to have, but you're sure you want VAR.  

Well if VAR had existed then City would have not lost the Champions League knockout tie a couple of seasons ago against Liverpool (they would have gone through though last season against Spurs though)

VAR should be there to counter clear and obvious errors, like the one where Milner was a million miles offside last season or when Serling got a penalty after tripping over his own feet. There is absolutely no excuse for decisions like that being given when technology is there to show a clear and obvious error.

Ones like Sterling being offside on Saturday should be given. It was not a clear and obvious error. As shown in the video I posted, if the footage had been froze one frame earlier, Sterling would have been onside. For occasions such as that, it should be like the cricket where there is a soft call by the ref or linesman. If the linesman had originally called it on side, then after viewing the footage, because it was so tight then it should have stayed as onside. If for example there was daylight/distance between Serling and the defender then the decision could have been over ruled.

Things like this can be ironed out. The replays also need to be shown on the screens in the stadium. That will add to the tension and excitement. 

[thetime]

No coincidence VAR coming and smalling not making the match day squad.

[pink_triangle]

6 hours ago, jyoung said:

Sorry but nobody is saying that when their team loses a Champions League / World Cup Final due to an error that would've been cleared up by VAR.

Which teams have lost a champions league/world cup final because of an error that would have been cleared up by VAR?

[Wooderson]

Getting calls correct doesn't wreck the game. The slowing down of the play is a mess but will only improve. A ref that gets things nearly right each time can only be a good thing. To hell with the discussions about shite biased refs.

[pink_triangle]

I think you need to look why the rules were made in the first place. The offside rule was not brought in to stop players getting a toenail advantage.

[mjsell]

8 hours ago, pryce said:

I don't see how it's fair that if a ball is smashed from half a yard away at someone hand when it is in front of their body and is then given a penalty. It's changing the game to much. 

That would't be a penalty...

If the hand was above their head or outstretched to make their body bigger it would be. 

[mjsell]

3 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I think you need to look why the rules were made in the first place. The offside rule was not brought in to stop players getting a toenail advantage.

Why does it matter why the rule was brought in? 

The rule is the rule - and that hasn't changed with the introduction of VAR. VAR is now just enforcing the rule correctly. Sounds like you have more of an issue with the offside rule itself, but VAR is an easier target. 

[mjsell]

And all this talk about how  VAR is ruining the atmosphere and breaking up the game - please let me know why the the best period of the West Ham/City game, with the most intensity and atmosphere, was directly after a VAR decision?

[pink_triangle]

On 8/11/2019 at 12:09 PM, jyoung said:

At first I thought it was just a bunch of industry types patting themselves on the back but then I thought you may as well try the 30 day free trial and see for yourself! If you like it, it's only £2.50 per month for a years subscription. They've assembled a really strong team of football writers, each of which have been covering their selected teams for decades. What I've read so far has been in-depth, detailed and interesting (piece on LFC and the national anthem for instance). The content seems to be geared towards quality rather than clicks. Oh and there's no ads. Whether it works, or lasts remains to be seen but I've enjoyed it's coverage so far.

I have signed up and enjoy the articles I have read so far. However not sure I will continue when you need to pay, although maybe would if I supported premiership team.

[eFestivals]

12 hours ago, eastynh said:

VAR should be there to counter clear and obvious errors

why should it?  Get back to me *AFTER* you've considered the cost to the game of changing the game. 

Great article about the costs to football - one i'd not considered myself: goal celebrations are now a thing of the past.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/12/var-premier-league-football

 

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, Wooderson said:

Getting calls correct doesn't wreck the game.

you making that comment only shows you're not actually thinking about what I've said about VAR. My objection to VAR is *NOT* about an objection to the ref getting it right. Suggesting it is is as moronic as the questions I got asked here yesterday.

Slowing the game changes the game. Taking away goal celebrations changes the game. Taking away talking points changes the game.

No one is considering the effect of those changes onto the game, they're only thinking about how it might advantage their team.

[jyoung]

10 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Which teams have lost a champions league/world cup final because of an error that would have been cleared up by VAR?

None, I assume but I mean to say, if Liverpool had lost that final based on a terrible refereeing error which could have easily been avoided by VAR. Would @eFestivals still think the same?

 

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

I have signed up and enjoy the articles I have read so far. However not sure I will continue when you need to pay, although maybe would if I supported premiership team.

Probably fair enough. This one's an interesting read for NUFC fans on here: https://theathletic.com/1132481/2019/08/13/benitez-exclusive-the-real-story-of-my-newcastle-exit/

Edited August 13, 2019 by jyoung

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, jyoung said:

None, I assume but I mean to say, if Liverpool had lost that final based on a terrible refereeing error which could have easily been avoided by VAR. Would @eFestivals still think the same?

yep.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't talk about it. It would be a talking point, after all.

edit: FYI, jyoung, your posts got auto-modded because of URL being on a blocked list (it's used by spammers).

Edited August 13, 2019 by eFestivals

[pryce]

were incorrect decisions driving people away from the game? I don't think so

is VAR going to drive some people away from the game ... well it is with me already. and is it going to bring more fans in? also probably no

 

why would a linesman even flag for offside now? you might as well let the play develop and then check. its going to be checked anyway.

wait until they start putting Ad breaks before a VAR decision, its all about that sweet sweet money now, who cares about the sport

Edited August 13, 2019 by pryce

[jyoung]

16 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it: FYI, jyoung, your posts got auto-modded because of URL being on a blocked list (it's used by spammers).

No worries.

[Gnomicide]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Great article about the costs to football - one i'd not considered myself: goal celebrations are now a thing of the past.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/12/var-premier-league-football

 

This has been my main worry with it. I watch the NFL and there is always that nagging feeling that any touchdown could be overturned. At the match, and on the TV I suppose, there is often that quick glance to the linesman to see if they are flagging before you properly celebrate. 

I suppose we'll see how it goes but I think it will temper celebrations and saving it for the VAR decision would just be weird.