Is it OK to book bands who sing about killing Tories?

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

1 hour ago, gigpusher said:

But will the Daily Mail. They've had one 'win' so what's the harm in kicking up a fuss about some other artists? 

This is my main concern.  Now they have found an easy target and got a result out of it they will push other things on their list of outrages. 

[gigpusher]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I don't disagree, but "he's worse than me" isn't a meaningful defence.  

I know. There a hard line to be drawn between defending free speech but not supporting hate speech. I'm one of the few people who doesn't agree with the throwing of milkshakes. I honestly don't support anything that leads to more tribalism because particularly in this social media age people just retreat to their own echo chambers and it isn't healthy or useful for functioning democracies. I think the election of people like Trump is already showing the problems with this. 

I long for a day when you can discuss and I mean properly discuss politics without resorting to childish name calling. I fear we are a long way from it. You only have to look at Trump's tweets today to see how far. 

[gigpusher]

11 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

I'm imagining a wildly aggressive version or Sir Mix-a-Lot.

So was I! ?

I live with a dog whom we lovingly call Sir Hump-a-lot so I was imagining him as the total opposite. 

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

 

[Hugh Jass]

1 hour ago, gigpusher said:

This is the dangerous precedent that I fear has been set. If you examine closely enough almost everyone on the lineup will have a view that is not 100% the ethos of Glastonbury or be friends with someone who does. If we get a line up of people who have studiously avoided every type of possible controversy and have never caused offence to anyone would we not just have a line up that is blander than bland. 

George Ezra once did 72 on the motorway, he is shitting it now.

[The Martini Police]

2 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

George Ezra once did 72 on the motorway, he is shitting it now.

I thought that was Ed Sheeran?

[Hugh Jass]

1 minute ago, The Martini Police said:

I thought that was Ed Sheeran?

It was Sheeran who called the police.

[henry bear]

Dead Kennedys played in 2017. Presumably their song ‘Kill The Poor’ isn’t as offensive as ‘Kill Tory Scum’

[Nobody Interesting]

25 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

I know. There a hard line to be drawn between defending free speech but not supporting hate speech. I'm one of the few people who doesn't agree with the throwing of milkshakes. I honestly don't support anything that leads to more tribalism because particularly in this social media age people just retreat to their own echo chambers and it isn't healthy or useful for functioning democracies. I think the election of people like Trump is already showing the problems with this. 

I long for a day when you can discuss and I mean properly discuss politics without resorting to childish name calling. I fear we are a long way from it. You only have to look at Trump's tweets today to see how far. 

You are not alone in thinking this way.

[CaledonianGonzo]

The issue is that you don't beat fascists by engaging them in civilized debate. 

They're not playing by the same set of rules that you are.

[Abbathehorse]

37 minutes ago, anditmakesmesmile said:

Has anyone who is commenting actually listened to the song? There is no way that anyone will hear this and think, oh, I must go out and kill a Tory. They might want to kill the singer because of her annoying voice, but nobody is going to see this as anything other than a metaphor for feeling angry about Tory policies. 

I agree, but I am not sure that is the point. The issue is, are songs of this nature normalising the threats of violence which have become more common in recent years, particularly over social media and the like?

It is much like Tescos don't expect someone to see one of their adverts and expect everyone to leave the house and go shopping. But what they are doing is keeping their brand in people's minds, gradually creating a theme and message that resonates with people whether they are aware or not. I can see why there are concerns about threats of violence becoming similarly subconsciously ingrained, no matter how tongue-in-cheek the original material.

Would I have removed them from the bill? I'm not sure. But what I am sure of is:

1) The same rules have to apply for all. As much as I disagree with much of Tory policy, it is no more acceptable to threaten them with violence than any liberal MP.

2) Whether they are serious or not, threats of violence can be very scary and damaging and nobody deserves to feel unsafe for doing their job.

3) Given that the friends and family of Jo Cox have experienced the worst possible consequence of this, we should respect the opinions of her foundation, rather than dismissing them.

4) Glastonbury is the greatest place on earth, with a fantastic left-leaning ethos, where effective activism and debate can flourish, without the need for violence, and the Daily Mail will never defeat that.

[Matt42]

On 6/2/2019 at 1:39 PM, bombfrog said:

If all the Tories suddenly died in a horrible boating accident, would the world be a better or worse place for it?

Things would be different but then the pigs would start walking on their hind legs eventually.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Matt42

[gigpusher]

23 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

The issue is that you don't beat fascists by engaging them in civilized debate. 

They're not playing by the same set of rules that you are.

But extremists on both sides don't win elections it's the people in the middle who could be swayed in either direction that do and they absolutely can be won over by civilised debate. If you assume Farage, Boris Johnson etc are lost causes but could your Nan, or the man who serves you in the pub, or the co-worker who doesn't know that much about politics but always votes change their mind. They obviously do or else we would only ever have one type of government and it would never change. I know for sure that calling every Tory voter selfish or greedy or racist or stupid certainly won't change their mind. You have hope if you persuade them with the power of reasoning. Understand their fears and explain why things are not the way the right wing media suggest. My mother in law is a Daily Express reader and she occasionally comes out with comments about Muslims or Eastern Europeans that are unpalatable to my husband and I to say the least but we are trying to not just jump down her throat when she says them instead we come back with our real life experience of working with these people and tell her about them instead, using their names, talking about their families making her realise that they are real humans. 

[Winslow Leach]

Zac Goldsmith has done more to normalise violence against left wing figures than some crusty punk band have done for right wing politicians.

Why the fuck is he on the bill?

[CaledonianGonzo]

8 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

Zac Goldsmith has done more to normalise violence against left wing figures than some crusty punk band have done for right wing politicians.

Why the fuck is he on the bill?

For a civilised debate in the marketplace of ideas.

Seriously though, I hope whoever's onstage with him goes HAM on his record.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

Zac Goldsmith has done more to normalise violence against left wing figures than some crusty punk band have done for right wing politicians.

Why the fuck is he on the bill?

because he doesn't actually advocate violence?

It's a line, and our (supposedly) civilised society sees crossing that line as a big difference. I don't think society has got that wrong.

Where we're going wrong is with demonising people with different views - in both directions. Like it or not, people aren't voting tory because they want to act out an evil streak, just as people don't vote Labour because they want to turn the UK into a Stalinist USSR.

[Blisterpack]

Ray Jones, erstwhile MC on the Joe Strummer “Rock Against the Rich” tour in the ‘80’s (with ‘your dads a horrible man’ Rees Mogg botherer Ian Bone watching on), delivering articulate and clever play with words. It’s offensive. It’s playful. It’s art. It’s punk. It’s not inciting anyone to actually kill anyone. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Blisterpack

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

It’s not inciting anyone to actually kill anyone. 

the same could be said about Zach Goldsmith but someone (just above) decided he was inciting.

Which, I think, shows the real problem. If we want freedom of speech/expression for ourselves we have to grant the same to others.

Edited June 3, 2019 by eFestivals

[Winslow Leach]

Changed my signature, now I'm out of this thread.

[Blisterpack]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 If we want freedom of speech/expression for ourselves we have to grant the same to others.

Totally agree. Yet I find myself in agreement with Billy Bragg in relation to accountability for what you say. It’s an interesting debate and we have to be careful with where it’s going. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

1 hour ago, gigpusher said:

But extremists on both sides don't win elections it's the people in the middle who could be swayed in either direction that do and they absolutely can be won over by civilised debate. If you assume Farage, Boris Johnson etc are lost causes but could your Nan, or the man who serves you in the pub, or the co-worker who doesn't know that much about politics but always votes change their mind. They obviously do or else we would only ever have one type of government and it would never change. I know for sure that calling every Tory voter selfish or greedy or racist or stupid certainly won't change their mind. You have hope if you persuade them with the power of reasoning. Understand their fears and explain why things are not the way the right wing media suggest. My mother in law is a Daily Express reader and she occasionally comes out with comments about Muslims or Eastern Europeans that are unpalatable to my husband and I to say the least but we are trying to not just jump down her throat when she says them instead we come back with our real life experience of working with these people and tell her about them instead, using their names, talking about their families making her realise that they are real humans. 

If you feel you can negotiate with and persuade someone you know through civilised discussion then go for it.  I guess I'm talking in more general terms about tactics that work and don't work against the fash - who're very much back with a vengeance.  And the usual paradigms of political discourse don't apply.  You can't debate your own continued existence with someone who thinks that you have no right to it.

[HalfAnIdiot]

3 hours ago, henry bear said:

Dead Kennedys played in 2017. Presumably their song ‘Kill The Poor’ isn’t as offensive as ‘Kill Tory Scum’

Did they do Police Truck, some choice lyrics there! 

I was present but in body only so can't remember!

A lot of DK stuff is satire, written from the position of the target of ridicule. Could and did go over a lot of heads tho.

[frostypaw]

4 hours ago, gigpusher said:

I'm one of the few people who doesn't agree with the throwing of milkshakes.

You don't have to agree with it to be amused at the degree of upset and offence while there are people getting bricks thrown through their windows and the rest the other way.... It's a game of contrasting levels of what's tolerated.

[gigpusher]

57 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

You don't have to agree with it to be amused at the degree of upset and offence while there are people getting bricks thrown through their windows and the rest the other way.... It's a game of contrasting levels of what's tolerated.

Don't get me wrong I'm not crying over the sight of Tommy covered in milkshake but I think if anything it makes people think more sympathetically towards him and Farage and that I don't want to see. I'd rather someone exposed the weakness in their arguments and policies (or lack thereof) and made them look like the opportunistic idiots that they are. 

[suzie sue]

Eat the rich