5G @ Glastonbury 2019

[HalfAnIdiot]

13 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

has anyone died of 5g from the festival yet?

I did

[Thunderstruck]

33 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

I did

? and it’s transmitted you into the afterlife?! Amazing. I want some of this.

[HalfAnIdiot]

1 minute ago, Thunderstruck said:

? and it’s transmitted you into the afterlife?! Amazing. I want some of this.

The future of technology...

[Roger G Lewis]

7 hours ago, frostypaw said:

LOL.

This is all amazing, you've just proven conclusively you've not reached the education level of a GCSE maths student.

Please if you're honestly interested in finding out about this stuff go to college. You will be doing nothing but wasting your time here

I am afraid that the low level of information is coming from your sub par level of argumentation Frosty,

As a Keen student myself of Arthur Schopenhauer , I refer you to his Art of being right.(art of controversy)
 

Your tireless and less than adept adoption of strategem. xiv.

akin to the fallacy non causae ut causae.

http://coolhaus.de/art-of-controversy/

[Roger G Lewis]

7 hours ago, tumbles said:

Noticed he won’t engage with me when I mentioned the 7 years of academic studies I did on radio comms. Funny that. 

Tumbles, Are you saying I have not engaged with you? 

I thought earlier in the thread that claim was made regarding Dereck?

Your own study of Radio communication and Electrical Engineering, or which ever field it was you studied is of course of interest . The specific questions are actually to do with two things.

1. The Extent of potential harm to organic based life ( plants and Mamals/ Insects) through exposure to EMF, radiation .

2. The desirability of 5g regarding consumer experience and future of the Internet of things.

Point 1 relates to what is an acceptable level of exposure and is an area in which it is admitted that very little research has been done and the  The Swedish Radiation Safety Authority  https://www.stralsakerhetsmyndigheten.se/en/about-the-authority/  say this 

" 

Need for further research

"Despite the fact that no health risks with weak electromagnetic fields have been established today, the Authority considers that further research is important especially regarding long-term effects especially as the entire population is exposed. One key issue here is to further investigate the possible relationship between radio wave exposure and oxidative stress. Another vital issue is to clarify the association between weak low frequency magnetic fields and childhood leukemia as observed in epidemiological studies.

New technology for inductive wireless energy transfer based on intermediate frequency magnetic fields will probably be implemented for many different applications in the near future. In contrast to wireless information transfer technology, wireless energy transmission in principle always requires relatively strong local fields. This makes it very important to obtain a robust basis for risk assessment of such fields. Today there is a lack of studies in this frequency domain, therefore there is a special need for research here."

https://www.stralsakerhetsmyndigheten.se/contentassets/ea182ee131d049f1b3b1140dd0fbc0f8/201908-recent-research-on-emf-and-health-risk-thirteenth-report-from-ssms-scientific-council-on-electromagnetic-fields-2018.pdf

 

This report was posted twice before and is available for general comment perhaps you would like to "engage" with it now?

 

 

2. Point 2 is more of a political point regarding the extent to which 5g intrusion should be controllable by the End user or who we might call the surveilled , and the Monitoring service provider who we might call the surveying(Spying).

[mcshed]

38 minutes ago, Roger G Lewis said:

Need for further research

"Despite the fact that no health risks with weak electromagnetic fields have been established today, the Authority considers that further research is important especially regarding long-term effects especially as the entire population is exposed. 

So it's basic conclusion is there is no risk established at the moment but that because it's a public health issue research should be on going. Which is reasonable but has absolutely nothing to do with any supposed increased risk with 5G as this is just talking about general exposure to EMF radiation.

 

46 minutes ago, Roger G Lewis said:

One key issue here is to further investigate the possible relationship between radio wave exposure and oxidative stress. Another vital issue is to clarify the association between weak low frequency magnetic fields and childhood leukemia as observed in epidemiological studies.

It then raises 2 potential issues that where not strong enough to avoid the initial conclusion that there are "NO HEALTH RISKS" but are worthy of further study again with no suggestion that 5G is any worse than any other form of EMF radiation in causing and which again I will labour this point as it comes from your quoted study there are "no health risks"

54 minutes ago, Roger G Lewis said:

New technology for inductive wireless energy transfer based on intermediate frequency magnetic fields will probably be implemented for many different applications in the near future. In contrast to wireless information transfer technology, wireless energy transmission in principle always requires relatively strong local fields. This makes it very important to obtain a robust basis for risk assessment of such fields. Today there is a lack of studies in this frequency domain, therefore there is a special need for research here.

Finally they raise some concerns about the direction of future technologies, so what do they identify as the potential risk on the horizon? 5G? It has to be 5G that's what we're talking about, that's the big concern, of course it'll be 5G? NO it isn't because 5G is harmless. The thing that they are potentially worried about is wireless charging. So why don't you head off to a McDonald's forum and start shouting at them for putting wireless chargers in their tables? Before anyone reading this panics about wireless charging I will remind them of the over all conclusion of the report " NO HEALTH RISKS."

I have engaged with what you have posted it is nonsense. Now can you tell me in terms as you understand them not linking to other sources but as processed by your brain why you believe 5G to be a significant public health risk?

And why you feel like a small scale pilot at a music festival is more relevent that the large scale roll out of the technology across the country?

[eFestivals]

2 hours ago, Roger G Lewis said:

Need for further research

... means "there is no evidence that 5g is a danger".

I'm quite happy for more research btw, but i'm not the person who is pre-judging what further research might discover.

[hfuhruhurr]

This whole thread is fascinating. We have someone who is absolutely unaware of what they don't know - they are in the bottom box of the unaware->aware, incapable->capable matrix. The danger is that these people now have a platform (t'internet) to reinforce their beliefs. A positive feedback loop of stupidity. Best case they are harmless fools (flat-earthers), worst case they are trying to manipulate (brexit).

Roger - you've created a fantasy room where us sane people can just shout at the walls to no effect. You'll never learn since you don't know what's wrong, that's ok, but please don't peddle manipulative lies - because that's doing countries like ours genuine harm.

[eFestivals]

56 minutes ago, hfuhruhurr said:

but please don't peddle manipulative lies - because that's doing countries like ours genuine harm.

unfortunately the likes of him think it's him saving us from the harm we're not clever enough to know about, and not the other way around.  

And that's because experts in those many and varied complex knowledge areas know nothing at all compared to read-something-on-the-internet him. :lol: 

[Roger G Lewis]

14 hours ago, frostypaw said:

LOL.

This is all amazing, you've just proven conclusively you've not reached the education level of a GCSE maths student.

Please if you're honestly interested in finding out about this stuff go to college. You will be doing nothing but wasting your time here

 

14 hours ago, tumbles said:

Noticed he won’t engage with me when I mentioned the 7 years of academic studies I did on radio comms. Funny that. 

 

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

unfortunately the likes of him think it's him saving us from the harm we're not clever enough to know about, and not the other way around.  

And that's because experts in those many and varied complex knowledge areas know nothing at all compared to read-something-on-the-internet him. :lol: 

Really if you could hear yourselves.

Your reactions are to what you think I have said to what you project on to me. And not what I have said or linked to.

Its a curious way to interact, but thats your choice an no concern of mine..

Enjoy the rest of the weekend. 

[Roger G Lewis]

And all because, COrporate and State over reach can not exist in eFestival World.

 

 https://longhairedmusings.wordpress.com/2017/01/29/red-lines-settled-science-the-end-of-history-and-entitled-facts-if-truth-were-subject-to-patent-law/

 

 

 

Tolstoy, Leo. What is Art? p. 124 (1899). In The Kingdom of God Is Within You (1893), he similarly declared, “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” (ch. 3). Translated from the Russian by Constance Garnett, New York, 1894. Project Gutenberg edition released November 2002. Retrieved 2009-08-24.

A two-decade study of political pundits by Philip E. Tetlock found that, on the whole, their predictions were not much better than chance. Tetlock divided experts into “foxes” who maintained multiple hypotheses, and “hedgehogs” who were more dogmatic. In general, the hedgehogs were much less accurate. Tetlock blamed their failure on confirmation bias—specifically, their inability to make use of new information that contradicted their existing theories.[116]

 

[mrfunk]

I do laugh at the tin foil brigade worried about 5G, yet most of you drink alcohol, one of the world's biggest killing drugs on the planet lol

[HalfAnIdiot]

10 minutes ago, mrfunk said:

I do laugh at the tin foil brigade worried about 5G, yet most of you drink alcohol, one of the world's biggest killing drugs on the planet lol

I like to think I am partaking in a long term research study ?

[eFestivals]

50 minutes ago, Roger G Lewis said:

And all because, COrporate and State over reach can not exist in eFestival World.

 

Of course it can.

Meanwhile, bullshitters without facts also exist. Can you give some facts to back up the dangers of 5g? Nope.

So you're just a bullshitter.

As you don't seem to get it, wild speculation based only on 'could' and 'might' is nothing worthwhile. We might get invaded by aliens too.

[babyblade41]

Well I'm totally lost.. my last house didn't have broadband and this one does so I'm a happy bunny... what is this 5g thing anyway ??? 

[Roger G Lewis]

10 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

Of course it can.

Meanwhile, bullshitters without facts also exist. Can you give some facts to back up the dangers of 5g? Nope.

So you're just a bullshitter.

As you don't seem to get it, wild speculation based only on 'could' and 'might' is nothing worthwhile. We might get invaded by aliens too.

 

 

 

This post is somewhat perplexing The Swedish metro-logical society document which I have linked to 4 times previously is full of facts.

https://www.stralsakerhetsmyndigheten.se/en/publications/reports/radiation-protection/2019/201908/

 

Research is on going and it is quite clear from the Tin Foil hat guide linked to above ( for the first time by me) that there are sensible precautions we can all take. Regarding 5g , its a new field and more research is needed, Industry testing is inadequate at this stage and further empirical data will no doubt come forward by ongoing studies.

 

That's the Science, Then there's the Politics of mass surveillance etc.

 

Edited July 7, 2019 by Roger G Lewis

[eFestivals]

"might"

"Research is on going"

"more research is needed"

 

means?

As things stand there's no known issue.

 

[Roger G Lewis]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

"might"

"Research is on going"

"more research is needed"

 

means?

As things stand there's no known issue.

 

The semantics you choose are interesting eFestivals.

There are suspected issues and testing will back up or establish boundary conditions. Meanwhile sensible practises can be adopted to minimize the worse risks.
Read the tin foil hat guide it is I think fair as is the Swedish Meteorological society pdf report which is published every year.

 

https://www.scirp.org/pdf/JBM_2014102816450494.pdf

 

6. Conclusions and Recommendations Scientific knowledge about the health effects of EMFs is based on a large number of technological, epidemiological, animal and environmental studies. Many outcomes have been examined, but so far no conclusive evidence or connection has been drawn. This is due to overlooking the combined effects of multiple sources and the difficulty of correlating every effect with its cause, and because many of the effects are exhibited in the longterm surpassing the timescale of the technologies that caused them, and rendering any later investigation out of focus.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Roger G Lewis

[Crazyfool01]

5 minutes ago, Roger G Lewis said:

The semantics you choose are interesting eFestivals.

There are suspected issues and testing will back up or establish boundary conditions. Meanwhile sensible practises can be adopted to minimize the worse risks.
Read the tin foil hat guide it is I think fair as is the Swedish Meteorological society pdf report which is published every year.

 

https://www.scirp.org/pdf/JBM_2014102816450494.pdf

 

6. Conclusions and Recommendations Scientific knowledge about the health effects of EMFs is based on a large number of technological, epidemiological, animal and environmental studies. Many outcomes have been examined, but so far no conclusive evidence or connection has been drawn. This is due to overlooking the combined effects of multiple sources and the difficulty of correlating every effect with its cause, and because many of the effects are exhibited in the longterm surpassing the timescale of the technologies that caused them, and rendering any later investigation out of focus.

You do realise how unreadable all your posts are on a mobile device ? ... scrap that ... just unreadable anyway ...  

[paulshane]

4 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

You do realise how unreadable all your posts are on a mobile device ? ... scrap that ... just unreadable anyway ...  

the guy is a moron, he will not -ever- listen to anything we post, it's pointless engaging him, as, well, he's a moron.

[Roger G Lewis]

15 minutes ago, paulshane said:

the guy is a moron, he will not -ever- listen to anything we post, it's pointless engaging him, as, well, he's a moron.

You seem to be confusing disagreement with refusal to engage, and also seem to imply that discussion without agreement, even agreement to disagree, is some how an impossible outcome on this subject area?

 I may well be a moron in your opinion , and you are entitled to it. The evidence , regardless as to how readable my posts are on a  mobile device ( something out of my control on this platform), seems to suggest a curious type of Moron but perhaps in your own lexicon of the moronic it somehow fits me?

" Moron is a term once used in psychology and psychiatry to denote mild intellectual disability.^[1] The term was closely tied with the American eugenics movement.^[2] Once the term became popularized, it fell out of use by the psychological community, as it was used more commonly as an insult than as a psychological term. It is similar to imbecile and idiot".^[3]

^{I would concede in a spirit of engagement and even agreement that this level of discourse is an idiotic waste of time.}

 

 

Edited July 7, 2019 by Roger G Lewis

[paulshane]

lol

[fatyeti24]

Just now, Roger G Lewis said:

You seem to be confusing disagreement with refusal to engage, and also seem to apply that discussion without agreement even agreement to disagree is some how an impossible outcome on this subject area?. I may well be a moron in your opinion , and you are entitled to it. The evidence , regardless as to how readable my posts are on a  mobile device ( something out of my control on this platform), seems to suggest a curious type of Moron but perhaps in your own lexicon of the moronic it somehow fits me?
" Moron is a term once used in psychology and psychiatry to denote mild intellectual disability.^[1] The term was closely tied with the American eugenics movement.^[2] Once the term became popularized, it fell out of use by the psychological community, as it was used more commonly as an insult than as a psychological term. It is similar to imbecile and idiot".^[3]

^{I would concede in a spirit of engagement and even agreement that this level of discourse is an idiotic waste of time.}

 

 

Why are you even here?  The festival finished a week ago, they've taken the masts down now.

[Roger G Lewis]

5 minutes ago, fatyeti24 said:

Why are you even here?  The festival finished a week ago, they've taken the masts down now.

It is an interesting question, Should the masts have been there? That is why I am here. ( Still)

In the future someone may well ask, Were the masts there in 2019, what on earth were they thinking?

In the future some slick lawyer may even try to argue well there were masts there but they were the right kind of masts and not those bad kind. And how were we to know in any event that there could be such a thing as a bad kind. After all there was no evidence then to suggest that a bad kind existed and that any kind could in any set of circumstances result in any sort of Harm.

I am rather fond of this quote from Edmund Burke.

 

“It is very rare indeed for men to be wrong in their feelings concerning public misconduct; as rare to be right in their speculation upon the cause of it. I have constantly observed that the generality of people are fifty years, at least, behindhand in their politics. There are but very few who are capable of comparing and digesting what passes before their eyes at different times and occasions, so as to form the whole into a distinct system. But in books everything is settled for them, without the exertion of any considerable diligence or sagacity. For which reason men are wise with but little reflection, and good with little self-denial, in the business of all times except their own. We are very uncorrupt and tolerably enlightened judges of the transactions of past ages; where no passions deceive, and where the whole train of circumstances, from the trifling cause to the tragical event, is set in an orderly series before us. Few are the partisans of departed tyranny; and to be a Whig on the business of a hundred years ago is very consistent with every advantage of present servility. This retrospective wisdom and historical patriotism are things of wonderful convenience, and serve admirably to reconcile the old quarrel between speculation and practice. Many a stern republican, after gorging himself with a full feast of admiration of the Grecian commonwealths and of our true Saxon constitution, and discharging all the splendid bile of his virtuous indignation on King John and King James, sits down perfectly satisfied to the coarsest work and homeliest job of the day he lives in. I believe there was no professed admirer of Henry the Eighth among the instruments of the last King James; nor in the court of Henry the Eighth was there, I dare say, to be found a single advocate for the favourites of Richard the Second.”
https://longhairedmusings.wordpress.com/2017/03/26/on-the-present-discontents-burke-opined-conquest-of-dough/
 

Such arguments come to court such as cellotex cladding panels on Council Blocks in Kensigton?

[Gnomicide]