eFestivals Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Tuna said: mr efestivals in being confontational shocker. state of it. It's not me who's refusing to recognise identities. Think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest17 Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, eFestivals said: and inventing your own reasonings for others isn't? I'd just gone back on a previous post to clearly indicate the errors I'd made with that, and put proper thought into how I made references in the next post (tho perhaps not enough thought into the full wording of what I was actually getting at. Ho Hum). And I respect that view. It doesn't alter the fact of a past as Kate, and everything which came with it. Fair enough. I'm no authority on the subject obviously, just wanted to put in my 2 penny worth. I try and keep up with it all so I can treat everyone with respect, as long as we're all on that page then a bunch of cis people arguing about the English interpretations of it is probably just wasting our morning ahah. Its positive everyone here is supporting Kae at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dentalplan Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) Not that I don’t also feel Neil is being needlessly stubborn, but someone could just start a new thread and this would all be over. I know that someone could be me but I don’t like their music and don’t really wish to discuss it. Edited August 11, 2020 by dentalplan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 Just now, priest17 said: Fair enough. I'm no authority on the subject obviously, just wanted to put in my 2 penny worth. I try and keep up with it all so I can treat everyone with respect, as long as we're all on that page then a bunch of cis people arguing about the English interpretations of it is probably just wasting our morning ahah. Its positive everyone here is supporting Kae at least. OK this one's probably going to get me pilloried.... Is it just me that has some undefinable objection to being categorised as "cis"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 Just now, dentalplan said: Not that I don’t also feel Neil is being needlessly stubborn, but someone could just start a new thread and this would all be over. I know that someone could be me but I don’t like their music and don’t really wish to discuss it. someone has already done it, something I have absolutely no issue with. Meanwhile, the artist who smashed it at Glastonbury was billed as Kate Tempest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 minute ago, dentalplan said: Not that I don’t also feel Neil is being needlessly stubborn, but someone could just start a new thread and this would all be over. I know that someone could be me but I don’t like their music and don’t really wish to discuss it. It's been done. jyoung did it but we're all still here arguing on this one All new releases / music /tours / announcements will be discussed on there I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuna Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, dentalplan said: Not that I don’t also feel Neil is being needlessly stubborn, but someone could just start a new thread and this would all be over. I know that someone could be me but I don’t like their music and don’t really wish to discuss it. It was started over an hour ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 Just now, Quark said: OK this one's probably going to get me pilloried.... Is it just me that has some undefinable objection to being categorised as "cis"? it's rather amusing, this is the "how dare you force identities on me" gang ... erm ... forcing identities on others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzie Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Quark said: OK this one's probably going to get me pilloried.... Is it just me that has some undefinable objection to being categorised as "cis"? No! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, Quark said: OK this one's probably going to get me pilloried.... Is it just me that has some undefinable objection to being categorised as "cis"? No! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) Should add that's not intended to stir up an "I should be able to call you what I want" argument! I can't even put my finger on why it winds me up a bit, but every time I see something on twitter about "white cis males" I just knot up a little bit! Anyway, back to Kae. That's a topic (a) for another thread and (b) I probably shouldn't have brought up because I can't see this ending anything other than badly now Edited August 11, 2020 by Quark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest17 Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 Just now, Quark said: OK this one's probably going to get me pilloried.... Is it just me that has some undefinable objection to being categorised as "cis"? I get it, as the debate has gone on over time its been used as an insult to hit back, I just haven't heard another term being used for it and don't find it particularly offensive myself. I've seen some people get annoyed by it because they don't think 'normal' should have its own term though and thats a bit off. I was really trying to diffuse with that post not start another argument ahah. I don't really care what you call me personally, but if someone gets upset by being referred to as a certain way I try to accommodate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 Just now, Quark said: Should add that's not intended to stir up an "I should be able to call you what I want" argument! I can't even put my finger on why it winds me up a bit, but every time I see something on twitter about "white cis males" I just knot up a little bit! The gender activists say that people should be addressed and labelled in the way they identify with. One of the many contradictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 minute ago, priest17 said: I get it, as the debate has gone on over time its been used as an insult to hit back, I just haven't heard another term being used for it and don't find it particularly offensive myself. I've seen some people get annoyed by it because they don't think 'normal' should have its own term though and thats a bit off. I was really trying to diffuse with that post not start another argument ahah. I don't really care what you call me personally, but if someone gets upset by being referred to as a certain way I try to accommodate. Yeah, sorry I jumped on it! Think you're bang on with the rest of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCountryGirl Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Quark said: Should add that's not intended to stir up an "I should be able to call you what I want" argument! I can't even put my finger on why it winds me up a bit, but every time I see something on twitter about "white cis males" I just knot up a little bit! The only comparison I can think of, and I'm not certain if this is relevant as this instance has just been this way my whole life as far as I can remember, but did people ever used to 'define' themselves as 'heterosexual', or was it just presumed so never needed to be said? I had a similar reaction to you when 'cis' started being used more, but my 'knotting up' has lessened as time has gone on. It's not something I ever have to think about, really - which is the privilege of being cis, I guess. If it ever ends up being on a form along with age/sexual orientation etc. I won't have a problem ticking the 'cis' box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest17 Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, Quark said: Yeah, sorry I jumped on it! Think you're bang on with the rest of it nae bother ahah. I'm on another website called twitter dot com and can assure you this is truly a debate with no end in sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 minute ago, WestCountryGirl said: The only comparison I can think of, and I'm not certain if this is relevant as this instance has just been this way my whole life as far as I can remember, but did people ever used to 'define' themselves as 'heterosexual', or was it just presumed so never needed to be said? I had a similar reaction to you when 'cis' started being used more, but my 'knotting up' has lessened as time has gone on. It's not something I ever have to think about, really - which is the privilege of being cis, I guess. If it ever ends up being on a form along with age/sexual orientation etc. I won't have a problem ticking the 'cis' box. A lot of it is language, and how people interpret words. In my head for example, "normal" and "different" don't match up to "good" and "bad", it's just a statistical thing where "normal" more closely correlates to "average". So I think of myself as normal, because I've got the gender I was born with and the corresponding sexuality, which overall is the statistical norm. Or at the very least a majority of the population. Describing myself as normal doesn't mean that I'm casting any shade on people that fall outside that definition; I don't use it a positive or negative thing. But I recognise that it can be viewed or interpreted that way, particularly by people who've carried the stigma of constantly being told they're "not normal". So I don't. Language can be a funny thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattiloy Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Quark said: OK this one's probably going to get me pilloried.... Is it just me that has some undefinable objection to being categorised as "cis"? All I think of whenever I see it is this classic kit of the mighty BRFC from the early 2000s. Something I'm also reminded of whenever I get the coach to Glastonbury from Manchester which leaves from just outside the CIS building. The CIS label I don't object to for whoever wants to call me that, I think labels are clearly more important for people who have endured some kind of struggle over their identity, but I don't think it'll ever become mainstream parlance just because thats how language usually works: If I asked someone to draw a swan, most people would draw a white swan without me saying a white swan. If I wanted someone to draw a black swan, I would probably have to specify that because they are the minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, mattiloy said: The CIS label I don't object to for whoever wants to call me that, I think labels are clearly more important for people who have endured some kind of struggle over their identity, but I don't think it'll ever become mainstream parlance just because thats how language usually works: If I asked someone to draw a swan, most people would draw a white swan without me saying a white swan. If I wanted someone to draw a black swan, I would probably have to specify that because they are the minority. Good points. I suppose the only place I really see cis used as a term is on twitter, and that's down to the bands and artists that I follow. Something I can quite easily avoid in real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattiloy Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Quark said: Good points. I suppose the only place I really see cis used as a term is on twitter, and that's down to the bands and artists that I follow. Something I can quite easily avoid in real life. Yes sir, never a bad thing to remind oneself not to take twitter too seriously. Half an hour of reading comments on there is enough to give me a headache most days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitehorses Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 Can confirm, being on twitter, there is no end in sight for this debate. Even among people who all support trans people and trans rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadimmock Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 41 minutes ago, mattiloy said: If I asked someone to draw a swan, most people would draw a white swan without me saying a white swan. If I wanted someone to draw a black swan, I would probably have to specify that because they are the minority. Unless you were in Australia and you might find that the person drew a Black Swan by default. Situation, experience and memory shape the way in which people interpret words/labels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, sadimmock said: Unless you were in Australia and you might find that the person drew a Black Swan by default. Situation, experience and memory shape the way in which people interpret words/labels Well I'll be kajiggered. Didn't even know that was a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadimmock Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 Just now, Quark said: Well I'll be kajiggered. Didn't even know that was a thing. Surprised the hell out of me when I found myself very jet-lagged in an Adelaide park! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 I’ve read through the last three pages of debate and I genuinely have no idea what is happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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