Primavera Sound 2020

[Hip Priest]

1 hour ago, ghostdancer1 said:

over 2 weeks and still no word on refunds....

Didn't they say they were waiting until the Spanish State of Emergency was over before they would outline the "alternatives"?

[xxialac]

That’s only until April 19. Easy to block one third of the seats at the moment when demand is for less than two thirds of the seats. 

I think they will do it for a short time but it’s not an acceptable solution for the airlines if they want to run their flights at a profit and it’s not even social distancing. 

[The Crimson King]

1 hour ago, xxialac said:

That’s only until April 19. Easy to block one third of the seats at the moment when demand is for less than two thirds of the seats. 

I think they will do it for a short time but it’s not an acceptable solution for the airlines if they want to run their flights at a profit and it’s not even social distancing. 

I completely agree with you, but most businesses will have to adapt. The Dutch perspective is very much that social distancing will be in place for the foreseeable future. (Suggested 2 years). And they are pretty liberal. 
 

admittedly apps could be introduced to track people’s health. But low cost and long distance travel are most probably on hold for a couple of years. 
 

[xxialac]

9 minutes ago, The Crimson King said:

I completely agree with you, but most businesses will have to adapt. The Dutch perspective is very much that social distancing will be in place for the foreseeable future. (Suggested 2 years). And they are pretty liberal. 
 

admittedly apps could be introduced to track people’s health. But low cost and long distance travel are most probably on hold for a couple of years. 
 

Damn, you’re right.it’s a scary future ahead of us. Not a fan of the new normal.

[JedTheHumanoid]

1 hour ago, xxialac said:

That’s only until April 19. Easy to block one third of the seats at the moment when demand is for less than two thirds of the seats. 

I think they will do it for a short time but it’s not an acceptable solution for the airlines if they want to run their flights at a profit and it’s not even social distancing. 

so they'll raise the prices a bit. and also oil prices are very low now, it's better than current state.

this is just like the extra security costs after 9/11, eventually everything will adjust to the new normal.

until a cure/vaccine is found and we'll go back to the good old normal

 

[clasher]

Blocking the middle seat has about as much effect as not shaking hands before a football match. It is also the easiest "safety measure".

More will follow, effective or not, however the only workable solution I see is mass testing. 

You can't really put long distance travel on hold for a couple of years without enormous damage to both tourism industry and business in general and once you have a means of only allowing healthy people to travel, you don't have a reason to do so either. 

[The Crimson King]

4 minutes ago, clasher said:

Blocking the middle seat has about as much effect as not shaking hands before a football match. It is also the easiest "safety measure".

More will follow, effective or not, however the only workable solution I see is mass testing. 

You can't really put long distance travel on hold for a couple of years without enormous damage to both tourism industry and business in general and once you have a means of only allowing healthy people to travel, you don't have a reason to do so either. 

Can you see there being a tourism industry for the next couple of years? 

[xxialac]

Yeah, testing, testing and more testing would be the best way to handle this before the vaccine. But aviation and tourism is needed by the economy and they will find a way to make it work with or without testing, even if it just a fudge like heat sensors and masks.

Festivals and other mass gatherings that can't be simply filmed without an audience are not needed, however, by the economy. Dark times ahead for anyone working in the sector.

[clasher]

37 minutes ago, The Crimson King said:

Can you see there being a tourism industry for the next couple of years? 

In short - of course. Same goes for entertainment industry. I'm happy to elaborate if you want.

[The Crimson King]

5 minutes ago, clasher said:

In short - of course. Same goes for entertainment industry. I'm happy to elaborate if you want.

Please do. Working in the entertainment industry and living in a different country, my understanding is that travel will be very different for the foreseeable future and that most of the events I’ve worked with are only about 50% on for next year. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by The Crimson King

[clasher]

I really don't want to trivialize covid-19, but it isn't the black plague. By this I mean that a bigger threat than the virus itself is a) our so far poor knowledge of the virus and b) health care systems being overwhelmed (partly due to lack of preparation).

We need lockdowns to stop the first wave, which is what we are doing - learning about the virus in the process. Once the first wave is dealt with the medicinal and pharmaceutic industry can focus on preventive/diagnostic measures, rather than trying to scramble whatever resources they can find. China is already doing that, shipping tones of equipment to Europe. 

The next step is tracking the movement and mass testing. Both can be all sorts of problematic - I won't go into that - but doable and being worked on already. Once we have this sorted, there's really no reason to limit air travel. 

Mass gatherings are more problematic, but we'll gradually get there. Major tourist sites will certainly have to implement restrictions and stricter crowd control. Smaller venues open first, etc. While the entertainment sector may not be considered as needed or necessary by the governments, it is absolutely vital for the people. It will get hit hard and the prospects are sadly bleak, but it will survive because there will always be demand and - in the not so distant future - sufficient preventive measures as well.

TLDR: No reason for any restrictions for healthy people. We just need to up our testing game.

[Andrej]

Everything will be different until vaccine / cure is in place. Social distancing will still take place, theatres / cinemas will not be able to sell every seat, we can forget about big festivals / events. Planes will need to block all the middle seats etc, restaurants will need to have 1-2 meters between tables. Unfortunately this industry, music events etc, will take some time to get back at its feet. Looking at mid 2021 earliest. 

 

[The Crimson King]

1 hour ago, clasher said:

I really don't want to trivialize covid-19, but it isn't the black plague. By this I mean that a bigger threat than the virus itself is a) our so far poor knowledge of the virus and b) health care systems being overwhelmed (partly due to lack of preparation).

We need lockdowns to stop the first wave, which is what we are doing - learning about the virus in the process. Once the first wave is dealt with the medicinal and pharmaceutic industry can focus on preventive/diagnostic measures, rather than trying to scramble whatever resources they can find. China is already doing that, shipping tones of equipment to Europe. 

The next step is tracking the movement and mass testing. Both can be all sorts of problematic - I won't go into that - but doable and being worked on already. Once we have this sorted, there's really no reason to limit air travel. 

Mass gatherings are more problematic, but we'll gradually get there. Major tourist sites will certainly have to implement restrictions and stricter crowd control. Smaller venues open first, etc. While the entertainment sector may not be considered as needed or necessary by the governments, it is absolutely vital for the people. It will get hit hard and the prospects are sadly bleak, but it will survive because there will always be demand and - in the not so distant future - sufficient preventive measures as well.

TLDR: No reason for any restrictions for healthy people. We just need to up our testing game.

Good reasoning, most of which is valid.
As you say our poor knowledge of the virus is a major issue. The PM of Sweden said yesterday ‘We’ve got this wrong’ and they were trying to keep everything going. 

To reference the Netherlands again, they are currently investigating the option of dividing the country into 10 districts and infecting each district to build up herd immunity. It’s a real possibility and it will take 2 years of management to see it though. This is a model developed on the fact there may not be a vaccine, but the countries health care system can deal with each district as a time. They site the 40 years it took to get a vaccine of sorts for AIDS.
However there is a flaw  due to the fact we already have coronavirus vaccines, just not one for this specific strand. Which could be something to celebrate, or could be a real problem. 

No one knows right now what will happen, but any sensible entertainment business (from small venue to major label) should be planning for public interactive work to certainly be off the table for 2020, if not 2021 as well. Planning will save businesses (and lives) not rushing to get things open again. 

Internationally, countries are moving at a completely different pace, meaning travel between them will be a staggered process.  Tourism will be vastly changed for the foreseeable future.

I truly hope I regret this post... and everything is back to normal by the summer as you say. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by The Crimson King

[Andrej]

Unfortunately i agree with the above post. Hard and difficult times are ahead of us. And to put it as simple as it gets; until they find vaccine / cure, social distancing will be in place. With social distancing in place == no concerts, cinema, theatres, festivals, museums, sports, pretty much any kind of entertainment. Now, will that be for 10 months, 1 year or 2 years, nobody knows. But before vaccine / cure, and then a few months after until it becomes available to all of the public - no mass gatherings i am afraid. What a weird time. 

[Swanmob]

If that's the case all cinemas, theatres, festivals, many sports clubs etc will go out of business. Can that be allowed to happen? 

[xxialac]

34 minutes ago, Swanmob said:

If that's the case all cinemas, theatres, festivals, many sports clubs etc will go out of business. Can that be allowed to happen? 

Can’t see there’s a choice. Governments can’t financially afford future lockdowns and having mass gatherings will increase the infection numbers to the point where the health systems can’t cope. Some things will just have to be sacrificed.

They might allow smaller one off gatherings like cinema screenings and small gigs. But big gigs, music festivals and sports events look the most vulnerable (albeit the latter can at least be televised instead).

The absolute worst combination is:

- high density crowds

- long duration events

- international attendees

Oh fucking dear.

 

[Andrej]

Yes, something like that. Cinemas / theatres can survive in a way they keep social distancing, maybe sell every second or every third seat. So in a theatre of 600-700 seats, you may be able to sell 200-250 seats. Something like that for restaurants, bars etc.

Some airlines have already announced that from now on, for at least 1 year, they will block middle seat in all of their planes, for instance in a row of A B C ,  B will stay empty, in a row of D E F , E will be empty.

Festivals, large gatherings etc, just have no way out here. And will be the last ones to open and function again. Who knows when.

[xxialac]

The one thing I struggle with getting my head around is how they are going to allow transport systems to get back to normal. 

Metros in major cities at rush hour are as bad as any concert surely (in fact, worse)? 

And what's the point in spacing out airline seats when we are all wedged up against each other's armpits on the trains in the millions twice a day?

Edited April 13, 2020 by xxialac

[The Crimson King]

I’ve mentioned it before here that the Dutch are already saying businesses will have to have a 1.5m policy in place to reopen and it will be part of society for the foreseeable future. (EST. 2 years)...

This guy also has a point 

https://www.nme.com/news/music/coronavirus-healthcare-expert-predicts-concerts-and-festivals-will-not-return-until-autumn-2021-2645626

 

[xxialac]

3 minutes ago, The Crimson King said:

I’ve mentioned it before here that the Dutch are already saying businesses will have to have a 1.5m policy in place to reopen and it will be part of society for the foreseeable future. (EST. 2 years)...

This guy also has a point 

https://www.nme.com/news/music/coronavirus-healthcare-expert-predicts-concerts-and-festivals-will-not-return-until-autumn-2021-2645626

 

And what about transportation? So Dutch people carefully adhere to the 1.5 metre for for everything meticulously but then get on public transport twice a day where they are pressed up against each other and miraculously there's an acceptable risk of infection for this? And schools? How on earth do you keep kids 1.5 metres apart all day? I don't get it.

That guy definitely has a point. Most epidemiologists are saying 18 months plus for deployment. 

 

[The Crimson King]

6 minutes ago, xxialac said:

And what about transportation? So Dutch people carefully adhere to the 1.5 metre for for everything meticulously but then get on public transport twice a day where they are pressed up against each other and miraculously there's an acceptable risk of infection for this? And schools? How on earth do you keep kids 1.5 metres apart all day? I don't get it.

That guy definitely has a point. Most epidemiologists are saying 18 months plus for deployment. 

 

1.5m will be introduced on public transport as well. I know it sounds like a crazy idea. They have started with trams only allowing people to board through certain doors and some seats being cordoned off. Metro is similar. There are marks on the ground for people waiting to board. Welcome to Bladerunner...
 

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, The Crimson King said:

1.5m will be introduced on public transport as well. I know it sounds like a crazy idea. They have started with trams only allowing people to board through certain doors and some seats being cordoned off. Metro is similar. There are marks on the ground for people waiting to board. Welcome to Bladerunner...
 

Ha, I'd love to see them get to 1.5m on the London tube in rush hour, where people are packed in like cattle. There'd be queues for miles to get into the tube stations.

0.1m would be a major improvement.

[bluenova]

2 hours ago, Andrej said:

Festivals, large gatherings etc, just have no way out here.

We could all be put in a Zorb at the entrance.

Imagine the mosh pit

[The Crimson King]

3 minutes ago, bluenova said:

We could all be put in a Zorb at the entrance.

Imagine the mosh pit

Best. Idea. Ever

[The Crimson King]

3 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Ha, I'd love to see them get to 1.5m on the London tube in rush hour, where people are packed in like cattle. There'd be queues for miles to get into the tube stations.

0.1m would be a major improvement.

Agreed. Working in London each summer is always a nightmare for me. But it’s also the new reality, so someone’s going to have to find a solution, just look at the amount of bus drivers that died already.