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kalifire

Brexit at Glasto?

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2 minutes ago, hfuhruhurr said:

Corbyn will try everything to bring down the government

And I'm sure feels perfectly justified in doing so, but it feeds back into one of the fundamental problems the left has, which is that their hatred of the Tories stops sometimes stops them from acting in the interest of the country. Brexit is a classic example. Corbyn should have bent over backwards to work with May to try and find a consensus, but stubbornly refused until she met his red lines, all the while criticising her for not moving the government's.

If working with the Tories is too much to stomach, what about other opposition parties? They've all been in broad agreement throughout this, and along with Tory rebels and Labour, could have formed a parliamentary majority over a number of things, but Labour have refused to whip, abstained and generally been obstructionist in the name of wanting to be the Official Opposition and get power.

And now this flounce over Chuka Umunna, which isn't just unhelpful, it's infantile.

We've come a long way since the cries of 'Oh Jeremy Corbyn' in June 2017.

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4 minutes ago, kalifire said:

If working with the Tories is too much to stomach, what about other opposition parties?

hey don't be too hard on Jez, he met with those other parties on Tuesday.

For a meeting they'd requested in January 2018. 

;) 

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31 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

It seems to be closer to 2000 a minute now. Extraordinary!

 

Not that it'll help - but at least it's something. Will of the people innit? 

It's going up every second! Over 500000 now.

Better to do something than to do nothing! Who knows what this petition could achieve!? If nothing else it is a public barometer for the feelings of a large number of 'the people'!

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ive tried signing it but the email hasn't come through :( and ive checked junk etc hopefully because of the large numbers signing it 

 

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4 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

ive tried signing it but the email hasn't come through :( and ive checked junk etc hopefully because of the large numbers signing it 

 

Have you any other address to try? Mine came through quickly on Gmail.

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I've just signed it, thanks for posting. Will share around too. Seriously thinking about going to the march, but not sure what it will achieve at this point :(

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13 minutes ago, carlosj said:

Have you any other address to try? Mine came through quickly on Gmail.

duh don't know why I didn't think of that :) ... instant on gmail ... dont know why hotmail didn't work . thanks 

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1 hour ago, hfuhruhurr said:

Throughout their existence, Labour has swung from the middle to the left and back. While on the left, they don't get elected, when they swing back into the middle, they win

This is a ahistorical. Labour has always been built as a left wing party, look at the original clause 4. Their greatest electoral victory in 1945 came under a socialist government, their victories in the 60s and 70s were under left wing leaders. Its always been a battle of ideas between democratic socialists and social democrats, but Blairism was a complete abberration and part of a global shift to the right. Globally it is shifting back to the left and you can see that by the lack of support for so called centrist politicians in Europe and US

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1 minute ago, Scott129 said:

This is a ahistorical. Labour has always been built as a left wing party, look at the original clause 4. Their greatest electoral victory in 1945 came under a socialist government, their victories in the 60s and 70s were under left wing leaders. Its always been a battle of ideas between democratic socialists and social democrats, but Blairism was a complete abberration and part of a global shift to the right. Globally it is shifting back to the left and you can see that by the lack of support for so called centrist politicians in Europe and US

We also need labour to restore its dominance in Scotland and push back the nationalists. To have a decent working majority they need to retake the traditional socialist seats especially in central Scotland. Trouble is the nationalist vote,  in my opinion, is like a cult with a single objective  whereas the opposition is split three ways . Labour used to rely on over 40 seats up here. 

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1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

Me, I'd say the stick he gets is all part of the same thing he demonstrated last night.

That leadership is beyond his abilities.

Like when he forgot my MP was off-sick with cancer when he appointed her to a party position, and then forgot to tell her he'd replaced her when he realised she was off sick.

Like when he took a holiday during the EUref campaign.

Like 3 years of him saying he'll deal with the AS issue.

Like when he recently 'forgot' to write a letter in the way he'd agreed in Shadow Cabinet.

Like when lines go missing from his speeches.

Like when he's undermined other shadow cabinet ministers by saying something different to the agreed position.

Like when he voted against the policy of the party he leads.

Etc, etc, etc. It's a very VERY long list.

These are hardly crimes of the century. Who cares about most of those?

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I think the petition site has crashed. 

Or is it the Main Stream Media full of Liberal Elites oppressing the will of the people?!?! 

*puts colander back on head*

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13 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

Their greatest electoral victory in 1945 came under a socialist government

their greatest electoral victory came after a war, uin a time of hugely different culture (including before the proven failure of the socialist ideal of the time - including the leftist ideals of that 1945 govt as demonstrated when they were kicked from power 6 years later).

It's not exactly hugely relevant in 2019 - 75 years later - is it?

13 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

their victories in the 60s and 70s were under left wing leaders.

In Corbynista terms, Wilson would class as a solid Blairite.

13 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

Blairism was a complete abberration

The Iraq war was. Nothing else.

(that's not saying that everything else worked out for the best, but that will never happen under any leader).

13 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

and part of a global shift to the right.

by going to the left of where things were when he took over...? :blink: 

Blair was a w*nker, but the re-writing of history by some is laughable.

 

13 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

Globally it is shifting back to the left and you can see that by the lack of support for so called centrist politicians in Europe and US

In europe the centrists rule and 'the left' are nowhere, apart from in Italy where the right are in charge. As they are in the USA, where the left )a real left!) is hugely-less popular than Trump.

 

Edited by eFestivals

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2 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

These are hardly crimes of the century. Who cares about most of those?

anyone who wants some leadership out of the shit we're in? :blink: 

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1 hour ago, Tommy Dickfingers said:

He’s an idiot. His fake moral principles always raise a smile. For me he can’t be forgiven for disappearing during the referendum campaign. We need a real leader of the opposition and all we have is a 6th form politics student who never grew up. 

Centrists have been so obsessed with Corbyn over the past two years they seem to have no analysis to offer about anything other than "Corbyn is shit" and "everything is Corbyn's fault". Brexit? Corbyn's fault! No second referendum? Corbyn's fault! It's so tedious and superficial. 

  • Upvote 1

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3 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Centrists have been so obsessed with Corbyn over the past two years they seem to have no analysis to offer about anything other than "Corbyn is shit" and "everything is Corbyn's fault". Brexit? Corbyn's fault! No second referendum? Corbyn's fault! It's so tedious and superficial. 

but corbyn *IS* shit.

He's spent the last few weeks berating May for not talking to other parties or listening to them.

Meanwhile, Tuesday just gone, he's just had his first meeting with other parties - a meeting requested by those parties in January 2018 - where he didn't listen to them.

But hey, he'll deal with it, right? :lol: 

Edited by eFestivals

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8 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Yep, catching up fast though:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions

 

10 minutes ago, Sawdusty Surfer said:

Petition site seems to have been overwhelmed!

 

 

Screenshot (368).png

Yeh, I tried too and couldn't get on with Stu's link, just got a "bad gateway"....but then got to it another way, signed up and then got "bad gateway" again when I pressed submit. No email

But I guess that means the petition has gone crazy....which I assume is good?

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2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

anyone who wants some leadership out of the shit we're in? :blink: 

Define leadership in this situation- by that you mean Corbyn should 'lead' by adopting the policy you want. If Yvonne Cooper became leader over night and declared labour must back May's deal, or that Labour should be pushing or a hard brexit, would you be praising her 'leadership'?

In the current parliament, with their being no government majority, MPs and particularly rebellious MP's have the power because it only takes a few to rebel to render any motion unpassable- makes 'leading' any party a nightmare. As soon as Corbyn adopts a position, labour MP's rebel- whether it be the 20 to 30 who oppose a referendum, or the 20 or so who demand a referendum. May's (as much as I despise her) is in a similar bind, which is why we keep getting all the ambiguity and flipping back and forth.

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12 minutes ago, Sawdusty Surfer said:

Petition site seems to have been overwhelmed!

 

 

Screenshot (368).png

Half expecting our tv screens to go blank and then an army general festooned in medals to appear telling us nothing will change but stay in your houses until we tell you. Then we will have hours of Mumford and sons until the next announcement. 

  • Upvote 2

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4 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Define leadership in this situation

for a start, not all of the things I listed above, which is a list of failure of leadership.

I could make a much much MUCH longer list.

Hey, perhaps if he'd not gone on holiday during the EUref we wouldn't be brexiting?

But Corbyn's happy we're brexiting. It's probably why he went on holiday, and didn't try to convert anyone when he was 'campaigning'..

Edited by eFestivals

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