Jump to content
kalifire

Brexit at Glasto?

Recommended Posts

That's the key point. There's no majority for a 2nd referendum, sure, but it'll win in a head to head with most other options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They won't have a second referendum as all parties signed up to the original one as a "Once in a lifetime opportunity"  and to triggering article 50. and have been squabbling ever since.

If any vote occurs it'll be described as a "confirmatory vote" and hopefully will have decent options:-

Leave to WTO.

Leave with TM's deal,

Cancel article 50 and remain as we are now.

Cancel article 50 and fully join the EU - inc Euro.

 

As for TM - I think she'll get the push at the Tory conference (unless we can get the IRA to bomb the hotel again).

  • Downvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Penrhos said:

They won't have a second referendum as all parties signed up to the original one as a "Once in a lifetime opportunity"  and to triggering article 50. and have been squabbling ever since.

If any vote occurs it'll be described as a "confirmatory vote" and hopefully will have decent options:-

Leave to WTO.

Leave with TM's deal,

Cancel article 50 and remain as we are now.

Cancel article 50 and fully join the EU - inc Euro.

 

Ha, I remember playfully suggesting these 4 votes, particularly the one I highlighted, ages ago.  A hard remain to counter claims that a 3 way vote would be unfair on the leave options.

I don't see it happening now.  A "confirmation vote" would still only be 2 options imo.  And obviously that'll have to be whatever deal is on the table (and acceptable to the EU) and remain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Penrhos said:

Leave to WTO.

Leave with TM's deal,

Cancel article 50 and remain as we are now.

Cancel article 50 and fully join the EU - inc Euro.

If that were to happen (which it won't), both sides of the argument would be fully aware of the isue of "splitting the vote" and campaigners on both sides wage campaigns urging people to vote for one of the "leave" options and one of the "remain" options. My guess would be that remainers would push people towards option 3 and nobody would vote for 4 while leavers would push people towards..... hang on a nimute, you may be onto something here. How would leavers avoid splitting their vote? Neither leave options is palattable to half of the leave contingent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, bombfrog said:

If that were to happen (which it won't), both sides of the argument would be fully aware of the isue of "splitting the vote" and campaigners on both sides wage campaigns urging people to vote for one of the "leave" options and one of the "remain" options. My guess would be that remainers would push people towards option 3 and nobody would vote for 4 while leavers would push people towards..... hang on a nimute, you may be onto something here. How would leavers avoid splitting their vote? Neither leave options is palattable to half of the leave contingent.

that's the whole point.  A 3 way vote would obviously be unfair because the leave vote is split, so the hard remain option is to balance it out.  I don't think any one would really fall for this trick, but it is a fun thing to suggest on Leave Supporting forums.  Trust me!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any referendum with more than 2 options will employ some kind of preference system like STV so as to not split the vote. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, uscore said:

A 3 way vote would obviously be unfair because the leave vote is split

most people are able to grasp a single transferable vote system. :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

most people are able to grasp a single transferable vote system. :) 

We don't want a 3 way vote though!  I think that (No Deal or May's Deal) has a chance of sneaking through against remain.

You need to be onboard the stitch up train.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, uscore said:

We don't want a 3 way vote though! 

I'm quite relaxed for the vote to be on any options that can be justified.

If the British people want to prove themselves collective idiots - again - then denying that within a vote on brexit isn't going to stop them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

I'm quite relaxed for the vote to be on any options that can be justified.

If the British people want to prove themselves collective idiots - again - then denying that within a vote on brexit isn't going to stop them.

Fair enough. Personally I think the idiots need to be restricted as much as possible to avoid them causing damage to themselves and the rest of us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I'm quite relaxed for the vote to be on any options that can be justified.

If the British people want to prove themselves collective idiots - again - then denying that within a vote on brexit isn't going to stop them.

A three way STV vote might be just confusing enough for the Brexiteers to claim that stopped us getting our unicorns if May wins through.

Remember in the AV referendum the main against argument was "it should be one person, one vote" and that won.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

Remember in the AV referendum the main against argument was "it should be one person, one vote" and that won.

Can't say I ever heard anyone arguing that. 

I do remember saying that AV was an OK system but it wouldn't be my first choice.
(think about it :P )

Variants of STV are well established in this country and its used for all sorts of stuff - the Scottish, Welsh and NI elections, plus electing the tory leader.

If anyone claims it's beyond them then they might as well be sticking a pin in the ballot paper, cos that'll be about the value of their vote.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, eFestivals said:

most people are able to grasp a single transferable vote system. :) 

It is remarkable how often this needs to be pointed out even amongst the politically engaged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Can't say I ever heard anyone arguing that. 

I do remember saying that AV was an OK system but it wouldn't be my first choice.
(think about it :P )

Variants of STV are well established in this country and its used for all sorts of stuff - the Scottish, Welsh and NI elections, plus electing the tory leader.

If anyone claims it's beyond them then they might as well be sticking a pin in the ballot paper, cos that'll be about the value of their vote.

Or vote leave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Or vote leave.

if they can't understand STV they wouldn't understand what they're voting for so would be as likely to vote remain. :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

if they can't understand STV they wouldn't understand what they're voting for so would be as likely to vote remain. :) 

Unfortunately not. The dumbed down rhetoric of Farrage and his ilk are more powerful to those of limited understanding than reasoned arguments. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, tarw said:

Unfortunately not. The dumbed down rhetoric of Farrage and his ilk are more powerful to those of limited understanding than reasoned arguments. 

But they're too dumb to understand STV? Nah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, tarw said:

Unfortunately not. The dumbed down rhetoric of Farrage and his ilk are more powerful to those of limited understanding than reasoned arguments. 

The fuckwit was on the Radio 4 7.10am slot this morning. I made a conscious decision to try and listen to him (bear with me...) as if i knew nothing about him or the lies and bile he spouts...to try and see what some people take away from his rants.

(Without going into why the BBC keep giving him a platform and when they do fail to challenge his bullshit) In a perverse and utterly terrifying way i can almost see why the unthinking or those that don't read or listen to anything else or go any deeper that the S*n gobble up the fucking shite he spouts.

 

Speaking of those with limited understanding, what's everyone's take on the European elections (should they happen).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Woffy said:

The fuckwit was on the Radio 4 7.10am slot this morning. I made a conscious decision to try and listen to him (bear with me...) as if i knew nothing about him or the lies and bile he spouts...to try and see what some people take away from his rants.

(Without going into why the BBC keep giving him a platform and when they do fail to challenge his bullshit) In a perverse and utterly terrifying way i can almost see why the unthinking or those that don't read or listen to anything else or go any deeper that the S*n gobble up the fucking shite he spouts.

 

Speaking of those with limited understanding, what's everyone's take on the European elections (should they happen).

I think that it is a mistake to call Farrage a fuckwit. I get the impression that he is like Boris - an intelligent man pretending to be a buffoon. Far more dangerous than a fuckwit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, tarw said:

Boris - an intelligent man pretending to be a buffoon.

The buffoon bit isn't an act. He doesn't do detail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, tarw said:

I think that it is a mistake to call Farrage a fuckwit. I get the impression that he is like Boris - an intelligent man pretending to be a buffoon. Far more dangerous than a fuckwit. 

They are a pair of fuckwits who are slightly cleverer than they appear.

Actually,  scrub that, Farage isn't as clever as he appears and as for Boris - if he was actually an intelligent man he would have shown himself capable of fulfilling his brief at the foreign  office,  which he most definitely did not.

Edited by stuartbert two hats

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And then there's Boris's vanity projects whilst Mayor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Woffy said:

And then there's Boris's vanity projects whilst Mayor.

And his water cannon which he bought before finding out whether it was legal to use them, which nobody would buy.

The man's fucking useless, he's not a genius pretending to be a buffoon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

 

The man's fucking useless, he's not a genius pretending to be a buffoon.

Correct. But he's also a man with an Eton Old Boy's sense of entitlement and connections, which explains his success.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...