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Shangri-La 2019


stuartbert two hats
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24 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

It doesn't have to be ALL good, nice people though. I think the vast majority of people at Glastonbury are and that should should be enough. 

I'm not taking it at all personally, I'm just not comfortable with the logic being used here. Not going to drag this on any further however. 

For argument's sake, maybe the vast majority are nice people at Glasto, but it only takes one person. I think you are right when you say you might be naive on this one if you think that an assault at a festival (it really doesn't matter which festival) is easily prevented by the victim confronting the abuser and calling upon kind strangers to intervene.

I don't really see where the flaw in the logic is. Everyone's already said it but just look at @chazwwe's post. There is a woman who feels vulnerable in busy places with lots of men, would appreciate a place to feel safe, and there is one. The logic is that simple. It's not creating a divided festival, it's one room!

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1 minute ago, dentalplan said:

For argument's sake, maybe the vast majority are nice people at Glasto, but it only takes one person. I think you are right when you say you might be naive on this one if you think that an assault at a festival (it really doesn't matter which festival) is easily prevented by the victim confronting the abuser and calling upon kind strangers to intervene.

 I don't really see where the flaw in the logic is. Everyone's already said it but just look at @chazwwe's post. There is a woman who feels vulnerable in busy places with lots of men, would appreciate a place to feel safe, and there is one. The logic is that simple. It's not creating a divided festival, it's one room!

She even said its not a place she will probably go to, its just nice to have in the back of her head that there is a place she CAN go to. Especially in the area that is the South East Corner. 

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Christ imagine being part of a group of people who are regularly marginalised for something as seemingly harmless as the gender they identify as being given a space amongst a progressive group of people where they have a full guarantee of a harassment free night. But what about the men!?!?

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Anyway I don't think there are enough big ticket late night acts here to significantly take away from other late night areas. Thank God block9 has expanded. 

Edited by Tuna
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2 hours ago, youngatheart said:

Being on the wrong side of 50 but with the mental age of a 17 yr old i will be spending alot of my time here once wife and kidz are settled for night ,,,he he..

Probably be the same. I keep telling the wife we’ll take turns on the early nights taking the little ‘un back to camp, she just side eyes me and says “rigggghhhht” ?

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4 hours ago, kingbadger said:

Lived experience mate. Blokes have never had to worry what would happen to them on a night out. Unfortunately that thought crosses most women's minds every time, including at Glastonbury. At the end of the day you can't assume a woman's opinion because you don't have that life experience.

I can remember being out in London a couple of years ago, met a couple of girls. Got chatting, got on like a house on fire, we ended up having a really good night out. One of them mentioned how nice it was to be out with a "gentleman" who wasn't trying to touch them up or hit on them. I laughed this off, thinking it was a joke. No shit, couple of minutes later some creep sidled up and without saying a word properly felt up this girl's arse. She looked at me and said "that's what I mean". Tried to deck the c**t but his mates pulled him away and scarpered. 

I don't think you're that guy mate, I just think you're like I was, naive to the unfortunate reality facing women in this day and age. It shouldn't happen but it does, and we should recognise that and try to deal with it. 

At the end of the day neither me nor you can speak for women and their experience, or what makes them feel safe. We're not the ones who have been victimised, marginalised, abused etc. Whilst you might not feel it's your battle, at least try to stand it's still a battle for a hell of a lot of women. 

Great post.

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7 hours ago, kingbadger said:

Lived experience mate. Blokes have never had to worry what would happen to them on a night out. Unfortunately that thought crosses most women's minds every time, including at Glastonbury. At the end of the day you can't assume a woman's opinion because you don't have that life experience.

I can remember being out in London a couple of years ago, met a couple of girls. Got chatting, got on like a house on fire, we ended up having a really good night out. One of them mentioned how nice it was to be out with a "gentleman" who wasn't trying to touch them up or hit on them. I laughed this off, thinking it was a joke. No shit, couple of minutes later some creep sidled up and without saying a word properly felt up this girl's arse. She looked at me and said "that's what I mean". Tried to deck the c**t but his mates pulled him away and scarpered. 

I don't think you're that guy mate, I just think you're like I was, naive to the unfortunate reality facing women in this day and age. It shouldn't happen but it does, and we should recognise that and try to deal with it. 

At the end of the day neither me nor you can speak for women and their experience, or what makes them feel safe. We're not the ones who have been victimised, marginalised, abused etc. Whilst you might not feel it's your battle, at least try to stand it's still a battle for a hell of a lot of women. 

Well put, I'm still out of upvotes unfortunately.

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8 hours ago, kingbadger said:

Lived experience mate. Blokes have never had to worry what would happen to them on a night out. Unfortunately that thought crosses most women's minds every time, including at Glastonbury. At the end of the day you can't assume a woman's opinion because you don't have that life experience.

I can remember being out in London a couple of years ago, met a couple of girls. Got chatting, got on like a house on fire, we ended up having a really good night out. One of them mentioned how nice it was to be out with a "gentleman" who wasn't trying to touch them up or hit on them. I laughed this off, thinking it was a joke. No shit, couple of minutes later some creep sidled up and without saying a word properly felt up this girl's arse. She looked at me and said "that's what I mean". Tried to deck the c**t but his mates pulled him away and scarpered. 

I don't think you're that guy mate, I just think you're like I was, naive to the unfortunate reality facing women in this day and age. It shouldn't happen but it does, and we should recognise that and try to deal with it. 

At the end of the day neither me nor you can speak for women and their experience, or what makes them feel safe. We're not the ones who have been victimised, marginalised, abused etc. Whilst you might not feel it's your battle, at least try to stand it's still a battle for a hell of a lot of women. 

Thank you for this. It's absolutely spot on. 

Glasto is probably the only place in the world I'm generally comfortable walking about on my own at night. But I'm still always on guard, I can't help it.

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44 minutes ago, sadimmock said:

I’m not sure that I understand what you mean here. Could you please expand? 

To me although the comment sounded sarcastic, I suspect it wasn't actually meant as such.  IDLES have a lot to say on the subject of toxic masculinity:

“What we wear, what we eat, what razor we use, high performance chewing gum, go faster shampoo, how we treat women, how we treat ourselves, how we die. I truly believe that masculinity has gone from an evolution of cultural praxis to a disease. I wanted to encourage a conversation about gender roles by writing this song.

http://diymag.com/2018/07/25/idles-new-song-samaritans-joy-as-an-act-of-resistance-video-watch

 

Also see:

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/8478133/idles-joy-as-an-act-of-resistance-interview

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33 minutes ago, barkley87 said:

Thank you for this. It's absolutely spot on. 

Glasto is probably the only place in the world I'm generally comfortable walking about on my own at night. But I'm still always on guard, I can't help it.

Same here! My boyfriend asked me what I would do if I woke up as a bloke and I told him I would go for a run and catch the sunrise. Never been brave enough to do that because I'm too afraid something would happen where I live. 

I feel comfortable at Glastonbury more so than any other festival but I am always cautious, it's just like an automatic response. 

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Feels like it's also worth pointing out than in this vast, sprawling festival we all live in for nearly a week this women only venue is a small stage in a corner of a predominantly late night only are which is driven by art and a majority of the festival might not even hear about. The stage, as well as being the positive safe space people have mentioned, is effectively an installation for us to have this conversation. I think it's great on both counts.

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1 minute ago, foolee said:

If Idles are playing as suggested on the Truth Stage at around 1am on Friday night do you think it'll be possible to get in after Frank Turners set on Avolon? 

yeah, that'll probably work. You're definitely in the right vicinity after FT finishes. I imagine there's going to be a significant amount of people on Friday evening doing Bragg at the Leftfield>Turner at the Avalon>Idles on the Tuth stage.

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27 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

To me although the comment sounded sarcastic, I suspect it wasn't actually meant as such.  IDLES have a lot to say on the subject of toxic masculinity:

“What we wear, what we eat, what razor we use, high performance chewing gum, go faster shampoo, how we treat women, how we treat ourselves, how we die. I truly believe that masculinity has gone from an evolution of cultural praxis to a disease. I wanted to encourage a conversation about gender roles by writing this song.

http://diymag.com/2018/07/25/idles-new-song-samaritans-joy-as-an-act-of-resistance-video-watch

 

Also see:

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/8478133/idles-joy-as-an-act-of-resistance-interview


Slaves 'It Wasn't Her Fault':

You can point the finger but she's not the one to blame
For chemical reactions that are starting in your brain

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10 hours ago, Gnomicide said:

If your first thought when seeing there is a female only venue isn't "fair enough" then somethings wrong with your mindset.

100% this. I'd only add a single apostrophe.

I saw 'female only' and thought two things: 'good', and 'such a shame it's come to this'.

Personally, I think the problem with objecting to females having their own space is that it presumes some kind of base-level gender parity in terms of quality of life, that doesn't exist. To my shame, it took me a while to come to accept this. Like most men, I wouldn't dream of being knowingly predatory, invasive or even casually sexist. It was easier to project my own standards of behaviour onto other men and default to scepticism at broad-brush generalisations about what it's like 'as a woman', or 'what men are like'. It felt insulting to be included in that group because neither I, nor the people I know, are guilty of acting in that way.

Until I realised it's not about me.

The voices of women sharing their experiences of living in our culture are consistent and can't be ignored away by naval-gazing. Problems don't disappear into non-existence because they've don't personally involve us. We're inter-related and responsible as a collective for the society we live in; complicit in the worst of our crimes because that's who we are. And only through understanding, empathy, and speaking out in support of the victimised will we ever hope to better ourselves.

So when a poster drops at Glastonbury and one stage in an area full of stages in a festival full of areas decides to give women a breather from the day to day bullshit they have to put up with, I think 'good', and 'such a shame it's come to this'. If I think anything else, it's about how I can personally improve things so we move towards a place where can all just enjoy everything.

 

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