Is it OK to book bands who sing about killing Tories?

[zero000]

Advocating a band singing about killing politicians is not ok. It may be "satirical" but that argument can just as well be used by the other side.  I think many on here would not be so keen on defending a band should it be Labour MPs who were targeted. When the Jo Cox foundation says it's too far it probably is.

[kingbadger]

Notice that Shangri-La are happy for Craig Charles to play still despite his clear links to the extremist Sir Killalot.

[gigpusher]

Just now, kingbadger said:

Notice that Shangri-La are happy for Craig Charles to play still despite his clear links to the extremist Sir Killalot.

This is the dangerous precedent that I fear has been set. If you examine closely enough almost everyone on the lineup will have a view that is not 100% the ethos of Glastonbury or be friends with someone who does. If we get a line up of people who have studiously avoided every type of possible controversy and have never caused offence to anyone would we not just have a line up that is blander than bland. 

[Winslow Leach]

4 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

This is the dangerous precedent that I fear has been set. If you examine closely enough almost everyone on the lineup will have a view that is not 100% the ethos of Glastonbury or be friends with someone who does. If we get a line up of people who have studiously avoided every type of possible controversy and have never caused offence to anyone would we not just have a line up that is blander than bland. 

I think he was joking.

[eFestivals]

13 minutes ago, Penrhos said:

This just smacks of knee-jerk political correctness

that's something which 'the left' are very quick to use themselves.  

I'd say there's an amount of 'what goes around comes around' to this. If 'the left' expect standards of others then shouldn't they live-up to them themselves?

[gigpusher]

Just now, Winslow Leach said:

I think he was joking.

But will the Daily Mail. They've had one 'win' so what's the harm in kicking up a fuss about some other artists? 

[concerned]

1 hour ago, Winslow Leach said:

I must have missed the spike in violent hate crimes against Tories. There's an entire history, context, and set of connotations, rooted in tangible real-world acts of violence, discrimination and oppression, that exist for phrases like 'kill all Jews' that simply don't exist for members of the Conservative party, and I cannot believe that this isn't blindingly obvious.

Different things are not the same.

For every single group that has faced or faces tangible real-world acts of violence, discrimination and oppression, there was a time in the past when they faced none of those things.

 

Things are always alright, until they aren't. 

 

Implying a group is fair game until there is an act of violence and oppression and then it must stop is very much shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. 

[Mr.Tease]

1 hour ago, Winslow Leach said:

I feel far more uncomfortable about The Cure potentially playing Killing an Arab, to be quite honest.

I talked about this on another thread. I'm half Arabic, and used to think the cure were some sort of racist band because of the title of that song! 

Only really found out otherwise a few years ago, but I still don't like the title of that song. Even if it is about Camus's book, I used to like the Outsider and from what I remember the ethnicity of the person killed was irrelevant (it was a long time ago so I could be wrong). I think they've changed the lyrics to 'Killing Another' which makes more sense. 

But for me I don't think the songs any good anyways so it's not worth keeping it! 

Definitely wouldn't ban them or even think of banning them, I'd just feel a bit uncomfortable if they played the song with its original lyrics, but I can handle feeling uncomfortable! Will still be going to see them though! 

[Winslow Leach]

1 minute ago, Mr.Tease said:

 

Only really found out otherwise a few years ago, but I still don't like the title of that song. Even if it is about Camus's book, I used to like the Outsider and from what I remember the ethnicity of the person killed was irrelevant (it was a long time ago so I could be wrong). I think they've changed the lyrics to 'Killing Another' which makes more sense. 

Ooh, I dunno about this, given Camus' own proximity to, and conflicted relationship with, France's colonisation of Algeria - but that's for another thread entirely.

[priest17]

Where do we stand on bands inciting bollockular-elctro-shocking? https://www.nme.com/news/music/liam-gallagher-david-cameron-wants-bollocks-electrocuting-brexit-2504313

[eFestivals]

21 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

This is the dangerous precedent that I fear has been set. If you examine closely enough almost everyone on the lineup will have a view that is not 100% the ethos of Glastonbury or be friends with someone who does. If we get a line up of people who have studiously avoided every type of possible controversy and have never caused offence to anyone would we not just have a line up that is blander than bland. 

I think that misses the point entirely. The offence caused is not about "a view", it's about saying to kill those you politically oppose.

Yes, I know it's not meant seriously, and IMO it would be better if society was adult enough to recognise that, but ... In democracies we don't kill our political opponents we vote them out of office. 

If a band had a song which was 'vote out the tories' there'd be no issue. When it's about violence it's something else.

[Winslow Leach]

I'm sorry but this thread has descended into utter lunacy - people sincerely worrying that the Daily Mail is about to start a campaign against Craig Charles' involvement with Robot Wars or that Tories are becoming an oppressed group.

 

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[shoptildrop]

I'm conflicted with this one, as think it was too much a knee jerk reaction to the press coverage and all it's done is elevated the band on a higher platform - more exposure, social media outrage and merch sales!!! I would not be surprised if this song is now covered by other bands across the site... whereas before maybe a handful of people would have watched them and thought nothing of it.

 

However, I do understand in our political climate how the song title could be taken literally and jumped on by nutters... we are seeing people being stalked, death threats, assault and unfortunately being hurt (and killed  ) as some folk just take things too far, twist words round and create justification for their actions...

 

So with that I understand why they have cancelled them but I don't like the precedent it sets, as where will it stop??

[gigpusher]

1 minute ago, Winslow Leach said:

I'm sorry but this thread has descended into utter lunacy - people sincerely worrying that the Daily Mail is about to start a campaign against Craig Charles' involvement with Robot Wars or that Tories are becoming an oppressed group.

 

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

I'll be honest I have never watched robot wars in my life (because I have one )  so assumed he was an artist along the lines of Ghostfaced Killah. Apologies for my lack of knowledge of Robot Wars and the distress it has caused you. 

[kingbadger]

7 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

I'm sorry but this thread has descended into utter lunacy - people sincerely worrying that the Daily Mail is about to start a campaign against Craig Charles' involvement with Robot Wars or that Tories are becoming an oppressed group.

 

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Seems like this thread needs this fella:

 

[gigpusher]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I think that misses the point entirely. The offence caused is not about "a view", it's about saying to kill those you politically oppose.

Yes, I know it's not meant seriously, and IMO it would be better if society was adult enough to recognise that, but ... In democracies we don't kill our political opponents we vote them out of office. 

If a band had a song which was 'vote out the tories' there'd be no issue. When it's about violence it's something else.

The band themselves say it was meant as in vote out. If you look in this thread you'll see I agree that that's what they should have said instead. They clearly are a band who like to shock and as a result don't get a lot of airplay and were not likely to have a huge audience at 4 in the morning. Their own desire to shock effectively creates self policing as they would never be likely to get the media coverage, the audiences etc. In fact the right wing press will have done them a favour and increased their popularity a thousandfold. 

It's people who get the huge media attention like Farage, Trump etc who actually cause far more problems at normalising violence towards people with whom they disagree. 

[clarkete]

26 minutes ago, concerned said:

For every single group that has faced or faces tangible real-world acts of violence, discrimination and oppression, there was a time in the past when they faced none of those things.

 

Things are always alright, until they aren't. 

 

Implying a group is fair game until there is an act of violence and oppression and then it must stop is very much shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. 

I think even despite all the terrible things some of their elected leaders have done, actually there's barely a grumble about the tories, there are always other targets which get more blame.

[Winslow Leach]

10 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

I'll be honest I have never watched robot wars in my life (because I have one )  so assumed he was an artist along the lines of Ghostfaced Killah. Apologies for my lack of knowledge of Robot Wars and the distress it has caused you. 

Well now your comment makes a lot more sense...

[gigpusher]

4 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

Well now your comment makes a lot more sense...

If you ever want a Robot Wars joke to go over someone's head it appears I'm your person!! 

[Winslow Leach]

Just now, gigpusher said:

If you ever want a Robot Wars joke to go over someone's head it appears I'm your person!! 

I did wonder!

[gigpusher]

Just now, Winslow Leach said:

I did wonder!

To be fair to me if you've never seen an episode in your life and aren't even aware that Craig Charles was involved in it there was nothing in the comment to suggest it was a joke and let's face it artist do have some weird names! 

[gizmoman]

1 hour ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

In discussions about free speech, context is absolutely everything.  The context here is that a very small, very tongue-in-cheek, rock band are expressing their hatred of the tories in a comically over-the-top way.  It does not amount to a call-to-arms and no serious person would ever believe it did.  If we insist on drawing comparisons with the Nazis, then the accurate comparison would be that these are a radical Jewish music hall act doing a mock hanging of Hitler in the 1930s.  Unfortunately, in this analogy, Glastonbury are the music hall that have bowed to 'Government' pressure and cancelled them.

This is how I felt after listening to the song, but I suspect it was the video that brought the ban, If it had been more OTT or comical it could well have been thought satirical, as it is it comes across as a pretty nasty glorification of violence.

[anditmakesmesmile]

Has anyone who is commenting actually listened to the song? There is no way that anyone will hear this and think, oh, I must go out and kill a Tory. They might want to kill the singer because of her annoying voice, but nobody is going to see this as anything other than a metaphor for feeling angry about Tory policies. 

The record is shit. They were on at four o clock in the morning for a reason and the populist press hysteria has ensured that such a mediocre band, that would probably have petered out before next year’s Glastonbury, will carry on far longer than their obvious lack of talent would otherwise merit. 

That, however, isnt the point. Even if the band were immensely talented, Glastonbury should have a stronger backbone and stood up to the anodyne brayings of a Daily Mail journalist. 

[Winslow Leach]

22 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

To be fair to me if you've never seen an episode in your life and aren't even aware that Craig Charles was involved in it there was nothing in the comment to suggest it was a joke and let's face it artist do have some weird names! 

I'm imagining a wildly aggressive version or Sir Mix-a-Lot.

[eFestivals]

35 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

It's people who get the huge media attention like Farage, Trump etc who actually cause far more problems at normalising violence towards people with whom they disagree. 

I don't disagree, but "he's worse than me" isn't a meaningful defence.