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Ryan Adams

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7 minutes ago, stylishkids said:

Defending the man by seeing he's a complete dick who I won't be listening to his music anytime soon :suicide:

My gripe has been with the NY times by incinuating he purposefully went after an underage girl. A 40 year old shouldn't be hooking up with an 18 year old but it's not against the law to. Mick Jagger shouldn't be sleeping around with someone who's 43 years younger than him but it's not against the law.

He's clearly used his fame to sleep with the women in the article. Hell he's probably tried it on with others who've spurned his chances. I'd hazard a guess Laura Marlings one of them after her tweet too. He's a dick. I just don't like how the articles been written. 

He knew she was probably underage and made r Kelly jokes. Come on

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9 minutes ago, stylishkids said:

Defending the man by seeing he's a complete dick who I won't be listening to his music anytime soon :suicide:

My gripe has been with the NY times by incinuating he purposefully went after an underage girl. A 40 year old shouldn't be hooking up with an 18 year old but it's not against the law to. Mick Jagger shouldn't be sleeping around with someone who's 43 years younger than him but it's not against the law.

He's clearly used his fame to sleep with the women in the article. Hell he's probably tried it on with others who've spurned his chances. I'd hazard a guess Laura Marlings one of them after her tweet too. He's a dick. I just don't like how the articles been written. 

Neither is controlling, manipulative behaviour against a partner, exposing her to mental suffering that impacts her life choices, relationships and career. But hey, it's not illegal. 

The whole MeToo movement, women speaking up, etc isn't a nauanced discuss about what is and isn't illegal. 

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1 minute ago, Keithy said:

Neither is controlling, manipulative behaviour against a partner, exposing her to mental suffering that impacts her life choices, relationships and career. But hey, it's not illegal. 

The whole MeToo movement, women speaking up, etc isn't a nauanced discuss about what is and isn't illegal. 

Yup. If his defence is that he does emotionally and mentally abuse his partners and try to manipulate younger women to sleep with him, BUT THATS NOT ILLEGAL, good luck to him

Edited by zahidf

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3 minutes ago, Keithy said:

Neither is controlling, manipulative behaviour against a partner, exposing her to mental suffering that impacts her life choices, relationships and career. But hey, it's not illegal. 

The whole MeToo movement, women speaking up, etc isn't a nauanced discuss about what is and isn't illegal. 

Sorry you’ll have to divert me to the point where I was sticking up for his controlling, manipulative behaviour. 

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5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

He knew she was probably underage and made r Kelly jokes. Come on

Stuff like this just reinforces how many people come into these arguments in bad faith.

The bloke literally joked about being seen potentially as a paedophile and asked her on numerous occasions to prove her age. He knew there was a significant chance she was underage, but still proceeded.

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42 minutes ago, Keithy said:

Survivors of abuse, either mentally or physically. Controlling, manipulative behaviour is abuse.

A 40 year old bloke having sexual text messages with a 16 to girl is a famous man using his fame to coerce a young girl. 

It's disgraceful in my opinion that people are even suggesting that 'the girl might have lied' is even an excuse. Aside form the fact at even 16 she was underage in most states, it's classic deflection behaviour. Whether she was 15,16, 17 or 18 is irrelevant. He was 40 and abusing his position of fame. End of.

People wonder why girls don't come forward more often. Some of the posts on this thread are exactly why.

'Scraping the barrel', finding plausible excuses for his behaviour, creating hypothetical. If a girl comes forward,  the reaction of quite a large percentage of the public is still to cast doubt on her. The facts aren't clear, making it out to sound worse, etc, etc.

Did someone suggest any of the girls were lying at any stage? I missed that if so and wouldn't suggest such a thing.

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7 minutes ago, stylishkids said:

Sorry you’ll have to divert me to the point where I was sticking up for his controlling, manipulative behaviour. 

I've not suggested you have. I was making the point about other things that are not against the law as your argument seemed to be that the stuff with the girl was wrong but not illegal, so by extension everything else he's been accused of is also wrong but not illegal. Unless I've misread it, bringing the issue down to a point of legality seems, to me, an exercise in excusing his behaviour.

It's probably why he got away with it for so long... "Ryan mate, that's not right, you shouldn't be doing that"...."it's ok mate, it's not illegal, just wrong".

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He's an arsehole. It's been repeated throughout by everyone including his supposed supporters. 

I don't see anything concrete to confirm he's any more than that within the article which seems to be intentionally misleading.

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54 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

He's an arsehole. It's been repeated throughout by everyone including his supposed supporters. 

I don't see anything concrete to confirm he's any more than that within the article which seems to be intentionally misleading.

Well the FBI are investigating him and the underage girls 

 

 

This is true

 

 

Edited by zahidf

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It's great that he's being investigated and if there are found to be charges necessary then he should face them.

I don't think there's anyone on here that would defend any sex crimes against a minor in any way. There are those who would withhold judgement given the severity of the allegations and the paucity of the evidence in the article relating to that allegation. 

If charges are pressed as a result of investigations and he is found guilty then I would welcome that because I welcome due process. There seem to be others on this forum who view this through the lens of gender and align their convictions accordingly or who are happy to arrive at very serious conclusions on a man based on some pretty sketchy reporting which makes me sad. If he is found to be guilty no doubt they will be the first to jump on those who withheld judgement. Which is madness.

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15 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Well the FBI are investigating him and the underage girls 

 

 

 

 

Good. I look forward to the massive conclusion of how much a arsehole Ryan Adams is come the end of the inquiry 

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1 minute ago, gherkin8r said:

There seem to be others on this forum who view this through the lens of gender and align their convictions accordingly or who are happy to arrive at very serious conclusions on a man based on some pretty sketchy reporting which makes me sad. If he is found to be guilty no doubt they will be the first to jump on those who withheld judgement. Which is madness.

This isn't about what makes you sad. The underage girl was / is probably pretty sad about it too but hey... 

Not like NYT reviewed over 3000 texts between Ryan Adams and a minor. Not like women close to Ryan Adams have come forward. 

If people are happy to make excuses until the point where they can no longer do so, that's their choice. I won't. And others won't either. Those days are over.

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Just now, jyoung said:

This isn't about what makes you sad. The underage girl was / is probably pretty sad about it too but hey... 

Not like NYT reviewed over 3000 texts between Ryan Adams and a minor. Not like women close to Ryan Adams have come forward. 

If people are happy to make excuses until the point where they can no longer do so, that's their choice. I won't. And others won't either. Those days are over.

NYT reviewed 3000 texts and couldn't find one where she told him what age she really was or where he acknowledged that she was underage.

She may be unhappy about lying about her age but not unhappy enough to have pressed charges rather than go to the press which it seems was the case here and which would lessen any case she would have had in court.

Make excuses? Do you really think that's what is happening here? Really? People are making excuses for the sexual exploitation of a minor? 

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8 hours ago, stylishkids said:

Sorry you’ll have to divert me to the point where I was sticking up for his controlling, manipulative behaviour. 

it's odd, isn't it? All these people steaming in with high degrees of self-righteousness, fattened up with huge lies because not everyone is screaming 'kill, kill, kill'. ;)

Seems like it's not just Adams with manipulation problems. :P 

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Taking the supposed underage thing out of the equation, I do worry about the offshoots from #metoo (which of course has to be a force for good in genuine instances) and also make a comment on societys different attitudes to the same actions. I will also point out that Adams is a troubled individual with repeated bouts of varied substance addiction, so let's not be so sharp to stick the knife in, especially if the allegations the FBI are looking into are proven unfounded. 

The "controlling" and "manipulative" behaviour of a man seems to now make him some sort of devil where people would unfairly label a woman doing the same as "mental" or "hysterical". Both are very wrong and are generally the actions of a deeply insecure individual who would require help in an ideal world, not brickbats. Of course though, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. Again...not defending this type of behaviour, just adding some context, but the life of a rock star with the influence and sycophants that come with is very different to that of most of our lives. It's not a licence to behave like a dick, but a lot of the checks and balances that would I reckon have pulled back a majority (?) of us from similar actions do not exist, so while we have to question and oppose behaviour like this, let's not demonise, especially when the NYT has been specifically digging for dirt and reporting it in the most one-sided way you can imagine. 

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11 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Paul Draper's next

 

What's even worse about that is that he tagged in the anchoress who we works worked with a few years ago...

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9 minutes ago, Superscally said:

Taking the supposed underage thing out of the equation, I do worry about the offshoots from #metoo (which of course has to be a force for good in genuine instances) and also make a comment on societys different attitudes to the same actions. I will also point out that Adams is a troubled individual with repeated bouts of varied substance addiction, so let's not be so sharp to stick the knife in, especially if the allegations the FBI are looking into are proven unfounded. 

The "controlling" and "manipulative" behaviour of a man seems to now make him some sort of devil where people would unfairly label a woman doing the same as "mental" or "hysterical". Both are very wrong and are generally the actions of a deeply insecure individual who would require help in an ideal world, not brickbats. Of course though, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. Again...not defending this type of behaviour, just adding some context, but the life of a rock star with the influence and sycophants that come with is very different to that of most of our lives. It's not a licence to behave like a dick, but a lot of the checks and balances that would I reckon have pulled back a majority (?) of us from similar actions do not exist, so while we have to question and oppose behaviour like this, let's not demonise, especially when the NYT has been specifically digging for dirt and reporting it in the most one-sided way you can imagine. 

I don't really see this as an offshoot of metoo. Metoo wasn't just about publishing people who committed blatantly illegal acts.

It's also about holding powerful men to account when they abuse their power and manipulate others. Especially serial 'predators'. From the multiple women on the article, its sounds very much like Adams is a serial predator.

I'm not massively comfortable with the 'he needs help and sympathy' narrative. His reaction isn't a penitent one, he seems to have known what he was doing was unacceptable, and I think loads of guys will try rehab as an excuse (as spacey and Weinstein have)

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2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I don't really see this as an offshoot of metoo. Metoo wasn't just about publishing people who committed blatantly illegal acts.

It's also about holding powerful men to account when they abuse their power and manipulate others. Especially serial 'predators'. From the multiple women on the article, its sounds very much like Adams is a serial predator.

I'm not massively comfortable with the 'he needs help and sympathy' narrative. His reaction isn't a penitent one, he seems to have known what he was doing was unacceptable, and I think loads of guys will try rehab as an excuse (as spacey and Weinstein have)

I don't really disagree, but if someone is able to do rehab and come out the other side a better person then surely that should have the chance of recognition?

The way things stand right now the damnation is forever and there's no chance of rehabilitation.

Surely the point is to move to a better society, and not throw flawed humans - which is all of us in some way or another - off a cliff?

There's clearly a big wrong in stuff like this, and yet there's far worse that goes on in the world without getting anything like the same sorts of focus, responses or the same forever-damnation. We need better perspectives as well as outing wrongs.

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9 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I don't really see this as an offshoot of metoo. Metoo wasn't just about publishing people who committed blatantly illegal acts.

It's also about holding powerful men to account when they abuse their power and manipulate others. Especially serial 'predators'. From the multiple women on the article, its sounds very much like Adams is a serial predator.

I'm not massively comfortable with the 'he needs help and sympathy' narrative. His reaction isn't a penitent one, he seems to have known what he was doing was unacceptable, and I think loads of guys will try rehab as an excuse (as spacey and Weinstein have)

Apologies about the first bit, maybe I didn't make it clear enough. I'm wondering where it will end, was more my premise, I did defend it as an initiative in most cases, but it's not only some men who are a little perturbed about the movement.

Abuse needs to be proved here. Power is an attractive attribute for some and there is no harm using it in the same way as good looks or charm as long as it doesn't overstep the mark. You can manipulate and control with those two as well. Phoebe had a consensual relationship with him, no matter how dysfunctional it seems to the majority and there is no evidence that he stymied her career, despite her clear upset with some issues, actually publishing her songs on Pax-am and giving support slots. In the absence of any proof, I don't think the words of a disgruntled ex-spouse is the most damning of evidence either, especially as I bet we probably have some choice words about our ex-partners who may think we're dicks (I get on with all but one of mine, by the way! 😄). This however, isn't the crux of my issue.

I am no way accepting you putting him in the same category as Spacey and Weinstein, whose actions bordered on AND crossed into rape, whereas there is nothing of the sort here alleged or proven (caveat: yet) and in the fact that Adams has known and documented mental health issues, unlike those two who cried out for help after they'd been busted.

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35 minutes ago, Superscally said:

Taking the supposed underage thing out of the equation

I'm not prepared to do that. 

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13 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I don't really disagree, but if someone is able to do rehab and come out the other side a better person then surely that should have the chance of recognition?

The way things stand right now the damnation is forever and there's no chance of rehabilitation.

Surely the point is to move to a better society, and not throw flawed humans - which is all of us in some way or another - off a cliff?

There's clearly a big wrong in stuff like this, and yet there's far worse that goes on in the world without getting anything like the same sorts of focus, responses or the same forever-damnation. We need better perspectives as well as outing wrongs.

Well yes, there are worse things in the world. But this is a specific ryan Adams thread!

Adams hasn't even admitted he did anything wrong or that he wants rehabilitation.

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