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5G @ Glastonbury 2019


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On 7/3/2019 at 12:57 AM, incident said:

This is the one statement on this thread where you can truly be seen as authoritative.

 

 

On 7/3/2019 at 3:09 AM, frostypaw said:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/a-disconnect-between-cell-phone-fears-and-science/

That Devra Davis?

That you think 5G works like a laser is just spectacular. Mate this is why you were told it was worth paying attention in school - this is basic basic stuff, it should be ringing HUGE alarm bells as much as if someone told you it was all a lie and you could run your car cheaply on weak gravy or vegemite at a slight BHP loss. The only difference is you know a shade more about cars

 

On 7/3/2019 at 7:40 AM, Derek Reynolds said:

Cell phones - school? How old do you think I am? The pocket calculator hadn't been invented, and ball point pens were not allowed! But that never stopped me learning, and one thing that stands out is: it's a waste of time teaching pigs to sing.

I haven't had time to check out all the links you supplied as yet, but I did look at the cellular phones page of the American Cancer Society. I will be accused of 'cherry picking', but this statement stood out:

"It is not clear at this time that RF waves from cell phones cause harmful health effects in people, but studies now being done should give a clearer picture of the possible health effects in the future. Until then, there are several things that people who are concerned about RF waves can do to limit their exposure. "

Further from WHO ref:

" While an increased risk of brain tumors is not established, the increasing use of mobile phones and the lack of data for mobile phone use over time periods longer than 15 years warrant further research of mobile phone use and brain cancer risk. In particular, with the recent popularity of mobile phone use among younger people, and therefore a potentially longer lifetime of exposure, WHO has promoted further research on this group. Several studies investigating potential health effects in children and adolescents are underway. "

And from the EC:

" Conclusion The current database is inadequate for the purposes of the assessment of possible risks due to environmental exposure to RF, IF and ELF. "

Some of these statements are 17yrs old, others 9. Lots happen in nine years. The connect between a laser and 5G EMF beams is valid - they seek, and pin-point their targets. There is clearly a lack of long term effects and data therefrom.

Someone accused me of being a Troll. That is their opinion, but having read elsewhere of the 5G coverage at Glastonbury I thought it might be received with some sort of interest. Instead I got a volley of verbal abuse and outright denial on all counts. Hence pigs and singing.

Have a healthy life. (At least, try).

 

On 7/3/2019 at 8:15 AM, eFestivals said:

you don't understand the first thing about research, very obviously. :rolleyes: 

 

On 7/3/2019 at 8:22 AM, Derek Reynolds said:

So this is what - guesswork?

From one of the links supplied by Frostypaw.

The American Society for Reproductive Medicine

Result(s)

The comparisons of mean sperm count, motility, viability, and normal morphology among four different cell phone user groups were statistically significant. Mean sperm motility, viability, and normal morphology were significantly different in cell phone user groups within two sperm count groups. The laboratory values of the above four sperm parameters decreased in all four cell phone user groups as the duration of daily exposure to cell phones increased.

Conclusion(s)

Use of cell phones decrease the semen quality in men by decreasing the sperm count, motility, viability, and normal morphology. The decrease in sperm parameters was dependent on the duration of daily exposure to cell phones and independent of the initial semen quality.

 

On 7/3/2019 at 8:57 AM, Roger G Lewis said:

 

#onlyTwoGenders #ConquestofDough

 

 

On 7/3/2019 at 9:11 AM, eFestivals said:

tin-foil-hat_2000x.jpg?v=1542393503

 

On 7/3/2019 at 9:35 AM, tumbles said:

Just lock this topic or bin these goons off, they're just going to be tiresome before long. 

 

On 7/3/2019 at 9:38 AM, paulshane said:

agreed

 

On 7/3/2019 at 11:11 AM, Roger G Lewis said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/wifi-internet-family-dangerous-health/

Telegraph from 2015.

Public Health is a serious question and EMF radiation and health issues is nothing new. Why would 5G be less harmful? if it is great , but experts in the field say the short wavelengths involved are more damaging.
That Glastonbury Festival would associate with Extinction rebellion #WrongKindofGreen and corporatism of the whole event suggests that the degree of propaganda infecting what used to be popular culture is deeply troubling.

http://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/the-group-of-ten/

 

Extinction Rebellion Globalists linked to 5G Rollout

Gail Marie Bradbrook : COMPASSIONATE REVOLUTION

Links to BROADBAND STAKEHOLDERS GROUP

The Broadband Stakeholder Group has published a report on ‘Lowering barriers to 5G deployment‘. It outlines the challenges and solutions to deploying new mobile infrastructure necessary to meet the UK Government’s ambition to be a 5G leader.

The report – ‘Lowering barriers to 5G deployment’ – is the outcome of a study by Analysys Mason researching barriers to 5G deployment from both industry and local authority perspectives in the UK, identifying key challenges faced during the deployment process. The report aims to assist the UK Government in delivering its ambition to be a 5G leader by identifying and proposing solutions to current and potential barriers to network deployment.

Legal barriers, deployment issues and challenges with stakeholder engagement all have the potential to delay the rollout of 5G. Taken together and against a general background of uncertainty regarding the business case for denser 5G networks, these could also ultimately limit the deployment of 5G infrastructure.

OTHER LINKS INCLUDE : Dept OF Culture, SKY, Talk Talk VODAPHONE , WIRELSS INFRASTRUCTURE GROUP

https://steemit.com/news/@francesleader/from-occupy-to-extinction-rebellion-exposing-the-common-purpose

 

On 7/3/2019 at 11:15 AM, Roger G Lewis said:

 

On 7/3/2019 at 11:18 AM, frostypaw said:

But they don't.

 

Just the ranting drunken incoherent loons that would have no platform other than a park bench if they didn't have the internet to pretend to be proper.

 

Why can't you tell the difference? Do you like to feel special and as if you've been clever enough to resolve a great secret?

Someone had spent a lot of money on shiny anti-5G flyers to try and make it look serious, still just full of scare nonsense and it cost me some festival time throwing them in the recycling.

 

On 7/3/2019 at 11:22 AM, Roger G Lewis said:

Dr Graham Downing

Dr Graham Downing

Dr. Graham S. Downing is a consultant in Neuro-musculoskeletal & Functional Medicine. He graduated from King’s College London University where he trained in the clinical sciences and molecular biology and attended the Randall Institute as a research student whilst still under the Directorship of Dr Wilkins, Nobel prize winner for his co-discovery of DNA; and European Institute of Health and Medical Sciences, Surrey University where he received an MSc with a specialist area of research in psychoneuroimmunology in the clinical practice.

Dr. Downing was invited to read for a Ph.D at Oxford’s leading research institute, Sir William Dunn School of Pathology but decided on a clinical career instead. He is one of only two doctors in Europe that have received training at consultant level in diagnosis and treatment of internal medical disorders at the Texas Chiropractic College, USA; and advanced Wilderness medicine.

His specialist fields are neuro-musculoskeletal & functional Medicine (with a focus on fertility, endocrinology, infection and gastro-intestinal problems). He has produced science and clinical reports since February 1993 and medico-legal reports since April 2010 as an expert witness.

He is currently President and Director of Clinical Education for a European organisation that sets standards of clinical proficiency and trains healthcare providers, including medical doctors, chiropractors, osteopaths, physiotherapists, herbalists, homoeopaths, nutritionist, functional medicine doctors and other health disciplines to consultant level.

 

On 7/3/2019 at 11:30 AM, darkcamel said:

Don't be a tool dismissing people whose opinion you disagree with as loons. Government ministers, scientists and researchers have all expressed serious concerns about 5G and the lack of testing of the biological effects of it on the population. 

Brussel government, and Geneva and Vaud Switzerland have ALL halted 5G rollout over health concerns after power output from 5g exceeded their safety thresholds. Government ministers have said they would not let their citizens be used as guinea pigs.

Celine Fremault, Minister of the Government of the Brussels-Capital Region Responsible For Housing, Quality Of Life, Environment And Energy released the statement in an interview with L’Echo:“I cannot welcome such technology if the radiation standards, which must protect the citizen, are not respected, 5G or not. The people of Brussels are not guinea pigs whose health I can sell at a profit. We cannot leave anything to doubt."
See https://www.worldhealth.net/news/brussels-first-major-city-halt-5g-due-health-effects/
Dutch MPs have also called for a halt to 5G until the WHO has done more testing..GroenLinks is urging the Lower House in the Dutch parliament for an independent investigation by the Health Council into 5G radiation. Laura Bromet, member of parliament: “We still don’t know about the dangers to public health. Little research has been done into the effects of 5G. We need to take people’s concerns seriously and investigate this. ”

Dismiss them all as conspiracy theorists if you wish, but I would argue you are being extremely foolhardy. France has banned all WIFI from nursery schools over health concerns, as radiation penetrates childs skulls more easily. Dismiss them as conspiracy theorists if you will.

There is no scientific consensus as to whether 5G is safe or not. It has NOT been proven beyond any doubt to be safe. Government funded research often gives the answers their customers want. Many non industry funded research papers link wireless radiation to biological effects on cells. See https://ehtrust.org/science/research-on-wireless-health-effects/ Thats why hundreds of scientists have called on the EU to halt 5G rollout until more H&S testing has been done into the biological effects.Industry, unsuprisingly does not recognise wireless radiation can cause biological damage.. imagine the law suits! Major insurers will not insurer wireless device manufacturers against being sued for health problems. Interesting... Many scientific peer reviewed reports have indicated biological and DNA changes as a result of wireless, NON ionising radiation. See the 5G Appeal site, and the AUVA report https://www.jrseco.com/major-austrian-insurer-auva-finds-effects-of-cell-phones-on-dna-eeg-and-human-proteins/ or the EU Reflex study https://www.jrseco.com/eu-reflex-study-shows-dna-damage-caused-by-radiation-from-wireless-devices-and-mobile-phones/

 

On 7/3/2019 at 11:33 AM, EasyUserName said:

What is the point in this post, sorry?  It doesn't seem to say anything other than a short bio. 

 

On 7/3/2019 at 11:38 AM, eFestivals said:

i think facebook is frying more people's brains than mobiles are. :D

/goes off to buy more shares in Alcan :P 

 

On 7/3/2019 at 11:41 AM, Roger G Lewis said:

It is the background to a video of a talk given by Dr Graham Downing,
I find Downing a compelling expert lecturer. I do not agree with all of his conclusions for instance I am a programmer in the field of the internet of things? I acknowledge that IOT can be used for security state ends but can also be used for the Circular Economy and Distrbuted direct democracy aims ( my own field of endeavor, particularly on WEB 3 IPFS.)
I am not making any truth claims regarding 5 g or even about the bona-fides of Glastonbury as a much loved institution of the Liberal elites.
I do though think Dr Graham Downing has good intentions and some expertise on these matters as such I pay close attention to what he says, even in my own field IOT , where I have points of disagreement with him.

 

On 7/3/2019 at 11:48 AM, Roger G Lewis said:

Hi Early User Name, I do not know if Dr Downing has published papers in this field he has I believe done so in his own clinical fields.
My own interests are limited as is my time to Web 3 development on IPFS and to Monetary reform research, ( Crypto Currencies, Web 3, And so forth , tend to come as a package) .
I live in Sweden , and here there is a much more empirical approach to public health and much of what has got under the low bar in the UK and USA even the EU does not get past the Swedish apparatus , Swedes love statistics and empirical data, it can be a real pain in the Ass but on questions of public house its difficult to fault it, even for an old Hippy Anarchist such as yours truly.


 

 

On 7/3/2019 at 11:53 AM, frostypaw said:

I'm not.

I'm dismissing people who've based their opinion on absolute nonsense and who have demonstrated no understanding of the scientific method or how to do research as loons, and I'm providing you with extensive text that explains why as quoted above.

Attempting to pretend I'm doing something else entirely also shows how genuine and trustworthy this argument is.

Eg. You state "Dr Graham Downing" and his qualifications as if we should therefore listen to him.

He's this same Dr Graham Downing who's a lunatic anti-vax nut claiming it causes autism. Very much a quack

 

 

 

You're trying to argue that power steering will give us cancer after claiming cars run on gravy and seatbelts are made from unicorn tears harvested by torturing them because this guy with a Dr before his name said so on his Podcast "Dr to the Stars"

And you've been told. But you're carrying on - so why should we trust you?

 

On 7/3/2019 at 12:09 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

A general comment As in previous years, a number of studies had to be excluded from the evaluation due to poor quality and missing information. Most of the excluded studies provided no, or incomplete, dosimetric information, or failed to include sham-exposed controls. Without dosimetric information, any effects cannot be related to an exposure level and without a sham-exposed group it is not possible to attribute any effects to the actual EMF exposure. It is very unfortunate that investigators are not adhering to international standards concerning the reporting of their studies, and that journals often do not have an adequate peer-review system that corrects such omissions. There can also be a risk that doing bad quality studies and making people afraid may have some impact on their health and well-being and is another reason why only studies with high quality protocols should be funded, performed and published. Articles not taken into account in this report, due to insufficient scientific quality, are listed in an Appendix together with the reasons for their dismissal.

 

The Latest report 
https://www.stralsakerhetsmyndigheten.se/contentassets/f34de8333acd4ac2b22a9b072d9b33f9/201809-recent-research-on-emf-and-health-risk

Web site of Swedish Metrological Society-

https://www.stralsakerhetsmyndigheten.se/en/publications/reports/radiation-protection/2018/201809/?_t_id=1B2M2Y8AsgTpgAmY7PhCfg%3d%3d&_t_q=EMF&_t_tags=language%3astandard%2csiteid%3a2b6b237a-3058-4c02-b612-7778e2139d30&_t_ip=78.69.176.146&_t_hit.id=SSM_Models_Pages_PublicationPage/_cbbe65da-3a02-4b03-8529-815da3d2b540_en&_t_hit.pos=1

 

For funny story on Metrology see Sheldrakes talk on the science delusion. it starts at 10 miutes its about Big G and not 5g, just to be clear.
 

 

4.1.4. Mitochondrial DNA Several parameters related to the stability of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) were examined by Sun et al. (2017) in human-derived promyelocytic leukaemia (HL-60) cells. Cultures were exposed for 4 53 h/day for five consecutive days to 900 MHz, continuous wave, at 120 µW/cm2 power intensity corresponding to a calculated average SAR of 2.5 × 10−4 W/kg. Following the exposure, cells were collected after 30 min, 4 h or 24 h. The damage to mtDNA mediated through reactive oxygen species (ROS) formation, the effect on 8-hydroxy-2-dexoyguanosine (8-OHdG, a biomarker for oxidative damage), and on the mitochondrial synthesis of adenosine triphosphate (ATP) were measured. The results of three independent experiments indicated that ROS formation was increased at 30 min and 4 h (p < 0.05), but not at 24 h after RF exposure, while 8-OHdG levels were decreased for all the exposure durations investigated (p<0.05). Moreover, the mitochondrial transcription factor A, mtDNA polymerase gamma, mtDNA transcripts and mtDNA copy number was significantly decreased in exposed cells compared to sham exposed ones (p<0.05). In addition, a significant decrease in ATP levels was also detected in RF-exposed cells (p<0.05). Treatment of the cells with melatonin, a wellknown free radical scavenger, for 4 h before RF exposure was able to attenuate mitochondrial dysfunction as well as mtDNA damage. Overall, the results from this investigation suggest that RF exposure affects ROS production leading to mitochondrial dysfunctions. The results refer to a cancer cell line. It should be interesting to confirm these findings on healthy cells under several exposure conditions in terms of frequency, modulation and SAR values.

 

What has been observed? Overall, the epidemiological data show some weak indications for an association between prolonged and intensive use of a mobile phone and an increased incidence of gliomas (brain tumours) and acoustic neuromas (tumours on the acoustic nerve). In some cases these findings lack biological plausibility. Some studies showed for instance increased risks after a short period of use, which is not compatible with the long period of development of the tumours in question. In other studies an increase in the number of tumours was not observed with the highest exposure level, but only with lower ones. This is also in contrast to expectations. Furthermore, data on the incidence of the relevant tumours from the Netherlands and other countries worldwide do not provide support for a causal relationship. For meningiomas, pituitary tumours and parotid gland tumours, no indications for an association with mobile phone use have been observed. 85 The animal studies do not provide evidence for induction of tumours by exposure to radiofrequency electromagnetic fields. Such exposure may have a promoting effect on the development of tumours, but the indications for this are weak and have been observed in only one, very specific, animal model.

 

Is there reason to limit exposure? From the conclusions formulated above it follows that the value of any measures to reduce exposure is unclear. Nevertheless, the Committee would like to repeat its previous suggestion: apply the ALARA principle. This means that exposures should be As Low As Reasonably Achievable. There is, for instance, no need for any device to transmit with greater power or for a longer period of time than needed for an adequate connection. This is fully in line with the suggestions from the Health Council’s advisory report Prudent precaution. Is more research necessary? There is still very limited information on really long-term effects in humans. Some epidemiological studies have follow-up times of more than 13 years, but with generally few subjects in the highest exposure categories. The latency times for development of the relevant tumours are most likely longer. The Committee therefore considers it important to continue the ongoing cohort studies evaluating the health effects of mobile phone use, in order to provide more conclusive human evidence. The exposure characterization in all currently available studies is very poor. It is therefore very important that ongoing and future studies incorporate more accurate and objective assessment of RF exposure. This is even more important since personal exposure to RF continues to change due to evolving patterns of use and new mobile telecommunication devices. 5.2. The 2016 ANSES Recommendations on exposure to radiofrequency waves. Following a request by the Ministries of Health, Ecology and Consumer Affairs, ANSES conducted an expert assessment on the specific impact of radiofrequency waves on children. The conclusions of this assessment were published in July 2016. Recommendations of the Agency All of the potential health effects of radiofrequency waves, both carcinogenic and otherwise, were studied and their levels of proof classified using a method based on that used by the WHO's International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC). The conclusions of the risk assessment published in 2013 do not show any proven health effects. Certain publications do however show a possible increase in the long-term risk of brain tumours for intensive users of mobile telephones.

 

Appendix of excluded studies.

Appendix: Studies excluded from analysis Articles were identified in relevant scientific literature data bases such as PubMed as well as in the specialized database EMF Portal. Further, reference lists of articles were screened for relevant papers. Several studies had to be excluded from further analysis as they did not fulfil quality criteria. In this Appendix, these studies5 are listed and the reasons for exclusion are indicated. The list is divided into cell studies, animal studies, human studies and epidemiological studies.

see at page 99.

 

On 7/3/2019 at 12:24 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/bem.22165

This is one of the excluded papers, excluded from the swedish report becuase.
Roggeveen et al. (2015a), Roggeveen et al. (2015b) single-blind experiments, no within subject control of time-of-day (experiments were carried out between 9 am and 5 pm), no detailed dosimetric characterisation of exposure (use of a 3G smartphone with SAR information according to the manual: 0.69 W/kg), no clear sham exposure control condition (one of the four consecutive conditions always was a real exposure – “dialling” – condition). There is no information on the control of interference exposure system and recording device (EEG and “Radiation” were recorded simultaneously). Experiments were performed in a nonshielded room. EEG was recorded with shielded electrodes (no specification on how shielding of electrodes was achieved), no information on the reference for EEG recordings (linked mastoids or contralateral ear).
 

Abstract

By now, the neurophysiological effect of electromagnetic field (EMF) exposure and its underlying regulating mechanisms are not well manifested. In this study, we aimed to investigate whether acute long‐term evolution (LTE) EMF exposure could modulate brain functional connectivity using regional homogeneity (ReHo) method and seed‐based analysis on resting‐state functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI). We performed the LTE‐EMF exposure experiment and acquired the resting‐state brain activities before and after EMF exposure. Then we applied ReHo index to characterize the localized functional connectivity and seed‐based method to evaluate the inter‐regional functional connectivity. Statistical comparisons were conducted to identify the possible evidence of brain functional connectivity modulation induced by the acute LTE‐EMF exposure. We found that the acute LTE‐EMF exposure modulated localized intra‐regional connectivity (p < 0.05, AlphaSim corrected, voxel size ≥ 18) and inter‐regional connectivity in some brain regions (p < 0.05, AlphaSim corrected, voxel size ≥ 18). Our results may indicate that the approaches relying on network‐level inferences could provide deeper insight into the acute effect on human functional activity induced by LTE‐EMF exposure. Bioelectromagnetics. 40:42–51, 2019. © 2018 Wiley Periodicals, Inc.

 

Its obviously a massive field of study and one in which Bump+er stickers simply will not do, This is though by no means a settled question. 

 

On 7/3/2019 at 12:32 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

https://ehtrust.org/wp-content/uploads/Scientist-5G-appeal-2017.pdf

 

Scientists warn of potential serious health effects of 5G September 13, 2017 We the undersigned, more than 180 scientists and doctors from 35 countries, recommend a moratorium on the roll-out of the fifth generation, 5G, for telecommunication until potential hazards for human health and the environment have been fully investigated by scientists independent from industry. 5G will substantially increase exposure to radiofrequency electromagnetic fields (RF-EMF) on top of the 2G, 3G, 4G, Wi-Fi, etc. for telecommunications already in place. RF-EMF has been proven to be harmful for humans and the environment. (Note: Blue links below are references.)

 

Regarding the Conspiracy Theory Snobs. I give you Complots of Mischief.

https://longhairedmusings.wordpress.com/2017/08/17/complots-of-mischief-charles-pidgen-conspiracy-snobbery/

Complots Of Mischief, Charles Pidgen. Conspiracy Snobbery.

 rogerglewis  Uncategorized  August 17, 2017 4 Minutes
Lance De Haven and Charles Pidgen, the next time some intellectual snob dis´s your suggestion that not all that people learn from History Books or NewsPapers is the truth, point them at these two gentlemen.

 

https://philpapers.org/archive/PIGCOM.pdf

Let us start with History. In the electronic edition of the Collected Works and Correspondence of David Hume39, the word ‘conspiracy’ occurs 191 times (a), the word  ‘conspiracies’, 45 times, the word ‘conspirators’, 70 times, ‘conspirator’, 12 times, ‘conspired’, twice, ‘conspire’, 11 times, ‘conspired’, 23 times, ‘conspird’ (a misspelling of ‘conspired’), twice, ‘conspiring’, 8 times, ‘plot’ 94 times, ‘plots’, 9 times, ‘plotted’ twice, and ‘ploter’ (a rather amusing variant of ‘plotter’), three times. Concentrating on the word ‘conspiracy’, about three come from editors or correspondents such as Lady Hervey, and about ten concern the crazy theory, hatched in the paranoid brain of Jean-Jacques Rousseau, that ‘d’Alembert, Horace Walpole, and [Hume had] entered into a Conspiracy against him to lead him into England, and ruin him, by settling him in a most commodious and agreeable Manner, and by doubling his Income’40. There are four casual uses of ‘conspiracy’ in the Essays and The Natural History of Religion, in which Hume alludes to a historical conspiracy before going on to make some other historical, sociological or philosophical point. For example: ‘That bloody debauchee [the Emperor Commodus] being murdered by a conspiracy suddenly formed between his wench and her gallant, who happened at that time to be Praetorian Praefect; these immediately deliberated about choosing a master to human kind ….’ 41 There are several occurrences of ‘conspiracy’ in Hume’s letters to his fellow historian, William Robertson, in which he discusses (on the basis of state papers, intercepted correspondence and the like) the complicity of Mary, Queen of Scots in various conspiracies against her husband, Lord Darnley, her cousin, Elizabeth I and her son, James VI: ‘I am afraid, that you, as well as myself, have drawn Mary’s character with too great softenings. She was undoubtedly a violent woman at all times. You will see in Murden proofs of the utmost rancour against her innocent, good-natured, dutiful son. She certainly disinherited him. What think you of a conspiracy for kidnapping him, and delivering him a prisoner to the King of Spain, never to recover his liberty till he should turn Catholic?’ 42 However, the vast bulk of the uses of ‘conspiracy’ occur in Hume’s six volume History of England, long regarded as a standard work And in most of these uses Hume is simply recounting in a matter-of –fact way the conspiracies he finds in his sources: ‘A secret conspiracy was entered into to perpetrate in one day a general massacre of the Normans, like that which had formerly been executed upon the Danes..’ (History, vol. 1, p. 195); ‘A conspiracy of his [that is, William II’s] own barons, which was detected at this time, appeared a 40 Greig ed. (1932b) The Letters of David Hume, vol. 2, Letter 358 to Suard, p. 103. 41 Hume David (1985) Essays, Moral Political and Literary, ed. Eugene F. Miller, Indianapolis, Liberty Fund, p. 483, ‘Of the Original Contract’. 42 Greig ed. (1932a) The Letters of David Hume, vol. 1, Letter 162 to Robertson, p. 229

 

 

On 7/3/2019 at 12:35 PM, Gnomicide said:

'Ere, Rog... no-one's gonna read that much cut and paste shite.

 

On 7/3/2019 at 12:58 PM, eFestivals said:

even he hasn't read all that shit. He's found something which agrees with him and that's good enough. ;) 

 

On 7/3/2019 at 1:20 PM, frostypaw said:

Cheers Neil! Makes sense.

But yeah this is just spam now fresh account Rog, you're not actually reading or responding to people anymore.

I love all this BANNED SECRET MATERIAL THAT NOBODY WANTS YOU TO SEE that's freely available to anyone with youtube and google.

"more than 180 scientists and doctors from 35 countries"

You know what I reckon there are a lot more than 5 scientists and doctors per country. That's a terrible terrible thing to bring up for your case.

 

On 7/4/2019 at 12:32 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

See my profile @frostypaw. I responded to the comments about not commenting, I had filled my quote yesterday.

First They came for the Skeptics?
https://twitter.com/PMotels/status/1146725112177156096
 

 

On 7/4/2019 at 1:01 PM, tumbles said:

A Tommy Robbinson sympathiser.  Lovely.

 

 

On 7/4/2019 at 1:07 PM, Magma said:

Did you join the forum specifically to post this?

This is some organised trolling...

 

On 7/4/2019 at 1:10 PM, bombfrog said:

 

Tommy Robinson love?

Well, this has gone up a gear. You need help mate, serious psychiatric help.

 

On 7/4/2019 at 1:13 PM, Magma said:

That's the best bit. As if it's not actually harder to avoid this conspiracy crap than get bombarded with it whenever you follow a recommendation on YouTube, read a forum or flick through Facebook. It's everywhere you look and always available on major platforms.

It's like NME readers having a go at your music taste for being too mainstream. ?

 

On 7/4/2019 at 1:21 PM, eFestivals said:

no, if 5g is dangerous, its coming for everyone, there's no escape from it (maybe with a tin foil hat?).

And 'everyone' would include millions of engineers around the world, happily killing themselves.

Think about it. :) 

 

On 7/4/2019 at 1:29 PM, clarkete said:

Indeed, what's this c*nt doing here at all, surely just to troll?

The provocative comments about the festival, Extinction Rebellion or other posters "I am not making any truth claims regarding 5 g or even about the bona-fides of Glastonbury as a much loved institution of the Liberal elites."

Shove yer TFH pal and I hope it bloody hurts :D 

 

On 7/4/2019 at 4:22 PM, frostypaw said:

Not really here buddy. you're rehashing arguments that have been answered already, ignoring everyone else other than insulting them as idiots if they actually understand what they're talking about rather than just getting scared and re-sharing your already debunked tripe.

All this stuff you're passing about relies on you not having paid attention in school. What results did you get in whatever Sweden has instead of GCSEs in Physics and Biology and Maths?

Did you do a degree in any of those subjects?

Do we really need to conduct experiments for you to show you cars don't run on gravy? Or can we just laugh and say no.

 

On 7/4/2019 at 4:26 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

 

 

 

 

 

On 7/4/2019 at 5:10 PM, The Nal said:

The alt right social media addicts just roll it all into one. 5G, Soros, racism, immigrants, Brexit etc. To save time I suppose. Have a scroll through this made scones twitter account. Quite insane.

 

On 7/4/2019 at 5:10 PM, eFestivals said:

The fuckwits go for all of the made-up facts. That's how fucking stupid these people are. 

 

On 7/4/2019 at 5:13 PM, eFestivals said:

9/11-ism. Whatever happened to that, eh? :lol: 

If you watch film from 1975 of the first referendum about the EEC (as it was then), you'll hear the antis claiming that the EEC is failing and that's why we shouldn't join.

How right they are, eh? :lol: 

 

On 7/4/2019 at 5:54 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

https://www.theweek.co.uk/94464/article-13-are-we-heading-for-mass-internet-censorship

Article 13 is the cause for concern https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47239600

 

In the UK the cause for concern is the on line harms act.
One of the problems with both pieces of legislation is that its terms and definitions are imprecisely drawn and as such can be "interpreted" to mean almost anything. 

Regarding Brexit, thats something of a curates egg here are my technical posts regarding Brexit which is really something which is determined by how we treat our own democratic mandate in the UK but also how Geo political allegiances play out and whether President Trump is re-elected .
https://longhairedmusings.wordpress.com/2017/02/19/meet-the-fuggers-brexit-the-euro-and-clueless-elites/

 

 

 

 

It is not hard to find what I think on my blog I post links to all the information upon which I base my own views. I am always very open to the likelihood of being wrong about things and of the likelihood that an adjustment of view will usually be required as new information emerges.

My Main Writing focuses on the Monetary system and issues of direct democracy and also Climatology and Atmospheric Physics and Ocean Chemistry. 

 

 

 

 

On 7/4/2019 at 6:09 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

That is then fine and dandy for those people, for myself, my own knitting will suffice.

 

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6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

And if you did balanced analysis (you don't) you should also ask what is achieved by leaving it open.

Are the facts that people are posting here influencing your opinions? Nope.

Are you saying anything worthwhile? Nope, just fact-free bollocks. You might as well be ranting about how we're about to be attacked by aliens, because there's the same basis for that fear - nowt.

 

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On 7/4/2019 at 6:19 PM, eFestivals said:

so no "EU Web censorship", just your wild imagination and you following fact-free morons on twitter then.

Glad we've sorted that one out, at least. 

Any other wacky ideas you're following that I can help you out with? I suspect there is. :) 

 

On 7/4/2019 at 6:33 PM, eFestivals said:

You share the opinion of the tin-foil-hat brigade, i know.

You're concerned about non-existent EU censorship, but you're not concerned about spreading harmful fact-free bollocks.

Isn't it great that you've got your priorities right? :D 

 

On 7/4/2019 at 6:57 PM, mcshed said:

Roger why on Earth are you still here? The festival is over so there is no more 5G in Pilton, there won't be again until next June by which point every single major city in the UK will be covered. If you must argue about this stuff isn't there a better place to do it?

 

On 7/4/2019 at 7:12 PM, uscore said:

Of all the stuff you've posted, I think this is the thing I believe the least.

 

On 7/4/2019 at 7:26 PM, bombfrog said:

Nutters gonna nut.

 

On 7/4/2019 at 7:37 PM, tumbles said:

New for Glastonbury 2020 - the rightfield tent

 

On 7/4/2019 at 7:39 PM, tumbles said:

..and yet when I mentioned that I have 7 years of academic knowledge on radio, microwave and radar technologies I was apparently wrong to inform people about the negligible effects of non ionising radiation ?

 

On 7/4/2019 at 8:26 PM, frostypaw said:

I think you'll find this guy with no qualifications but lots of youtube links knows better buddy. You need the red pill!

 

On 7/4/2019 at 9:38 PM, frostypaw said:

What do you reckon the chances are that having had us all bathed in 5G for 5 days or so without our brain egg things frying or turning into lizards they'll accept maybe they've got this wrong?

Or will they just claim it takes months of exposure or some other made up nonsense that now they're magically sure of despite not mentioning it before something showed their previous nonsense up

 

On 7/4/2019 at 11:17 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

Well that sets my mind at rest, thanks, its been an education.

I can rest easy tonight knowing you have all the bases covered and that Theresa May, Mark Sedfield and Olly Robinson will keep the sterling work up whilst we wait for Boris or Jeremy to take over.
 

Its always warming to find such open minded tolerance in the bosom of my fellow socialist brothers and sisters, Makes you proud so it does.
 

 

 

On 7/5/2019 at 7:38 AM, Roger G Lewis said:

The States Guide to Trolling the Web, GCHQ and NSA 101

 

 

https://www.bitchute.com/video/93bBrBn5Qcdz/

 

 

 

 

 

So long and thanks for all the fish.

 

On 7/5/2019 at 7:56 AM, eFestivals said:

oh look, it's another one of those fact-free tweets. :) 

Want to tell us all about that "EU military unification"?

And also, perhaps you could explain how-come you don't consider NATO to be 'military unification' when NATO is far-tighter than anything the EU have talked about doing (but haven't done).

 

On 7/5/2019 at 8:00 AM, Roger G Lewis said:

oh, so you're another of these 'socialists' who think racist hateful Fake Tommy is a god...?

No not at all , I think Tommy is a useful idiot in many repsects, On the problem with wahabi salifism though he does have a point and has reaped the establishments wrath because of his making the point effectively.

 

Regarding 5g, the age old question is Que Bono, who benefits? It is not necessary for the internet of things but has uses in surveillance security mapping in real time. another interesting one is Fracking? or the tidal barrage project in Swansea bay. Whose priorities are being served by 5G is an interesting question, Who's do you think the 5g roll out serves and similarly those other projects.

 

 

On 7/5/2019 at 8:09 AM, eFestivals said:

Fake Tommy claims all Muslims are the same dangerous just because they're Muslims. :rolleyes: 

Ultimately the customer. :rolleyes: 

Because they'll be no 5g roll-out if the customer doesn't want it. Corporations invest money on roll-outs to get a return.

It doesn't need a conspiracy for us customers to be mugs for the new and shiny - and everything of our society is built on that basis.

You might as well be asking "Newton's theory of gravity, who does it serve"?

 

On 7/5/2019 at 8:11 AM, eFestivals said:

There is no "EU military unification".

I pointed out the fact-free at headline level, which proves there's no truth to be found by delving deeper. :rolleyes: 

 

On 7/5/2019 at 11:07 AM, frostypaw said:

If you look at the rate this guy posts here, posts on twitter and posts blogs does anyone actually think he's entirely real?

"has uses in surveillance security mapping in real time"

Is particularly special - the suggested conspiracy is that you need a certain speed of wifi to be able to use your phone's camera/microphone to 3d map your surroundings to spy on you.

It's one of those concepts that's so cripplingly bonkers and silly you know anyone who repeats it is already so far off the deep end they need rehabilitation and education, not just pointing out they're wrong.

This isn't a real thing. These are automated attempts to recruit more into the woo-pool after finding a site that looked like it might have suitable targets.

 

On 7/5/2019 at 4:18 PM, paulshane said:

there were lots of other posters by the same people dotted about the site, a Sting 'tantric sex' one and some others I totally can't remember :)

egg.jpg

 

On 7/5/2019 at 5:14 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

Hold on there frosty 'I'm being the conspiracy nut around here .
 

 

So who appointed you as the thought crime policeman then?

 

On 7/5/2019 at 5:36 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

 

It will be interesting to read the full judgement when it is released. Also to see what appeal might follow.

 

 

On 7/5/2019 at 5:51 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

Frosty, is that the royal us? It matters not a jot to me what you or (Us), The Royal we or anyone else Thinks or says. I joined an interesting discussion regarding 5G and some people , yourself included have decided that is a sign of Thought crime, tin foil hattery and general weak mindedness.
Arguments against the well documented and linked too material under my own comments outline the information upon which I have formed whatever views I might hold on these subjects, That you may or may not hold a different view to me, troubles me not at all. That you feel troubled by what you consider my wrong think is a shame for you, we or us  but is  of no concern to me.

 

 

On 7/6/2019 at 8:07 AM, Roger G Lewis said:

Frosty, What you term a full rebuttal is perhaps your opinion , others may find that what you have expressed is a different opinion and no more or less than that.

Regarding promptness of responses and sensitivity. Good manners determines that an acknowledgement should follow where requested where replies have obviously crossed in the post ( so to speak) a response would be a matter of taste or common sense. To expect such an acknowledgement immediately after you have shared your pearls of wisdom is perhaps expecting a little to much, and Sometimes no response would be expected or appropriate. For instance I am not expecting any response to this post, I do not require a response but you might choose to respond, that is your choice.

Regarding sensitivities, I can assure you no feathers have been ruffled or Ires have risen in this part of rural Sweden which I choose to call home.

Have a wonderful weekend,

Roger ( Russian Automated Bot, Proud wearer of a tin foil hat and general pedantic nut-job and thought criminal.)

 

On 7/6/2019 at 8:14 AM, Roger G Lewis said:

I live in Sweden, we are not members of NATO. Actually I am very bothered by NATO , I think it is a Solution looking for its own problems, a Turkey making up un necessary Christmas's as it were.

https://longhairedmusings.wordpress.com/2018/05/17/nato-trump-present-geo-political-tensions-sweden-the-swedes-finland-the-finns-the-scandics-and-the-ghost-of-olof-palme/

 

Nato, Trump Present Geo Political Tensions . Sweden , The Swedes, Finland the Finns The Scandics and the Ghost of Olof Palme?

 

I Live in Sweden, I visited Finland earlier this year Naturally I have Swedish, Finnish, Norwegian and Danish Friends.
Sweden and Finland have a Joint Treaty whereby each would only enter NATO is the Other also does, that decision would require a referendum in both countries,
The Position is explained very well in this Video.

 

 

 

 

On 7/6/2019 at 8:15 AM, eFestivals said:

just because you have an opinion doesn't give your opinion any validity. :rolleyes: 

Being right requires that the facts back up your opinion. Do they? Do they fuck. 

Frosty is pointing out that you run away from the facts.

I've challenged you on the facts, and you've admitted one of your facts is bullshit tho with another you've trying stringing it out with more of your fact-free idiot opinions.

 

 

On 7/6/2019 at 8:17 AM, eFestivals said:

fair enough, but your fellow tin-foil-hatters don't have an issue with NATO. They think it's a glorious thing.

Meanwhile, the EU army bollocks you're spouting is just bollocks.

And surely you know that Sweden has a veto that can ensure it never happens?

 

On 7/6/2019 at 8:48 AM, Roger G Lewis said:

Facts, Indeed those Stubborn things facts,

https://longhairedmusings.wordpress.com/2017/05/04/authentic-discourses-on-decisions-to-act/

 

Authentic Discourses on Decisions to Act.
A golden Rule in folklores Canon
holds what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the Gander
do unto others that which to you would be done
thus applied in discussion, we should always avoid slander.
Leave at the first introduction
the habits of Authority and induction
When those listening seem deaf to what you tell
refrain if you please from poisoning the well
if your working hypothesis requires certitude
refrain from tailoring cloth that renders the emperor nude
If to your point, you wish others to allude
refrain from a hypocritical sneering attitude.
When your correspondent appeals to evidence
consider their sources, were they well meant?
In all matters, skepticism will serve you with equivalence
and always remember to mistrust the Government.
“man müsse das Volk stets in Armuth erhalten, damit es gehorsam bleibe.”(2)
R.Lewis 2017.

 

On 7/6/2019 at 8:49 AM, Roger G Lewis said:

 

 

On 7/6/2019 at 9:03 AM, Roger G Lewis said:

One mans Fish is another mans poisson.

 

On 7/6/2019 at 11:50 AM, Roger G Lewis said:

A review of this rather long exchange between several parties here would reveal to an interested observer that engagement and polite discourse has emanated from the quarter ( Yours Truly), that has been variously described as, A tin foil hatter, people like you, spouter of bollocks and other pejoratives.
In remaining pleasant and using humour I have sought to keep a dialogue open without responding to the rather un welcoming and censorious attitude of the In group here, (including you if I may say Frosty, old chap). which clearly exists with the Regular participants here , those with post counts in the 1000's or indeed 10's of thousands.

I must here point out that I have no intention of engaging to the extent that the more dedicated posters here do, no offence but, I do have things to do upon which I place a higher priority..


Exchanging memes and posting bumper snickered aphorisms seems to me to be a less than serious way to address matters arising about the potential health effects of Micro Wave radiation and wider aspects of surveillance state over reach through the internet of things.

I am for my part perfectly happy with what I have posted and what I have said in the engagement we have had here such as it is. I can only speak for myself but I am happy that I have been given the opportunity to comment without censorship and although an early call was made to close down this discussion the moderators saw fit to keep it open, for which I applaud them.

It is for each of us to take away whatever we wish from this exchange, I take away a positive feeling and I am grateful to concerns raised and reminders given that all information should be checked , rechecked and offered as much critical perspective as possible.

 

Regarding the technical aspects of all of the questions, I would only add that a discussion thread in even such an august corner of the inter webs as this is not the place to take these matters up, that would be at open public meetings and planning committees and other institutional fora where the powers exist to bring about political action and inquiry. I for myself am sufficiently motivated that should our local commune , here in Sweden our councils are called communes as in France, then I would make appropriate representations including supporting evidence. This Government Funded Swedish web site which I linked to earlier tends to suggest that here in Sweden the finer points of detail and proper oversight of the different aspects, specifications and operating characteristics would be appropriate to the areas the systems were being deployed in.

 

https://www.stralsakerhetsmyndigheten.se/en/publications/reports/radiation-protection/2019/201908/

 

On 7/6/2019 at 12:05 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

What I am saying is what I have said, not what you are tyring to claim that I said , or did. The written Record here in the full thread should anyone be sad enough, motivated enough or even amused enough to go back through what I have Said as commentary to that which I have linked to some of which I have written oin my own blog and other things which I have linked to on my Twitter account .
Now Mr Frosty, forgive me but I am going to enjoy the sunshine , a happy side effect of which is that you as all froist are far from my mind when the temperature rises.

The suin has got its hat on, hip hip hooray.

 

 

On 7/6/2019 at 2:49 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

Deanlol,

Why is it recommended to hold phones away from your ear, using hands free or an ear piece and micro phone.
Are you aware of just how little is known scientifically about Magnetism, electron magnetism and indeed the world of sub atomic particles?

You say read a text book , I am more than happy to read scientific papers, and indeed text books, I regularly follow on line scientific courses

such as this one which I completed several years ago

.

 

This Talk by Eric Dollard is also well worth the three plus hours time I have watched it probaly six or seven times over the years.

This is an annual study produced on the field in Sweden.

https://www.stralsakerhetsmyndigheten.se/contentassets/ea182ee131d049f1b3b1140dd0fbc0f8/201908-recent-research-on-emf-and-health-risk-thirteenth-report-from-ssms-scientific-council-on-electromagnetic-fields-2018.pdf

Deanol, your reasoning of Understand how(a) works and then outcome (b) will prove to be a silly worry isn't working for me I'm afraid.

A radio( a ) transmitting at or between (x, x-y)  frequencies with body( n )exposed for time period( t ) at distance (m) would have a probability (P) of zero effect then fair enough , one needs to be precise with ones definitions, boundary conditions and measurement tolerances.

 

 

On 7/7/2019 at 12:25 AM, frostypaw said:

He's way above you with his grade school explanation of how to construct a probability expression, that showed you.

dunningkruger.jpg

 

On 7/7/2019 at 7:11 AM, Roger G Lewis said:

I am afraid that the low level of information is coming from your sub par level of argumentation Frosty,

As a Keen student myself of Arthur Schopenhauer , I refer you to his Art of being right.(art of controversy)
 

Your tireless and less than adept adoption of strategem. xiv.

akin to the fallacy non causae ut causae.

http://coolhaus.de/art-of-controversy/

 

On 7/7/2019 at 7:27 AM, Roger G Lewis said:

Tumbles, Are you saying I have not engaged with you? 

I thought earlier in the thread that claim was made regarding Dereck?

Your own study of Radio communication and Electrical Engineering, or which ever field it was you studied is of course of interest . The specific questions are actually to do with two things.

1. The Extent of potential harm to organic based life ( plants and Mamals/ Insects) through exposure to EMF, radiation .

2. The desirability of 5g regarding consumer experience and future of the Internet of things.

Point 1 relates to what is an acceptable level of exposure and is an area in which it is admitted that very little research has been done and the  The Swedish Radiation Safety Authority  https://www.stralsakerhetsmyndigheten.se/en/about-the-authority/  say this 

Need for further research

"Despite the fact that no health risks with weak electromagnetic fields have been established today, the Authority considers that further research is important especially regarding long-term effects especially as the entire population is exposed. One key issue here is to further investigate the possible relationship between radio wave exposure and oxidative stress. Another vital issue is to clarify the association between weak low frequency magnetic fields and childhood leukemia as observed in epidemiological studies.

New technology for inductive wireless energy transfer based on intermediate frequency magnetic fields will probably be implemented for many different applications in the near future. In contrast to wireless information transfer technology, wireless energy transmission in principle always requires relatively strong local fields. This makes it very important to obtain a robust basis for risk assessment of such fields. Today there is a lack of studies in this frequency domain, therefore there is a special need for research here."

https://www.stralsakerhetsmyndigheten.se/contentassets/ea182ee131d049f1b3b1140dd0fbc0f8/201908-recent-research-on-emf-and-health-risk-thirteenth-report-from-ssms-scientific-council-on-electromagnetic-fields-2018.pdf

 

This report was posted twice before and is available for general comment perhaps you would like to "engage" with it now?

 

 

2. Point 2 is more of a political point regarding the extent to which 5g intrusion should be controllable by the End user or who we might call the surveilled , and the Monitoring service provider who we might call the surveying(Spying).

 

On 7/7/2019 at 8:32 AM, mcshed said:

So it's basic conclusion is there is no risk established at the moment but that because it's a public health issue research should be on going. Which is reasonable but has absolutely nothing to do with any supposed increased risk with 5G as this is just talking about general exposure to EMF radiation.

 

It then raises 2 potential issues that where not strong enough to avoid the initial conclusion that there are "NO HEALTH RISKS" but are worthy of further study again with no suggestion that 5G is any worse than any other form of EMF radiation in causing and which again I will labour this point as it comes from your quoted study there are "no health risks"

Finally they raise some concerns about the direction of future technologies, so what do they identify as the potential risk on the horizon? 5G? It has to be 5G that's what we're talking about, that's the big concern, of course it'll be 5G? NO it isn't because 5G is harmless. The thing that they are potentially worried about is wireless charging. So why don't you head off to a McDonald's forum and start shouting at them for putting wireless chargers in their tables? Before anyone reading this panics about wireless charging I will remind them of the over all conclusion of the report " NO HEALTH RISKS."

I have engaged with what you have posted it is nonsense. Now can you tell me in terms as you understand them not linking to other sources but as processed by your brain why you believe 5G to be a significant public health risk?

And why you feel like a small scale pilot at a music festival is more relevent that the large scale roll out of the technology across the country?

 

On 7/7/2019 at 9:32 AM, eFestivals said:

... means "there is no evidence that 5g is a danger".

I'm quite happy for more research btw, but i'm not the person who is pre-judging what further research might discover.

 

On 7/7/2019 at 9:46 AM, hfuhruhurr said:

This whole thread is fascinating. We have someone who is absolutely unaware of what they don't know - they are in the bottom box of the unaware->aware, incapable->capable matrix. The danger is that these people now have a platform (t'internet) to reinforce their beliefs. A positive feedback loop of stupidity. Best case they are harmless fools (flat-earthers), worst case they are trying to manipulate (brexit).

Roger - you've created a fantasy room where us sane people can just shout at the walls to no effect. You'll never learn since you don't know what's wrong, that's ok, but please don't peddle manipulative lies - because that's doing countries like ours genuine harm.

 

On 7/7/2019 at 10:47 AM, eFestivals said:

unfortunately the likes of him think it's him saving us from the harm we're not clever enough to know about, and not the other way around. ;) 

And that's because experts in those many and varied complex knowledge areas know nothing at all compared to read-something-on-the-internet him. :lol: 

 

On 7/7/2019 at 2:39 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

 

 

Really if you could hear yourselves.

Your reactions are to what you think I have said to what you project on to me. And not what I have said or linked to.

Its a curious way to interact, but thats your choice an no concern of mine..

Enjoy the rest of the weekend. 

 

On 7/7/2019 at 2:54 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

And all because, COrporate and State over reach can not exist in eFestival World.

 

 https://longhairedmusings.wordpress.com/2017/01/29/red-lines-settled-science-the-end-of-history-and-entitled-facts-if-truth-were-subject-to-patent-law/

 

 

 

Tolstoy, Leo. What is Art? p. 124 (1899). In The Kingdom of God Is Within You (1893), he similarly declared, “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” (ch. 3). Translated from the Russian by Constance Garnett, New York, 1894. Project Gutenberg edition released November 2002. Retrieved 2009-08-24.

A two-decade study of political pundits by Philip E. Tetlock found that, on the whole, their predictions were not much better than chance. Tetlock divided experts into “foxes” who maintained multiple hypotheses, and “hedgehogs” who were more dogmatic. In general, the hedgehogs were much less accurate. Tetlock blamed their failure on confirmation bias—specifically, their inability to make use of new information that contradicted their existing theories.[116]

 

 

On 7/7/2019 at 3:47 PM, eFestivals said:

:rolleyes: 

Of course it can.

Meanwhile, bullshitters without facts also exist. Can you give some facts to back up the dangers of 5g? Nope.

So you're just a bullshitter.

As you don't seem to get it, wild speculation based only on 'could' and 'might' is nothing worthwhile. We might get invaded by aliens too.

 

On 7/7/2019 at 3:57 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

 

 

 

This post is somewhat perplexing The Swedish metro-logical society document which I have linked to 4 times previously is full of facts.

https://www.stralsakerhetsmyndigheten.se/en/publications/reports/radiation-protection/2019/201908/

 

Research is on going and it is quite clear from the Tin Foil hat guide linked to above ( for the first time by me) that there are sensible precautions we can all take. Regarding 5g , its a new field and more research is needed, Industry testing is inadequate at this stage and further empirical data will no doubt come forward by ongoing studies.

 

That's the Science, Then there's the Politics of mass surveillance etc.

 

 

On 7/7/2019 at 4:11 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

The semantics you choose are interesting eFestivals.

There are suspected issues and testing will back up or establish boundary conditions. Meanwhile sensible practises can be adopted to minimize the worse risks.
Read the tin foil hat guide it is I think fair as is the Swedish Meteorological society pdf report which is published every year.

 

https://www.scirp.org/pdf/JBM_2014102816450494.pdf

 

6. Conclusions and Recommendations Scientific knowledge about the health effects of EMFs is based on a large number of technological, epidemiological, animal and environmental studies. Many outcomes have been examined, but so far no conclusive evidence or connection has been drawn. This is due to overlooking the combined effects of multiple sources and the difficulty of correlating every effect with its cause, and because many of the effects are exhibited in the longterm surpassing the timescale of the technologies that caused them, and rendering any later investigation out of focus.

 

On 7/7/2019 at 4:38 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

You seem to be confusing disagreement with refusal to engage, and also seem to imply that discussion without agreement, even agreement to disagree, is some how an impossible outcome on this subject area?

 I may well be a moron in your opinion , and you are entitled to it. The evidence , regardless as to how readable my posts are on a  mobile device ( something out of my control on this platform), seems to suggest a curious type of Moron but perhaps in your own lexicon of the moronic it somehow fits me?


Moron is a term once used in psychology and psychiatry to denote mild intellectual disability.[1] The term was closely tied with the American eugenics movement.[2] Once the term became popularized, it fell out of use by the psychological community, as it was used more commonly as an insult than as a psychological term. It is similar to imbecile and idiot".[3]

I would concede in a spirit of engagement and even agreement that this level of discourse is an idiotic waste of time.

 

 

 

On 7/7/2019 at 4:52 PM, Roger G Lewis said:

It is an interesting question, Should the masts have been there? That is why I am here. ( Still)

In the future someone may well ask, Were the masts there in 2019, what on earth were they thinking?

In the future some slick lawyer may even try to argue well there were masts there but they were the right kind of masts and not those bad kind. And how were we to know in any event that there could be such a thing as a bad kind. After all there was no evidence then to suggest that a bad kind existed and that any kind could in any set of circumstances result in any sort of Harm.

I am rather fond of this quote from Edmund Burke.

 

“It is very rare indeed for men to be wrong in their feelings concerning public misconduct; as rare to be right in their speculation upon the cause of it. I have constantly observed that the generality of people are fifty years, at least, behindhand in their politics. There are but very few who are capable of comparing and digesting what passes before their eyes at different times and occasions, so as to form the whole into a distinct system. But in books everything is settled for them, without the exertion of any considerable diligence or sagacity. For which reason men are wise with but little reflection, and good with little self-denial, in the business of all times except their own. We are very uncorrupt and tolerably enlightened judges of the transactions of past ages; where no passions deceive, and where the whole train of circumstances, from the trifling cause to the tragical event, is set in an orderly series before us. Few are the partisans of departed tyranny; and to be a Whig on the business of a hundred years ago is very consistent with every advantage of present servility. This retrospective wisdom and historical patriotism are things of wonderful convenience, and serve admirably to reconcile the old quarrel between speculation and practice. Many a stern republican, after gorging himself with a full feast of admiration of the Grecian commonwealths and of our true Saxon constitution, and discharging all the splendid bile of his virtuous indignation on King John and King James, sits down perfectly satisfied to the coarsest work and homeliest job of the day he lives in. I believe there was no professed admirer of Henry the Eighth among the instruments of the last King James; nor in the court of Henry the Eighth was there, I dare say, to be found a single advocate for the favourites of Richard the Second.”
https://longhairedmusings.wordpress.com/2017/03/26/on-the-present-discontents-burke-opined-conquest-of-dough/
 

Such arguments come to court such as cellotex cladding panels on Council Blocks in Kensigton?

 

21 hours ago, Roger G Lewis said:

I agree with what you say here completely e-festivals, time will tell and lets hope it was just another storm in a tea cup.

 

21 hours ago, Roger G Lewis said:

I prefer me some KLF.
 

 

 

19 hours ago, Roger G Lewis said:

So where is the Rule book on proper posting oh great Frosty?
Embedded tweets is automated on this platform, You Tube Links appearing in i frames is also automated.

The Fonts etc appear as defaulted from the Platform this Forum uses, so any posting I do is not anything which I am doing improperly all that I post is what is baked into the Cake.

What you object to is my non conformity with your own in-group biases so rigidly held to and your perception that I am a thought criminal without the suitable awe and respect for Sacred Glasto and its corporate sponsors ( well tough luck matey, I really could not give a Donald), frankly frosty you need to lighten up old chap dare I say take a chill pill? ( you see what I did there?) 

 

What you need Frosty is a crash course from the KLF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mindfuck 

I hope that isn't challenging to many sacred chaos

 

 

 

18 hours ago, Roger G Lewis said:

Hello Deanol,

Do pay attention at the back,

 

You can download Poetry and the first chapters of my novel #ConquestofDough at these links.

 

 

 

 


https://theconquestofdough.weebly.com/the-novel-and-epic-trilogy.html

 

 

 

 

18 hours ago, Roger G Lewis said:

You would if you would remove your head from your own backside be able fairly easily find out that I know rater more about Glastonbury , Its community and organisation than you are assuming.

 

Regarding Formatting, I rely on the platform if your experience is not optimal for you that's your problem and not mine take it up with the web master.

Just for the sake of information mission creep, forum sliding etc. Here are

 

The Swedish Metrological society report and the tin foil hat guide again.

 

https://www.stralsakerhetsmyndigheten.se/en/publications/reports/radiation-protection/2019/201908/

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Non-Tinfoil-Guide-EMFs-Stupid-Technology-ebook/dp/B078KKQW6D

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Roger G Lewis said:

I award this comment , Comment of the Thread. People should make up their own minds on these matters. Regarding the undoubted extent to which both Pro and Anti crap on any single issue which exists on the internet, I appreciate the concerns of the Tin Foil Hat Paranoia Squad, there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Here in Sweden there is a Word, "Lagom" which encapsulates the tale of the three bears and porridge at the right Temperature in the right bowl at the right temperature all in one little word. Perhaps its something to do with the Swedish Fetish for Consensus.

 

 

These two efforts leave me rather perplexed, What would shutting down this discussion have achieved? Marking out people expressing concerns and asking questions as Cassandras, doubting Thomases or generally feeble minded paranoiacs , seems something of an over rated pass time with real risks of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

And if you did balanced analysis (you don't) you should also ask what is achieved by leaving it open.

Are the facts that people are posting here influencing your opinions? Nope.

Are you saying anything worthwhile? Nope, just fact-free bollocks. You might as well be ranting about how we're about to be attacked by aliens, because there's the same basis for that fear - nowt.

hey, look, I'm as clever as you,. I can keep posting the same thing too. :rolleyes: 

If posting the same empty bollocks is all you've got, you need to give it up - cos this is for discussions based on thought, and not cut&pastes based on no-thought.

If you have nothing sensible to contribute, you'll be treated as all trolls are here.

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36 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

see the post I just made. :) 

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  42 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

And if you did balanced analysis (you don't) you should also ask what is achieved by leaving it open.

Are the facts that people are posting here influencing your opinions? Nope.

Are you saying anything worthwhile? Nope, just fact-free bollocks. You might as well be ranting about how we're about to be attacked by aliens, because there's the same basis for that fear - nowt.

"hey look, I'm as clever as you,. I can keep posting the same thing too. :rolleyes: 

If posting the same empty bollocks is all you've got, you need to give it up - cos this is for discussions based on thought, and not cut&pastes based on no-thought.

If you have nothing sensible to contribute, you'll be treated as all trolls are here"

 

E.Festivals, I happen to think that discourse on the internet is an important thing and I also think that Cultural Institutions such as Glastonbury have a responsibility to set a good example in their discourse.
 

As a representative of Glastonbury as a moderator on this Forum, either directly or by association I personally think that at times in this discussion your Conduct has been below that which we should be able to expect and demand from one of the UK's most important popular culture institutions. Sara Shepherd has been a personal friend of mine for over 10 years , and many of the musicians and sound crew at the festival are personal friends of mine as well, I lived in Bristol for several years before moving here to Sweden and the West country is my neck of the woods as it were.

I am fortunate enough to have the time and inclination to write on matters related to free Speech, and my own views whilst critical of the Current political Establishment are borne out of being part of the fabric of the British establishment myself, your sneering attitude to me personally does not matter to me one jot, I have very thick skin and have no concerns regarding being told tales on to an employer or Higher up, appeals to authority do not impress me, never have , never will.

Now my use of this discussion has several purposes and in revealing my "Darker Purposes" or several motives for staying engaged , even among some of the unpleasantness are these.

1, Some excellent material for my current Novel ( Conquest of Dough )

2. A case study on limitations of fora moderation and looking at content management within web 3.


3. 5G is a fascinating lens into the purposes of the Surveillance state with its integration to smart metering, and Artificial Intelligence.
The Masts at Glastonbury are pretty much a gateway drug to some rather more serious Gear you might say.5%G social media bubble gum is really just a wrapping paper or the PR wing for altogether much more profound trends and trajectories in the control of the madness of crowds as it were.

 

Roger Lewis to Sarah Sheppard
Just now · 
 

Hi Sarah, Thought this discussion on the 5G at Glasto this year was rather interesting.
All the best
Roger

safe_image.php?d=AQAHhqvaDQMer2iB&w=540&
LONGHAIREDMUSINGS.WORDPRESS.COM
 
My Novel Conquest of Dough has its finale set at the Glastonbury Festival, The internet gods delivered last week a Forum discussion on 5g at Glastonbury which will add more comedy Grist to the &#82…
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19 hours ago, Roger G Lewis said:

The Swedish Metrological society report and the tin foil hat guide again.

https://www.stralsakerhetsmyndigheten.se/en/publications/reports/radiation-protection/2019/201908/

Just to save anyone else the time

Quote

Results

No new causal relationship between EMF exposure and health risks have been established.

Overall, the age standardised incidence of brain tumours is within the annual variations which can be statistically expected and do not give support to any causal relationship with radio wave exposure from mobile phone use.


At least all this quoting/reposting has conclusively proven one thing - this man needs some proper help.

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5 hours ago, Roger G Lewis said:

E.Festivals, I happen to think that discourse on the internet is an important thing and I also think that Cultural Institutions such as Glastonbury have a responsibility to set a good example in their discourse.
 

As a representative of Glastonbury as a moderator on this Forum, either directly or by association I personally think that at times in this discussion your Conduct has been below that which we should be able to expect and demand from one of the UK's most important popular culture institutions.

He's not a representative of Glastonbury. He does however own and pay for this forum, that he's letting you post you stuff on. He could shut you down entirely, ban you, remove your posts. There's no free speech here - there's free speech on the internet, you just need to set up your own website. You aren't guaranteed free speech on other people's dimes. Yet you're getting it anyway, no-one is censoring you, they're just challenging your beliefs.

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2 minutes ago, DareToDibble said:

What in the fuck is going on here? 

I have no idea what on earth is happening other than my comment about Snake on Nokias being quoted... which I refuse to believe is relevant to anything.

Nothing's relevant to anything in here pal.  Truly we are pilgrims in an unholy land.

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18 minutes ago, DareToDibble said:

What in the fuck is going on here? 

I have no idea what on earth is happening other than my comment about Snake on Nokias being quoted... which I refuse to believe is relevant to anything.

Same...

I've been quoted along with a million other people... can't even remember what I said but pretty sure it's not important. 

This whole thread is ready for the bin.

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1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

He's not a representative of Glastonbury. He does however own and pay for this forum, that he's letting you post you stuff on. He could shut you down entirely, ban you, remove your posts. There's no free speech here - there's free speech on the internet, you just need to set up your own website. You aren't guaranteed free speech on other people's dimes. Yet you're getting it anyway, no-one is censoring you, they're just challenging your beliefs.

My Comments are being actively moderated and the one I made this morning saying so long and thanks for all the fish my work is done here was deleted and not passed through Moderation.

The Site passes itself off as some sort of official festival site, I would be unhappy if I was involved with Glastonbury to have this forum and its moderation associated with my Festival.
https://longhairedmusings.wordpress.com/2019/07/09/5g-at-glastonbury-comedy-gold-for-conquestofdough/comment-page-1/#comment-3537

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26 minutes ago, Tinfoil Resistance said:

My Comments are being actively moderated and the one I made this morning saying so long and thanks for all the fish my work is done here was deleted and not passed through Moderation.

The Site passes itself off as some sort of official festival site, I would be unhappy if I was involved with Glastonbury to have this forum and its moderation associated with my Festival.
https://longhairedmusings.wordpress.com/2019/07/09/5g-at-glastonbury-comedy-gold-for-conquestofdough/comment-page-1/#comment-3537

can you take your tins , foil and resistance elsewhere ? (where there is actually something to resist ) 

Edited by crazyfool1
added bit in brackets
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8 minutes ago, Tinfoil Resistance said:

 

 

 

 

Oh Roger... you are a bit crazy.

Good luck with your crusade.

Glastonbury is over now, so you must have another one lined up.

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38 minutes ago, Tinfoil Resistance said:

The Site passes itself off as some sort of official festival site,

No it doesn't. There's no end to what you'll make up. :rolleyes: 

 

Quote

I would be unhappy if I was involved with Glastonbury to have this forum and its moderation associated with my Festival.

good job Glastonbury is run by better people than you then. :) 

Edited by eFestivals
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