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2021 Lineup


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3 minutes ago, VCK said:

Your argument seems to be "I prefer X to Y, so X should be higher on the line up than Y". I remember feeling the same when they booked The Killers to sub over QOTSA in 2005. In retrospect, The Killers were a bigger draw than QOTSA (and always have been, really) so that's why they got the higher placing.

There are six sub slots and Wolf Alice could easily fill one of them, maybe before QOTSA.

Also rapping does require quite a bit of talent. Listen to some of the classic artists from the 80s and 90s. Capaldi is shite though, and is more known for his "funny" social media posts, I'll give you that.

No I mean I like Dave and Stormzy because theres just something different about them. And i like 80s and 90s rap, your Public Enemy etc. But the people ive mentioned are unlike that, AJ Tracey and DaBaby are not like that, its like i said backing tracks. And yes Wolf Alice could sub Queens, but from the looks of it it will be Libertines and Gerry Cinnamon, again a couple of dull bookings

Iv'e said i like Capaldi, but his music is not that that i want to hear at Reading

Edited by Gerard the Fab
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2 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

People go on about the gender balance at R&L every year but I don’t think enough people praise them for the racial diversity they have in their lineups year on year. That really is something worthy of more praise than it gets. 

Why can’t we have both?

I said to my mum that stormzy is a good headline booking because it brings racial diversity in challenging times and a lot of young people look up to him, but similarly a lot of young people look up to female artists and there’s no reason why we can’t achieve diversity in gender and race here, as well as musical talent.

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To me, wolf alice are a headline in this pool, or at least co-headline with catfish. I saw them headline truck last year and they put on a better show than I’ve ever seen catfish do before. It was really awesome.

Maybe they will be offered a sub position, but I think it’s unlikely given the current line up position, but if they are offered 3rd down I hope they don’t take it as I think that would be a bit insulting to their status and performance quality.

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2 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

People go on about the gender balance at R&L every year but I don’t think enough people praise them for the racial diversity they have in their lineups year on year. That really is something worthy of more praise than it gets. 

Not to open a can of worms here, but if we were to go down the whole privilege discourse route, I'd say Dua Lipa, Haim, Florence, Ellie Rowsell, Billie Eilish and most of the female names bandied about are all white women from middle class backgrounds, while Stormzy is a black man from a working class background so surely he is "lower on the privilege stack" than them, for want of a better phrase.

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5 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

People go on about the gender balance at R&L every year but I don’t think enough people praise them for the racial diversity they have in their lineups year on year. That really is something worthy of more praise than it gets. 

Oh no I agree completely its excellent they can achieve that but surely if they can get racial diversity, they can get gender diversity too?

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10 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Why can’t we have both?

I said to my mum that stormzy is a good headline booking because it brings racial diversity in challenging times and a lot of young people look up to him, but similarly a lot of young people look up to female artists and there’s no reason why we can’t achieve diversity in gender and race here, as well as musical talent.

At no point did I say that we can’t have both, what I’m saying is that we don’t have to ignore one because of the other. 

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11 minutes ago, gfa said:

Haim are never headlining R&L, the crowd would be tiny. Catfish would bring a much bigger crowd in than Wolf Alice too, its sad but its definitely true

Catfish didn't manage to sell out there day at neighbourhood festival in 2020, also not for the 2021 edition. A festival which is only 20k capacity. Quite a big jump to a festival the size of reading and leeds.

I really like Catfish though, so glad they are playing.

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Heres a list of all artists in big positions (top 4 MS, top 3 R1, headlining any other stage) that are racially diverse in the last 5 festivals (not including 2021)

2020: Stormzy, Migos, RATM?, DBE, Slowthai?, RTJ, Headie One, AJ Tracey, Fever 333, Jpegmafia, Danny Brown, M Huncho, Denzel Curry (13)

2019: Anderson Paak, Dave, Fredo, Stefflon Don, Octavian, Not3s (6)

2018: Travis Scott, Nines, Kendrick Lamar, N.E.R.D, Wizkid, Wretch 32, J Hus, AJ Tracey, Mist (9)

2017: Giggs, Torey Lanez, Danny Brown, Bugzy Malone, Flatbush Zombies (5)

2016: BBK, Asap Rocky, Nas, DJ EZ, Wiley Kano, Stormzy (6)

 

And in the same years, this is the female acts in the same positions.

2020: Girl in Red, Mahalia, Sports Team (3)

2019: Billie Eilish (played 5th, but on co head day), the Distillers, Stefflon Don, Pvris (4)

2018: Panic (sort of, female touring member), Dua Lipa, Wolf Alice, Annie Mac, Hannah Wants, Kate Nash (6)

2017: Haim, Halsey (2) - quick note, main stage had Pvris and Against the Current as the highest female fronted bands at 6th down

2016: Chvrches (1)

 

Now bare in mind that there are 33 slots here. That means the rest are filled by white males. In 2016, 26 of the top spots where white males

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40 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

To me, wolf alice are a headline in this pool, or at least co-headline with catfish. I saw them headline truck last year and they put on a better show than I’ve ever seen catfish do before. It was really awesome.

Maybe they will be offered a sub position, but I think it’s unlikely given the current line up position, but if they are offered 3rd down I hope they don’t take it as I think that would be a bit insulting to their status and performance quality.

And this is where the problem could lie, bands turning down slots because they believe their worth is more!  Bands should just fucking want to play festivals and be apart of it sadly this is why the indie rock scene is failing currently and the grime rap scene is thriving

all the colabs that happen, how all the acts in that scene support each other even when you look at the one xtra stage it just always seems so stacked of acts and I really do believe band egos is a deep rooted issue these days, they would rather be seen as better than another band than help promote each other 

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2 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

What on Earth do you mean that Billie co-headlined last year? She played fifth down. 

No i mean there was a co headline that day so she appears 4th down on the poster when in reality she played 5th down

 

2 minutes ago, Jericode said:

And I thought people arguing that Travis Scott co-headlined because of font size were pushing it.

He subbed and thats included in the top 4 of the MS

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Just now, Gerard the Fab said:

Subbed and thats included in the top 4 of the MS

My point wasn't aimed at you specifically, I just thought you were implying what Andre said, now you've clarified what you meant it makes sense.

There are a lot of people who say Scott co-headlined though when he was never billed as such.

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1 minute ago, Jericode said:

My point wasn't aimed at you specifically, I just thought you were implying what Andre said, now you've clarified what you meant it makes sense.

There are a lot of people who say Scott co-headlined though when he was never billed as such.

In my eyes he was a sub as I think most people agree with on here

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7 minutes ago, heartsink said:

And this is where the problem could lie, bands turning down slots because they believe their worth is more!  Bands should just fucking want to play festivals and be apart of it sadly this is why the indie rock scene is failing currently and the grime rap scene is thriving

all the colabs that happen, how all the acts in that scene support each other even when you look at the one xtra stage it just always seems so stacked of acts and I really do believe band egos is a deep rooted issue these days, they would rather be seen as better than another band than help promote each other 

On the contrary, I think a lot of guitar rock bands lack ego these days. Having ego didn't hurt the likes of Oasis, The Stone Roses, The Smiths, the Manics, Smashing Pumpkins, Tool or The Clash. Having an ego as a musician isn't a bad thing as it affords  ballsiness to the music. Rock artists in 2020 are too nicey nicey, "happy to be there", and play it safe, while rappers on the other hand aren't and that's why their success matches their ambition.

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still find it ridiculous this guy hasn’t been booked, I’m hoping it’s due to the fact he will remain a APE exclusive next year along with some of the other acts like touted to headline like Billie, Haim (play o2 in June so maybe not) it gives the feel as it’s their own show but with spectacular support bands it would then make the bookings of catfish and disclosure more understandable.

thinking about it you may well see dua lipa at parklife or wireless as a exclusive and Florence might get her own Hyde park show, bmth could be planning on tramlines or even there own summer shows I believe arctic monkeys will be doing a solo show in Sheffield so big year for Sheffield gigs on the horizon, so its only really untill stuff starts to get announced will we understand the line up it could may well turn out to be the best they could pull together 

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54 minutes ago, heartsink said:

And this is where the problem could lie, bands turning down slots because they believe their worth is more!  Bands should just fucking want to play festivals and be apart of it sadly this is why the indie rock scene is failing currently and the grime rap scene is thriving

all the colabs that happen, how all the acts in that scene support each other even when you look at the one xtra stage it just always seems so stacked of acts and I really do believe band egos is a deep rooted issue these days, they would rather be seen as better than another band than help promote each other 

 

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1 hour ago, thetime said:

Catfish didn't manage to sell out there day at neighbourhood festival in 2020, also not for the 2021 edition. A festival which is only 20k capacity. Quite a big jump to a festival the size of reading and leeds.

I really like Catfish though, so glad they are playing.

Nor citadel, but they have done big london festivals 3 years in a row and were doing a 4th in 2020. They definitely sell a lot of tickets each year so I would say its not completely out of place. Way more than Wolf Alice/HAIM to the target audience anyway if not overall

1 hour ago, Jericode said:

And I thought people arguing that Travis Scott co-headlined because of font size were pushing it.

Most of my friends just remember him as headlining since it was dark at the end and they didn't go to fall out boy

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26 minutes ago, Benj said:

 

Great analogy and couldn’t agree more with it, sadly that’s the way bands especially the younger ones seem to think these days I know josh from YM@6 has spoken out about it and I’ve noticed the brave forward steps they have took in a change of direction with the new single it will certainly be exciting to see which way that goes although we can all guess.
 

In another topic bet it’s horrible to feel pigeon holed into one style of music enter have been great pioneers for that throughout their careers and BMTH have just took that to another level but when you look into that, that is a small circle of bands that have supported each other for years and that’s great for them but why aren’t others following, it’s fucking madness.

but yeah man the crab theory definitely makes sense to the shitty line ups at festivals these days instead of saying yeah we will play I bet it goes along the lines of where will we be playing who’s above us, oh really those guys are subbing and we are mid day? It’s okay we will leave it ask us when we can headline 😂😂 

 

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Oh well, another year away for me then. Just a couple points, both the stages side by side and opposite have been used and worked. The side by side thing makes for a more music filled day with a more pleasant experience for festival goers. The stages opposite thing is good for the organisers who have to put on less music and have a horde of people walking past secondary income outlets after every act. It's also good for "turtles" who have a seat strapped to their arse all day. They just sit in the middle and spin round when an act changes. I suspect that will be what happens purely because R/L is a cash milking machine.

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2 hours ago, FestivalJamie said:

To me, wolf alice are a headline in this pool, or at least co-headline with catfish. I saw them headline truck last year and they put on a better show than I’ve ever seen catfish do before. It was really awesome.

Maybe they will be offered a sub position, but I think it’s unlikely given the current line up position, but if they are offered 3rd down I hope they don’t take it as I think that would be a bit insulting to their status and performance quality.

I really like Wolf Alice and think they're great live but they wouldn't attract a crowd as big as catb/sell as many tickets as them. 

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