So what did late night entertainment consist of pre SE corner?

[Gnomicide]

On 2/25/2019 at 6:16 PM, fatyeti24 said:

I have a DVD of Glastonbury the Movie which has loads of extra footage on it.  It features a few minutes of the raves in the markets.  It was filmed in 1993.  

I've looked online and not seen it uploaded anywhere - it must be quite hard to copy as it's one of those early DVD things where an icon appears in the corner, you press enter, and it interjects the footage into the main film.  But if you can be arsed to seek it out it's well worth a watch.

Of course it also has footage of Evan Dando crashing people's campfires with his guitar, which was largely unavoidable late night 'entertainment' for a few years in the early 90s.

It's on Amazon, free if you have Prime but lacks the extras.

[MrHew]

I miss people selling hash truffles. They were everywhere. 

[Ayrshire Chris]

1 hour ago, MrHew said:

I miss people selling hash truffles. They were everywhere. 

I don’t, bought one once and it was all truffle and no hash. Though maybe the six cans of Stella had numbed the senses . 

[LeeHC]

14 hours ago, Glastoboy said:

@LeeHC. I'm going to come to Yogs defence here a bit. They started off by saying they wish everyone could experience both and I understand this, I'd love to be able to hop into a time machine and experience it again myself - and take a modern day newbie.

The comparison to it nowadays being as homogenous as a fair ground or Costa is a bit harsh but they are comparing it to a Glastonbury that was a great deal more like a chaotic wild west than the national cultural beacon it is today. It used to be counterculture and today it is mentioned in the same sentence as Wimbledon and Glyndebourne.

Also, the oft-repeated joke/comment that the festival isn't as good as it used to be probably started in 1971. As Neil pointed out, he feels that another landmark change was in the early nighties when the travellers were thrown out and the "mainstream" arrived and he's probably right about that.

The great thing for me is that Michael Eavis set this whole thing up, stuck with it through good and bad and it looks to set to continue indefinitely.

If I were to have one moan about the modern day Glastonbury, it's all the rich tossers and the glamping. I reckon if you went back in time and tried to explain this was the future to any festival goer 1970-2000 they would be pretty disgusted at the thought.

I agree with all of this- I just thinks not necessary to therefore assume it was 'better'. Maybe it is was meant tongue in cheek but it didn't seem that way.

[LeeHC]

13 hours ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

Hello LeeHC,

I just don't understand how my post could be construed as rude to 'newbies'. It was certainly not my intention to be rude. You say that the word offensive may be strong, but rude more appropriate, yet you are offering me no information as to how it could be construed as such. I do not like to offend anyone.It really is not my MO. So, it would be good to know where I have gone wrong on this one, so could do with your help, if that's OK with you ie. can you explain a little more fully?

I know how it is now because I've seen how it is now ie. I didn't give up on Glastonbury 15 years ago. 

As I said to Clarkete - all I would wish is that today's Glastonbury goers could also have experienced what it was like before late night entertainment was laid on by GFL, and that then they could have had both experiences.

 

It's probably just a matter of interpretation. I totally get that it was very different then and that those who got to see then and now are lucky to have had that chance- but you say ' there's no way on the planet that it's current incarnation would even be in the same league as it's previous one.'. i.e the kids these days have no idea what a real festival is like. Why denigrate their experience? I just find this like of thought a bit tiresome and in the same mindset as 'kids these days have it so easy' type nonsense. 

If all you meant is you wish they could see both then and now, then great, but it didn't read like that. 

You also said 'The reason why I have given up on Glastonbury (which I have)'- if you haven't given up on it then great, but I'm confused as you said you did?

[LeeHC]

14 hours ago, Johnnyseven said:

I totally agree. I didn't go back when it was like the wild west but it's very different now to how it was in the late 90's. In the 90's festivals were generally attended by people who were into certain musical genres or lived a certain way of life, now everyone wants to go. Now all you see is people pretending to not be upset by the fact their chosen massive top 10, million selling acts aren't headlining, I don't think I even knew who was playing when I went in the 90's. Glastonbury has become too easy IMO.

Too easy in what way? It's certainly not too easy to get tickets!!

I can't really say that 'all you see if people pretending to be upset by the fact their chosen act is playing' reflects my experience. That might be what the media blahs on about and I'm sure there is some of that- but people of that mindset stay glued to the pyramid, go elsewhere on site and the counter-culture influence is still strong- all the green fields/ greenpeace / unfairground/ shanri-la etc is as far from mass produced, corporate rubbish as I can imagine!

[uscore]

I think the Pandora's Box Principle applies.  There's loads of thing in modern festivals that you'd miss the further back in time you'd travel.  Toilets, proper entertainment, drainage, I dunno there has to be loads of things you take for granted now.   I mean, there were some great adventures to be had when you lost your friends and had no mobile phone to help meet up again but I don't see many too people voluntarily not taking a mobile phone to recreate those heady days.

 

[Keithy]

I think it's always hard to compare different era's of anything. Nostalgia and personal experiences are terrible for blinding perceptions. We generally only remember the good things, hence the oft 'not as good as it used to be'.

I've always thought of Glastonbury has 4 era's rather than 2.

1. Original traveller 70/80's, CND, etc

2. Post traveller 90's, emergence of new era of British Music (Britpop, Chems, Prodigy, Underworld, etc) and a more mainstream, youthful crowd.

3. Start of super fence in the 00's and a much safer, organised environment and more middle aged and families attending.

4. Huge headliner era of 10's and the festival establishing itself as a national cultural event.

Will be interesting to see how it develops in the 20's, particularly as other festivals are struggling and starting to fall by the wayside. The new Arcadia, Block 9, etc are perhaps an indication of focusing more on the outer areas of the festival rather than main stages?

 

[drunk pumpkin]

On 2/25/2019 at 7:24 PM, Keithy said:

I feel very lucky in that the festival has aged with me. I couldn't deal with pre fence Glastonbury now but the current incarnation is very agreeable with me. Whether that's a good thing is a discussion.

I hate for it to get any more comfortable. I think it's quite a positive thing that I find some of the SE corner a bit alien to me. 

Green Fields is quite a nice late area but it's all about Park and Crows Nest for me these days. Get up the hill at 11 and then it's a downhill stumble home at 2am.

Saying that, I would love to go in NYC Downlow, etc but I know in my heart that I'd just be adding to the tourist crowd and I'd be taking the spot of someone stuck outside who'd genuinely love to be in there.

THIS!! 2019 is my 11th Glastonbury and i've seen it age with me.

I love the Green fields and the Crows Nest is now probably my favourite venue on site.

2017 i went with just my 12 year old and we hung out after the main bands in the GF's. It was a fantastic way to pass a couple of hours watching the festival start to wind down!

 

[paulshane]

1 hour ago, uscore said:

I think the Pandora's Box Principle applies.  There's loads of thing in modern festivals that you'd miss the further back in time you'd travel.  Toilets, proper entertainment, drainage, I dunno there has to be loads of things you take for granted now.   I mean, there were some great adventures to be had when you lost your friends and had no mobile phone to help meet up again but I don't see many too people voluntarily not taking a mobile phone to recreate those heady days.

 

Agreed, I guess it depends on your outlook, I've been to every festival since 1995 and its obviously a different beast these days, but I'm not sure I'd have the energy to 'do' say a 1998 event now I'm 'over forty'

The amusment of people openly selling drugs on the railway line is contrasted with rival gangs stabbing each other, or the mild concern of getting shot in crossfire.

The ability to camp almost anywhere is is contrasted by the lottery of your tent still being there, or thrown over the fence by wandering gangs of theives.

No mobile phones, but being unable to find your tent or friends and sleeping under a tree, cold and annoyed.

 

So, while its hardy a 'Costa Frachise' experience now, I am glad that I can wander with no purpose, but still arrange to meet my buddies at a bar/stage etc. I'm glad the drainage is better. I'm glad there are less opportunist theives turning up in gangs. But most of all, I'm glad the festival is still going

 

 

[Ayrshire Chris]

3 minutes ago, Keithy said:

I think it's always hard to compare different era's of anything. Nostalgia and personal experiences are terrible for blinding perceptions. We generally only remember the good things, hence the oft 'not as good as it used to be'.

I've always thought of Glastonbury has 4 era's rather than 2.

1. Original traveller 70/80's, CND, etc

2. Post traveller 90's, emergence of new era of British Music (Britpop, Chems, Prodigy, Underworld, etc) and a more mainstream, youthful crowd.

3. Start of super fence in the 00's and a much safer, organised environment and more middle aged and families attending.

4. Huge headliner era of 10's and the festival establishing itself as a national cultural event.

Will be interesting to see how it develops in the 20's, particularly as other festivals are struggling and starting to fall by the wayside. The new Arcadia, Block 9, etc are perhaps an indication of focusing more on the outer areas of the festival rather than main stages?

 

Got to agree with that. I have grown up with the festival and the first experience of it wasn’t attending but having a copy of the glastonbury early 70s triple album with bands such as the pink fairies, hawkwind etc. Nostalgia can blur reality. With so many attending a wide diversity of music and areas is important. One thing hasn’t changed, to quote a line from the Leylines first album

being sat in a field drinking cider in the sun, sat in a field having festival fun

[stuartbert two hats]

11 minutes ago, Keithy said:

I think it's always hard to compare different era's of anything. Nostalgia and personal experiences are terrible for blinding perceptions. We generally only remember the good things, hence the oft 'not as good as it used to be'.

I've always thought of Glastonbury has 4 era's rather than 2.

1. Original traveller 70/80's, CND, etc

2. Post traveller 90's, emergence of new era of British Music (Britpop, Chems, Prodigy, Underworld, etc) and a more mainstream, youthful crowd.

3. Start of super fence in the 00's and a much safer, organised environment and more middle aged and families attending.

4. Huge headliner era of 10's and the festival establishing itself as a national cultural event.

Will be interesting to see how it develops in the 20's, particularly as other festivals are struggling and starting to fall by the wayside. The new Arcadia, Block 9, etc are perhaps an indication of focusing more on the outer areas of the festival rather than main stages?

 

Way before my time, but I'd always thought of the 70s and 80s as being very different eras.  It was only when Eavis decided to retake control and involve the CND that it started to resemble the seeds of the modern festival.  More difference than between the 00s and 2010s I'd say.  The noughties had some pretty big headliners and it was already a cultural event by then.  I suspect that as the the undercards of old festival lineups look incredibly strong today, the actual headliners don't seem quite as impressive as they once were - R.E.M., for instance were huge at the time.  Although, I grant you the headliners in the last 10 years have been a bit stronger than the previous decade.

I do agree that this decade has seen the most stability in the festival, since after the introduction of The Park and the expansion of the SE Corner, it's not significantly changed much, having run out of space to expand.

[stuartbert two hats]

17 minutes ago, paulshane said:

Agreed, I guess it depends on your outlook, I've been to every festival since 1995 and its obviously a different beast these days, but I'm not sure I'd have the energy to 'do' say a 1998 event now I'm 'over forty'

The amusment of people openly selling drugs on the railway line is contrasted with rival gangs stabbing each other, or the mild concern of getting shot in crossfire.

The ability to camp almost anywhere is is contrasted by the lottery of your tent still being there, or thrown over the fence by wandering gangs of theives.

No mobile phones, but being unable to find your tent or friends and sleeping under a tree, cold and annoyed.

 

So, while its hardy a 'Costa Frachise' experience now, I am glad that I can wander with no purpose, but still arrange to meet my buddies at a bar/stage etc. I'm glad the drainage is better. I'm glad there are less opportunist theives turning up in gangs. But most of all, I'm glad the festival is still going

 

 

It's the crap drainage that concerns me more about re-doing 1998!  Infrastructure changes like that we tend to take for granted now, but back then you could have standing water that's deeper than your wellies, whilst stood at the Pyramid.  Even in 2007, there was none of that.  2014 was particularly impressive, when despite a thunderstorm that shut down the site (except The Glade  ?), most of the water run straight off into the ditched, then into underground pipes, leaving the site comparatively unscathed compared to years gone by.

[Bradders]

Yeah, I started going in 09, so the very late 00s, and although I’ve obviously seen it change, it’s very much the same festival.

I didn’t go before that as I thought it was a bit middle class and old for a teenage me. Post fence definitely all seems like one era.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Bradders

[uscore]

I went in 1999, so I can compare how the festival has changed since the last millenium.  I can confirm it has, significantly.  But also, in many ways, it was very similar.  Hope that clears things up.

[Mardy]

The 20 year old me loved the festival as it was. Wild, anarchic and full of bug-eyed hairy motherfuckers. Slightly (OK, pretty) terrifying.

The 46 year old me loves the festival as it is. A joyous riot of colour and creativity, but I'm not thinking about getting stabbed/sold some dodgy acid

 

The festival has grown up, as have I. There's no chance in hell I'd have taken my parents back in the late 80s/early 90s. Now, I'm more than happy to. I first went in 93, so maybe I'm one of the ones who was a later mainstream adopter, but it still had enough rough edges back then to have an slightly scary feel in places. As a middle-aged paunchy grey haired bucket hat wearing twat, I love what it is now, but if I were 18 now, I can't help but feel I'd be off to Boomtown.

 

 

[The Nal]

45 minutes ago, Mardy said:

The 20 year old me loved the festival as it was. Wild, anarchic and full of bug-eyed hairy motherfuckers. Slightly (OK, pretty) terrifying.

The 46 year old me loves the festival as it is. A joyous riot of colour and creativity, but I'm not thinking about getting stabbed/sold some dodgy acid

 

The festival has grown up, as have I. There's no chance in hell I'd have taken my parents back in the late 80s/early 90s. Now, I'm more than happy to. I first went in 93, so maybe I'm one of the ones who was a later mainstream adopter, but it still had enough rough edges back then to have an slightly scary feel in places. As a middle-aged paunchy grey haired bucket hat wearing twat, I love what it is now, but if I were 18 now, I can't help but feel I'd be off to Boomtown.

My first was 04 in a very nice campervan but theres still plenty of places with a bit of edge and places to go get totally fucked up though. Wandered through Silver Hayes and parts of the SE Corner very late doors over the last few years and there were people properly mashed, like really mashed in the wee small hours.

Girls crouching on steps while simultaneously crying, puking and pissing themselves and blokes lying on their backs in busy areas plank style who may or may not be dead, with hundreds casually stepping over them. It looked like the scene from Total Recall when they're running out of air.

[Mardy]

7 minutes ago, The Nal said:

My first was 04 in a very nice campervan but theres still plenty of places with a bit of edge and places to go get totally fucked up though. Wandered through Silver Hayes and parts of the SE Corner very late doors over the last few years and there were people properly mashed, like really mashed in the wee small hours.

Girls crouching on steps while simultaneously crying, puking and pissing themselves and blokes lying on their backs in busy areas plank style who may or may not be dead, with hundreds casually stepping over them. It looked like the scene from Total Recall when they're running out of air.

Sure, you can still find people properly out of it, but what you don’t get so much is that certain air of menace that permeated parts of the site. A genuine feeling of lawlessness. 

I’ll never forget sitting in the stone circle one sunny afternoon, and 2 coppers walking in the bottom of the field. The entire field stopped what they were doing and booed relentlessly until the coppers lost their bottle and retreated. At which point there was a measure cheer. Now, it’s all police in angel wings and flowers in their hair posing for selfies. 

 

I mean, that’s just a minor example, but there were definitely areas where you had to keep your wits about you. There was a shooting in 95, and everyone pretty much carried on. Now you’d have 1000s of people packing up and leaving the next morning . 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Mardy

[The Nal]

7 minutes ago, Mardy said:

Sure, you can still find people properly out of it, but what you don’t get so much is that certain air of menace that permeated parts of the site. A genuine feeling of lawlessness. 

I’ll never forget sitting in the stone circle one sunny afternoon, and 2 coppers walking in the bottom of the field. The entire field stopped what they were doing and booed relentlessly until the coppers lost their bottle and retreated. At which point there was a measure cheer. Now, it’s all police in angel wings and flowers in their hair posing for selfies. 

 

I mean, that’s just a minor example, but there were definitely areas where you had to keep your wits about you. There was a shooting in 95, and everyone pretty much carried on. Now you’d have 1000s of people packing up and leaving the next morning . 

5 people shot with a semi automatic! Michael Eavis described it as "our best festival ever". 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, The Nal said:

5 people shot with a semi automatic! Michael Eavis described it as "our best festival ever". 

wasn't that the same year that the dance tent was a bit ... erm ... shit?

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

4 hours ago, LeeHC said:

It's probably just a matter of interpretation. I totally get that it was very different then and that those who got to see then and now are lucky to have had that chance- but you say ' there's no way on the planet that it's current incarnation would even be in the same league as it's previous one.'. i.e the kids these days have no idea what a real festival is like. Why denigrate their experience? I just find this like of thought a bit tiresome and in the same mindset as 'kids these days have it so easy' type nonsense. 

If all you meant is you wish they could see both then and now, then great, but it didn't read like that. 

You also said 'The reason why I have given up on Glastonbury (which I have)'- if you haven't given up on it then great, but I'm confused as you said you did?

Hello LeeHC,

I think it's probably down to how the written word can be misinterpreted, and possibly because I didn't express myself well enough. The incarnation thing was meant to indicate that this was my opinion only. And it is my opinion, but that's all. I never said nor meant to imply that 'these kids have no idea what a real festival is like'. The kids today are having their festival, and their festival is their festival whether they find it a good or bad experience, although unless they take some bad acid or something then it's highly likely that they can only have a fantastic time at Glastonbury. I really did not intend to put up a divide between old bastards like myself and the youth of today. There are already too many divisions within society as it is, without me sticking my oar in trying to create another one.

The latter thing about me giving up on Glastonbury is just that - I've given up. Whether that is a long term thing or not, I don't know. I must say that it'll probably be hard to not do one last fandango for the 2020 anniversary celebrations, but after that, I doubt I'd go again. Which when you think of it is possibly good news for someone who may not have been before as there's one more ticket in the pot.

Anyway, I hope that we're OK now.

 

 

[LeeHC]

1 hour ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

Hello LeeHC,

I think it's probably down to how the written word can be misinterpreted, and possibly because I didn't express myself well enough. The incarnation thing was meant to indicate that this was my opinion only. And it is my opinion, but that's all. I never said nor meant to imply that 'these kids have no idea what a real festival is like'. The kids today are having their festival, and their festival is their festival whether they find it a good or bad experience, although unless they take some bad acid or something then it's highly likely that they can only have a fantastic time at Glastonbury. I really did not intend to put up a divide between old bastards like myself and the youth of today. There are already too many divisions within society as it is, without me sticking my oar in trying to create another one.

The latter thing about me giving up on Glastonbury is just that - I've given up. Whether that is a long term thing or not, I don't know. I must say that it'll probably be hard to not do one last fandango for the 2020 anniversary celebrations, but after that, I doubt I'd go again. Which when you think of it is possibly good news for someone who may not have been before as there's one more ticket in the pot.

Anyway, I hope that we're OK now.

 

 

Yes- of course! Equally I didn't mean to be such a social justice keyboard warrior!

And agreed, nothing can beat that wide-eyed feeling the first time you get there and discover this whole other world- totally unlike the 'real world'. I only hope the festival lasts long enough for todays newbies to eventually look back with nostalgia!

Edited February 27, 2019 by LeeHC
clarity

[Johnnyseven]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

wasn't that the same year that the dance tent was a bit ... erm ... shit?

That was 1998, i'm pretty sure the shooting was during Bjork's set a few years earlier.

[MrHew]

IIRC the shooting was in 94. Was just before my time. 

I've got to admit that I never really felt in any danger. Maybe I was too wide eyed and innocent to pick up on it. I just seem to remember a lot of colour, smiles and absolute madness. 

[eFestivals]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the outdoor cinema, have they? 

That was one late-night 'organised' thing back in the day. I went quite a few times tho I'm not sure that i ever managed to stay for a whole film, it always seemed to be freezing.