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Benja100

Politics at the festival

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24 minutes ago, Losing my hair said:

What we don't need is the current "Help to Buy" policy which is just a taxpayer subsidy to the major house builders.

true, and mostly used by not-hard-up people to get a better deal than they'd otherwise have, rather than to benefit the disadvantaged.

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4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

It might be pointed out that the corbynistas started it, ran with it, and shouted it loudly, but don't seem to like others doing what they do. 

Corbyn has only been Labour leader for a few years. I think you're a little attached to this particular bone. The jeering and confrontational nature of our parliament and it's extreme swings have been going on a little longer than that so it's unlikely they started what I was talking about.

eg. wasn't even specifically talking about brexit when i said compromise, i thought it was clearly general case.

Sometimes it's worth checking .... actually no. Scrap that. Been down this rabbithole before - carry on - Corbyn terrible yes.

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5 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

Corbyn has only been Labour leader for a few years. I think you're a little attached to this particular bone. The jeering and confrontational nature of our parliament and it's extreme swings have been going on a little longer than that so it's unlikely they started what I was talking about.

eg. wasn't even specifically talking about brexit when i said compromise, i thought it was clearly general case.

Sometimes it's worth checking .... actually no. Scrap that. Been down this rabbithole before - carry on - Corbyn terrible yes.

 

On 5/18/2019 at 1:25 PM, frostypaw said:

The opposition benches aren't there to diametrically oppose everything the party in power do. That's never ever been the case yet seems to have emerged as a belief lately

You talked contemporary, so did I. :) 

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1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

I've re-read what I wrote a few times and can't see how you got that from it.

It was a response to a poster throwing shade at people abandoning Labour because of their stance on leaving the EU. It's just strange, the idea that us lefty Remainers should continue to support Labour, despite them being openly Leave, why? Because Labour have to support Leave or the lefty Leavers will all abandon them.

It's so strange. The notion we should abandon our principles because otherwise other people will.

I apologise - I made the mistake of not reading the whole back-story and took your comment out of context - i.e. weighing up one thing against an unrelated other to make a point. My fault - sorry.

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If you are a Remain voter then I would encourage you to visit https://www.remainvoter.com/ .  They have done the data analysis to recommend the most effective tactical vote to maximise the number of "remain" MEPs under the d'hondt system based on the latest polling data for your region.

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46 minutes ago, timbrass said:

If you are a Remain voter then I would encourage you to visit https://www.remainvoter.com/ .  They have done the data analysis to recommend the most effective tactical vote to maximise the number of "remain" MEPs under the d'hondt system based on the latest polling data for your region.

Pleasantly surprised that told me to vote Lib Dem. Was expecting it to recommend SNP.

Have been delivering leaflets like crazy for Lib Dems in build up to election. I'm looking quite forward to a break from politics at the festival. 

However, totally appreciate the history of the festival and that politics will always be ingrained in it. Luckily, it's also fairly easy to ignore if you want to. Other than having Jeremy Corbyn on stage in the middle of a set (which I didn't really agree with, but never got tickets that year so didn't effect me).

 

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7 minutes ago, found home in 2009 said:

Pleasantly surprised that told me to vote Lib Dem. Was expecting it to recommend SNP.

I'd guess that's because the SNP seats are just about guaranteed, but with some extra votes the LibDems might nick one or more seats off brexit parties.

Because of the way the votes are regionalised it works poorly as a PR system, and a party normally needs 20%+ of the votes in a region to get a seat.

Edited by eFestivals

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3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I'd guess that's because the SNP seats are just about guaranteed, but with some extra votes the LibDems might nick one or more seats off brexit parties.

Because of the way the votes are regionalised it works poorly as a PR system, and a party normally needs 20%+ of the votes in a region to get a seat.

Nothing, absolutely nothing would convince me to vote for the arch political opportunists, the experts in cheap soundbites and empty rhetoric that is the snp. They are anti Brexit only because it suits their sole political objective . Hopefully the Lib Dem’s and labour can get enough votes. 

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2 minutes ago, Ayrshire Chris said:

Nothing, absolutely nothing would convince me to vote for the arch political opportunists, the experts in cheap soundbites and empty rhetoric that is the snp. They are anti Brexit only because it suits their sole political objective . 

I'm not entirely sure of that last part, but whatever, it's going to be funny hearing the SNP in an indy campaign claiming all the bad things with the separation of brexit will good things for the bigger separation of indy. :P 

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3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I'm not entirely sure of that last part, but whatever, it's going to be funny hearing the SNP in an indy campaign claiming all the bad things with the separation of brexit will good things for the bigger separation of indy. :P 

True!  In the north east of Scotland their candidates are tartan tories, in the central belt they are rabid socialists and in the borders they are middle of the road federalists. To gather votes they are as we say up here ‘awe things take awe men’

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20 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I'd guess that's because the SNP seats are just about guaranteed, but with some extra votes the LibDems might nick one or more seats off brexit parties.

Because of the way the votes are regionalised it works poorly as a PR system, and a party normally needs 20%+ of the votes in a region to get a seat.

The site expected 3 SNP seats, 1 Brexit Party seat, 1 Labour Seat and 1 Lib Dem, but due to the intricacies of the D'Hondt system if people vote tactically for Lib Dems the expect that will actually help SNP gain Labour's seat. 

I'm not sure if their logic is correct or not, but as a Lib Dem member I'm not complaining about anything that tells people to vote for us

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1 hour ago, timbrass said:

If you are a Remain voter then I would encourage you to visit https://www.remainvoter.com/ .  They have done the data analysis to recommend the most effective tactical vote to maximise the number of "remain" MEPs under the d'hondt system based on the latest polling data for your region.

Thanks! Was going to vote Lib Dem - will switch to Change UK.

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12 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I'm not entirely sure of that last part, but whatever, it's going to be funny hearing the SNP in an indy campaign claiming all the bad things with the separation of brexit will good things for the bigger separation of indy. :P 

I voted Yes in the Scottish referendum, but I struggled to make my mind up how to vote. Think the main thing that swung it for me was seeing the rise of UKIP in England and thinking maybe the rest of Britain wasn't going in the direction I'd like.

What's happened since confirmed those suspicions, but as a passionate remainer in EU referendum I kind of realised how inconsistent my positions were. Also we've got to witness how difficult sorting a divorce agreement is for the smaller entity.

Would now vote no if indyref 2 ever happens.

I've noticed in Scotland the most vocal unionists are the most vocal for Brexit. Whilst the most vocal proIndy people seem to be most vocal proEU. None of them seem to notice the inconsistency in their views.

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3 hours ago, timbrass said:

If you are a Remain voter then I would encourage you to visit https://www.remainvoter.com/ .  They have done the data analysis to recommend the most effective tactical vote to maximise the number of "remain" MEPs under the d'hondt system based on the latest polling data for your region.

Thanks for this. Was looking for some polling data to help me make my decision. Looks like I get to vote with my heart and my head for once. It suggested I vote Green. 

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The media are only going to focus on the percentage of votes rather than the most MEPs so I don't see tactical voting having much of an effect. If Brexit Party win by as much as is predicted because the remain vote is split then it'll be portrayed as a leave victory regardless of the total number of meps

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8 hours ago, eFestivals said:

You talked contemporary, so did I. :) 

There's a reason you've snipped that quote there.

The confrontational thing's been going for a long long time - the whole "WHY ISN'T HE OPPOSING IT" thing came from both hard-remainers and hard-leavers for reasons of desperation for a champion and target respectively - not any particular disliked politician's fan club. They were too busy cheering on whatever he was doing at the time no matter what.

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1 hour ago, Scott129 said:

The media are only going to focus on the percentage of votes rather than the most MEPs so I don't see tactical voting having much of an effect. If Brexit Party win by as much as is predicted because the remain vote is split then it'll be portrayed as a leave victory regardless of the total number of meps

The maths is not too complex!  You add the totals for LD, GRN, CUK, SNP and PC together.  (Who know what anyone voting CON or LAB were thinking).  If a little tactical voting brings in one or two extra Remain MEPs then that is good thing (IMO).  

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16 minutes ago, timbrass said:

The maths is not too complex!  You add the totals for LD, GRN, CUK, SNP and PC together.  (Who know what anyone voting CON or LAB were thinking).  If a little tactical voting brings in one or two extra Remain MEPs then that is good thing (IMO).  

I don't think this is how the media will portray it unfortunately. They'll see Brexit Party on 34% and Lib Dems/Labour on like 16% and say "wow look how many people want a no deal". They won't bother to count all the 'remain parties' v 'leave parties'

Saying that I don't see how else people who want a second referendum should vote. 

Also i'm voting labour because I could never countenance voting lib dems or change and whilst I respect the greens immensely, I think the most important thing is not to split the progressive vote (although i'm also not totally convinced by the panacea of a second ref so can see why people who are would disagree with me)

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1 hour ago, Scott129 said:

I don't think this is how the media will portray it unfortunately. They'll see Brexit Party on 34% and Lib Dems/Labour on like 16% and say "wow look how many people want a no deal". They won't bother to count all the 'remain parties' v 'leave parties'

Saying that I don't see how else people who want a second referendum should vote. 

Also i'm voting labour because I could never countenance voting lib dems or change and whilst I respect the greens immensely, I think the most important thing is not to split the progressive vote (although i'm also not totally convinced by the panacea of a second ref so can see why people who are would disagree with me)

In your area (Manchester) a tactical vote has the best chance to switch a Conservative seat to Green.  Labour not likely to get more than 3 seats under the d'hondt scheme.  https://www.remainvoter.com/how-to-vote-north-west  

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5 hours ago, Scott129 said:

The media are only going to focus on the percentage of votes rather than the most MEPs so I don't see tactical voting having much of an effect. If Brexit Party win by as much as is predicted because the remain vote is split then it'll be portrayed as a leave victory regardless of the total number of meps

But that’s if we leave. And no one yet has a viable plan for actually doing that. In the meantime we are still electing people to represent us in the EU.

I’m actually baffled by Farage to be honest. Man spends two years vehemently opposed to a second referendum, then forms an entire new political party with the express intention of turning the EU elections into one.

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10 hours ago, frostypaw said:

There's a reason you've snipped that quote there.

The confrontational thing's been going for a long long time - the whole "WHY ISN'T HE OPPOSING IT" thing came from both hard-remainers and hard-leavers for reasons of desperation for a champion and target respectively - not any particular disliked politician's fan club. They were too busy cheering on whatever he was doing at the time no matter what.

The reason I snipped that quote is because that is what you said and that is what I replied to.

And fuck all about your later claim of saying something different. 

"Lately"  means recently, not a "long long time" ago.

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8 hours ago, timbrass said:

In your area (Manchester) a tactical vote has the best chance to switch a Conservative seat to Green.  Labour not likely to get more than 3 seats under the d'hondt scheme.  https://www.remainvoter.com/how-to-vote-north-west  

It doesn't help that https://www.remainunited.org/ says something different. Remain voter doesn't name sources - do you know what references they use?

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2 minutes ago, hfuhruhurr said:

It doesn't help that https://www.remainunited.org/ says something different. Remain voter doesn't name sources - do you know what references they use?

from looking at both and being aware that a party normally needs 20%+ of the vote to win a seat, I'd say that https://www.remainvoter.com is the better informed - it's trying to get lesser-supported remain parties a seat at the expense of a brexit party.

A bigger win for a better supported party is unlikely to change the seat allocations.

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5 hours ago, eFestivals said:

The reason I snipped that quote is because that is what you said and that is what I replied to.

And fuck all about your later claim of saying something different. 

"Lately"  means recently, not a "long long time" ago.

OK you swore and got a bit aggy so you win - it's all the Corbynista's fault and they started it. Whatever.

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There’s some quite tasty irony about these tactical voting systems cropping up because of the MEP voting system. It’s like the EU is undemocratic after all! 

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