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Primavera Sound 2020


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5 minutes ago, daveje said:

Actually no, you can look back on the spain fatality numbers day-by-day and see a few one day falls in the numbers.

Give it a few days to see if there's a trend. One day proves nothing.

Totally right and far from certain. "It looks as though it might have turned a corner but needs to be validated with another lower number today."

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7 hours ago, xxialac said:

Totally right and far from certain. "It looks as though it might have turned a corner but needs to be validated with another lower number today."

Italy recorded a lower increase for the second day straight. Finally reason to believe it may be on the wane there. Will Spain have a similar trajectory?

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Just now, xxialac said:

Italy recorded a lower increase for the second day straight. Finally reason to believe it may be on the wane there. Will Spain have a similar trajectory?

In any case june is gone. I think we will get to zero daily cases in Italy in 3 weeks/ 1 month. Then you have to sum I would say at least 3 weeks of additional lock down. So Italy will get back to normal around the half of may. If Spain is 1/2 weeks behind and all goes well, it will end at the beginning of june there, definitely too late

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5 minutes ago, whos3000 said:

In any case june is gone. I think we will get to zero daily cases in Italy in 3 weeks/ 1 month. Then you have to sum I would say at least 3 weeks of additional lock down. So Italy will get back to normal around the half of may. If Spain is 1/2 weeks behind and all goes well, it will end at the beginning of june there, definitely too late

I meant it might turn around in time to be able to run it in September/October.

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If September-October was on they would probably have soft booked one of the weekends at the Barcelona Princess, they have not, so my guess the alternatives are still 27-30 August or cancellation. BTW interesting to read peoples reaction when the festival posted a video of the 2019 Suede gig two hours ago. Not exactly much comments on Suede...

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1 hour ago, puckno said:

If September-October was on they would probably have soft booked one of the weekends at the Barcelona Princess, they have not, so my guess the alternatives are still 27-30 August or cancellation. BTW interesting to read peoples reaction when the festival posted a video of the 2019 Suede gig two hours ago. Not exactly much comments on Suede...

image.thumb.png.5fcae2ab3af6aba144f569905f998b5c.png

Saw that - very much has the feel of a tweet that was scheduled/programmed long ago 

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14 hours ago, puckno said:

If September-October was on they would probably have soft booked one of the weekends at the Barcelona Princess, they have not, so my guess the alternatives are still 27-30 August or cancellation. BTW interesting to read peoples reaction when the festival posted a video of the 2019 Suede gig two hours ago. Not exactly much comments on Suede...

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It’s also possible they still haven’t decided when best to postpone it to. We are still in March and the festival is not til June so perhaps they need more time to understand when is a reasonable postpone date, based on clearer data which is starting to emerge.

The Facebook comments fail to account for the likely need to keep cash back in order to remain a going business and of course if they are seeking to postpone they don’t want to refund people and then have to go to the trouble of selling the tickets back to them.

The situation looks like it will be even worse in the US (and peak later) and imagine US bands will be reluctant to commit to European tours.

IMO they should focus on building a festival of the best European bands only and towards September/October if they see postponement as highly likely to be possible.

 

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The good thing that can happen from festivals cooperating together on this one is to postpone several of them in a way that will allow many artists to adjusts their tours.

Personally I'm starting to think that postponing will not happen. August seems more and more as too early, and I doubt that even when things will go back to normal, it won't be all at once, there will be many months till all countries remove the restrictions on flights and tourists, and that large gatherings will still be limited.

So large international festival with bands and crowd from dozens of countries? very unlikely in the next half a year

Edited by JedTheHumanoid
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3 minutes ago, xxialac said:

The Facebook comments fail to account for the likely need to keep cash back in order to remain a going business and of course if they are seeking to postpone they don’t want to refund people and then have to go to the trouble of selling the tickets back to them.

That may be right. But what Primavera organizers fail to account for is that at this point it is clear that they will not be able to fulfill their part of the contract. Their customers have fulfilled their obligations, however. I consider part of Primavera´s obligations to be honest with their paying customers. To not officially cancel "in order to remain a going business" and "because they don´t want to refund people and then ..."  is not honest and is not doing proper business as I understand it.

IF they do things this way because they want to find the best solution for the customer (and keep themselves alive in the process), fine. But one - it sure doesn´t look that way and two - why not just say so? And no, their press release did not say so. To me, it looks like Primavera organizers don´t consider their own and their customer´s interests to be on the same level in their contracts. I would really, really like them to prove me wrong, but...

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I agree with you Chilly Toad. They are creating a narrative to keep on the same course ´for all the good reasons´ when the reason in reality is to wait for government cancellation so they can trigger the force majeure clauses in their obligations to all parties. It is a spin in order to try people to buy into another months wait ´for alle the good reasons´ and the partial refunds when government intervenes. I don´t mind to have only partial refunds etc in order for all the good work for this years festival and keeping the festival for the future, but I have higher expectations from Primavera with regards to communication and honesty.

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18 minutes ago, Chilly Toad said:

That may be right. But what Primavera organizers fail to account for is that at this point it is clear that they will not be able to fulfill their part of the contract. Their customers have fulfilled their obligations, however. I consider part of Primavera´s obligations to be honest with their paying customers. To not officially cancel "in order to remain a going business" and "because they don´t want to refund people and then ..."  is not honest and is not doing proper business as I understand it.

IF they do things this way because they want to find the best solution for the customer (and keep themselves alive in the process), fine. But one - it sure doesn´t look that way and two - why not just say so? And no, their press release did not say so. To me, it looks like Primavera organizers don´t consider their own and their customer´s interests to be on the same level in their contracts. I would really, really like them to prove me wrong, but...

I think if they well before June either move the festival to later in the year or cancel - and then offer an exchange or refund - they will have fulfilled their part of the contract. I'm as sure as I can be this is what they will do. This is an unprecedented situation. And it's better than SXSW where people could not get a refund.

If a bank discloses that it is financial difficulty, you get a run on it with customers' frantically withdrawing cash, causing a death spiral.

If Primavera implies (being transparent as you suggest) that they are struggling to pay their bills, too many people will then choose the refund option, which could ultimately give them not enough working capital to continue. A similar death spiral. Plus there may be an insurance angle here.

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1 minute ago, puckno said:

I agree with you Chilly Toad. They are creating a narrative to keep on the same course ´for all the good reasons´ when the reason in reality is to wait for government cancellation so they can trigger the force majeure clauses in their obligations to all parties. It is a spin in order to try people to buy into another months wait ´for alle the good reasons´ and the partial refunds when government intervenes. I don´t mind to have only partial refunds etc in order for all the good work for this years festival and keeping the festival for the future, but I have higher expectations from Primavera with regards to communication and honesty.

What makes you think that there will be partial refunds? This would be very damaging for their reputation and they have been financially successful over 20 years so must have some reserves.

Far more likely that they get the majority of people to defer their ticket to the next edition, refund people in full where they have to, claw back the money for the bands from the insurance .

There then is a hole in next year's budget so they either borrow from the bank, book cheaper bands/pay bands less or increase ticket prices for 2020.  Of these, probably the second option.

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Because a lot of festivals and concerts are offering these kind of solutions these days. Yes, a deferral is likely. Same also to be offered partial refunds, I just got back 70% from my local Big Thief gig. I consider full refund unlikely, but we will see. And who knows, maybe Primavera has something to hide on the money side. Maybe their 2020 tickets sold in 2019 went into the 2019 result. Maybe the running burn is very high. We dont know. We just have to see. My big disappointment is lack of transparency and honesty in communication, and not being honest about June not happening.

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3 minutes ago, puckno said:

Because a lot of festivals and concerts are offering these kind of solutions these days. Yes, a deferral is likely. Same also to be offered partial refunds, I just got back 70% from my local Big Thief gig. I consider full refund unlikely, but we will see. And who knows, maybe Primavera has something to hide on the money side. Maybe their 2020 tickets sold in 2019 went into the 2019 result. Maybe the running burn is very high. We dont know. We just have to see. My big disappointment is lack of transparency and honesty in communication, and not being honest about June not happening.

Agree we have to wait and see. If they get the money back on the bands from the insurance, then they will definitely offer full refunds.

But it's possible that the insurance will try and wriggle out of it.

Also possible any statement they make could jeopardise the insurance so they cannot be as transparent as they would like.

Imagine how stressed they all are. Ultimately they are people, who are passionate about the same thing we are and have delivered amazing festivals for us, now facing an extraordinary challenge through no fault of their own.

I think better to leave any recriminations to after whatever they decide to do.

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Nobody blames them for things that are obviously not their fault. Everybody appreciates the work they do every year and most probably everyone here will be back for the next edition, whenever that may be. That includes me, of course.

On the other hand, I do not see a need to interpret everything in the way that is most convenient for them. I am only asking for more transparency.

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3 hours ago, duckula said:

Whatever happens festival numbers will be down because no-one has any fucking money to spend.

This risk is being undervalued imo but yes - even when things resume, I think there's going to be a lot of people with no money to spend on events like this, sport, cinema, theatre etc, so there's going be a double wave effect of first stopping everything and then longer-term financial strife. Especially if it leads to people developing a longer term unease about crowds.

Also, there's the risk to promoters everywhere on stuff like this. So its going to be a fucking minefield afterwards.

2 hours ago, puckno said:

Just got back from FB communication with Primavera, "... We'll gonna give you all the information very soon. ... "

Well presumably they can't come out and say "Hey, June's still on guys!" - even if this crisis were to end tomorrow, there'd still be a lot of consequences to deal with first.

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15 minutes ago, charlierc said:

This risk is being undervalued imo but yes - even when things resume, I think there's going to be a lot of people with no money to spend on events like this, sport, cinema, theatre etc, so there's going be a double wave effect of first stopping everything and then longer-term financial strife. Especially if it leads to people developing a longer term unease about crowds.

True. Higher ticket prices for next year seem very improbable. But then, can the bands keep their price demands as high themselves? This will be interesting in so many aspects...

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3 minutes ago, Chilly Toad said:

True. Higher ticket prices for next year seem very improbable. But then, can the bands keep their price demands as high themselves? This will be interesting in so many aspects...

Yeah, it will just be a function of the laws of supply and demand.

Less demand will lead to the bands not being able to charge out their time at their old rate. Fewer festivals too.


 

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