Brexit at Glasto?

[parsonjack]

The irony in the last sentence of this is utter comedy... ?

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/local-news/brexit-ferry-protest-plymouth-no-2677855

[stuartbert two hats]

12 minutes ago, parsonjack said:

The irony in the last sentence of this is utter comedy... ?

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/local-news/brexit-ferry-protest-plymouth-no-2677855

The whole article was hilarious!

[hfuhruhurr]

maybe I've been a bit slow on the uptake (drop the maybe), but IDS on the Marr show: ERG want backstop resolved with border down Irish Sea; DUP with hard border in Ireland. So although they both oppose the backstop, their solutions are opposite and so trust is at a zero.

Going to be an interesting week. It's all in Corbyn's court, he has a chance to be more than a protester.

[mcshed]

32 minutes ago, hfuhruhurr said:

Going to be an interesting week. It's all in Corbyn's court, he has a chance to be more than a protester.

How is it all in his court? I may be missing something but I really don't see him as being in control of the situation.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, mcshed said:

How is it all in his court? I may be missing something but I really don't see him as being in control of the situation.

not in control of the situation, but he is the person with (supposedly) the biggest set of MPs behind his position.

All we need to know now is what his position is. Every day he finds a new position to avoid being committed to anything at all.

The only position that seems to make sense is that he's trying to cause a no-deal brexit.

[mcshed]

35 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

not in control of the situation, but he is the person with (supposedly) the biggest set of MPs behind his position.

All we need to know now is what his position is. Every day he finds a new position to avoid being committed to anything at all.

The only position that seems to make sense is that he's trying to cause a no-deal brexit.

He will have to support some of the options in the indicative votes but it is far from clear that he could bring enough MPs with him for a 2nd referendum for example.

It is certainly a huge week for him and for Brexit but to say that it is all in his court seems to be grossly exaggerated the power he wields in this situation. The ball is as it ever is mostly under the government's control. Corbyn doesn't have a fix Brexit button that he is refusing to press.

 

[eFestivals]

11 minutes ago, mcshed said:

Corbyn doesn't have a fix Brexit button that he is refusing to press.

True. Shame the Corbynistas can't take the same view about "Blairites".

Meanwhile, back in Corbynland, he keeps on finding every reason to dodge following thru on that Conference commitment.

And the WA he won't vote for is the WA his own plan would require him to vote for.

I can only add that up as hard brexit.

[mcshed]

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

True. Shame the Corbynistas can't take the same view about "Blairites".

Eh?

[eFestivals]

20 minutes ago, mcshed said:

Eh?

Corbyn doesn't vote against stuff he says he opposes.

Blairites didn't vote (just the once) against austerity, and that's supposedly the worst crime ever in the eyes of the cult.

[Mr.Tease]

29 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

True. Shame the Corbynistas can't take the same view about "Blairites".

Meanwhile, back in Corbynland, he keeps on finding every reason to dodge following thru on that Conference commitment.

And the WA he won't vote for is the WA his own plan would require him to vote for.

I can only add that up as hard brexit.

The plan is:

Preference for general election, but if that's not possible:

1) push for soft, norway style brexit as that has the most chance of winning enough tories and not alienating 20-50 labour MPs in leave seats.

2) vote for confirmatory referendum if may's deal passes (same reasons as above)- might even tag that on to the above too. Again, this may be difficult as there isn't a majority in house of commons for a referendum- it's best chance is tagged on to either Norway or mays deal.

That's the conference motion and is your best shot of stopping May's deal or a harder brexit, unless you have a magic strategy that's better? (and if so, genuinely, what is it?)

[Mr.Tease]

2 hours ago, hfuhruhurr said:

maybe I've been a bit slow on the uptake (drop the maybe), but IDS on the Marr show: ERG want backstop resolved with border down Irish Sea; DUP with hard border in Ireland. So although they both oppose the backstop, their solutions are opposite and so trust is at a zero.

Going to be an interesting week. It's all in Corbyn's court, he has a chance to be more than a protester.

It's in Tory MPs hands, but as usual centrists remainers would rather focus on Corbyn than on the actual people who are vital, unless you have some sort of ingenious strategy whereby Corbyn has a majority of MPs in the house of commons?

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

The plan is:

The plan once-upon-a-time said that things moved on when stuff was locked out.

Corbyn won't move it on.  

 

 

4 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

That's the conference motion 

no it's not.

It's the Corbynistas' free-passing of Corbyn for not sticking to what was agreed.

[Mr.Tease]

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Corbyn doesn't vote against stuff he says he opposes.

Blairites didn't vote (just the once) against austerity, and that's supposedly the worst crime ever in the eyes of the cult.

Blairites were in favour of austerity- the abstention on the welfare bill was just a symbol/tipping point (I never actually gave a shit about them abstaining, my issue was with the overall strategy of offering not arguing against austerity, just as your gripe isn't with Corbyn not holding a vote for a second vote so far (because you know it doesn't have the numbers), but because you want him to offer more resistance to Brexit.

Cult, Corbyn's shit, blah blah blah- tedious

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

It's in Tory MPs hands

That's bollocks. Same as the tories, Corbyn has to vote *for* something.

They all have a single vote.

[Mr.Tease]

Just now, eFestivals said:

The plan once-upon-a-time said that things moved on when stuff was locked out.

Corbyn won't move it on.  

 

 

no it's not.

It's the Corbynistas' free-passing of Corbyn for not sticking to what was agreed.

he has moved on- Labour will now back a second referendum as a confirmation vote on mays deal. 

[Mr.Tease]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

That's bollocks. Same as the tories, Corbyn has to vote *for* something.

They all have a single vote.

Corbyn and Labour can all vote for something but they don't have a majority- they need Tory MPs votes, that's just a fact

Edited March 25, 2019 by Mr.Tease

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Blairites were in favour of austerity

Unless you know a guy handing out free money for the UK, so is Corbyn in favour of the UK only spending money it has.

Edited March 25, 2019 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Just now, Mr.Tease said:

he has moved on- Labour will now back a second referendum as a confirmation vote on mays deal. 

so what you mean is that he keeps on finding ways to avoid backing the simple 2nd vote that a minute ago you said was the plan.

Yes, some of us have noticed.

[Mr.Tease]

Just now, eFestivals said:

Unless you know a guy handing out free money for the UK, so it Corbyn.  

 

 

Sorry, are you arguing that Blairites were or weren't against Austerity?

[hfuhruhurr]

First, the Tories are so far up themselves that no solution will come from them - they are split.

Labour has the ability to step in and unite parliament with remain, but they choose not to. And, from this "centrist remainer", I fear that Corbyn would prefer the "destroy & rebuild" to get a socialist govt. than to back remain. The ONLY political issue is Brexit - nothing else matters. And remaining is the ONLY solution. Anyone who wants a different outcome, please, please, please tell me what exactly it is they want?

[Mr.Tease]

Just now, eFestivals said:

so what you mean is that he keeps on finding ways to avoid backing the simple 2nd vote that a minute ago you said was the plan.

Yes, some of us have noticed.

A straight up second referendum won't get the numbers (20-30 labour MPs won't back it because they're in leave seats), one tagged on to a confirmation of a deal has a better chance- you know this so I don't know why you're pretending you don't (well I suspect it's probably just so you can say Corbyn's shit again)

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Corbyn and Labour can all vote for something but the don't have a majority- they need Tory MPs votes, that's just a fact

Yep. Same as when the Blairites didn't vote against tory austerity, they needed tory votes to stop it.
(and also, the public had just voted for something shit, same as n5the public has voted for something shit with brexit).

Except then it's not a fact, it's a hanging offence.  

I'm just pointing out the triangulation by Jez and the Corbynistas.

[Mr.Tease]

Just now, hfuhruhurr said:

First, the Tories are so far up themselves that no solution will come from them - they are split.

Labour has the ability to step in and unite parliament with remain, but they choose not to. And, from this "centrist remainer", I fear that Corbyn would prefer the "destroy & rebuild" to get a socialist govt. than to back remain. The ONLY political issue is Brexit - nothing else matters. And remaining is the ONLY solution. Anyone who wants a different outcome, please, please, please tell me what exactly it is they want?

labour doesn't have a majority, hate to break it to you- you need a majority to pass legislation. Every Labour MP could vote for something and they wouldn't have a majority. they need Tory remainers to vote with them. This isn't rocket science.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Sorry, are you arguing that Blairites were or weren't against Austerity?

I'm saying the only vote is to use the available resources whether it's Blairites or Corbyn.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, hfuhruhurr said:

Labour has the ability to step in and unite parliament with remain, but they choose not to.

This ^^