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10 minutes ago, Justiceforcedave said:

Looks like it's time to switch the old profile pic 😲

Was hoping you'd buy my t-shirts 

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3 hours ago, Wooderson said:

Agreed. Whilst the underage stuff is vile, the other material in the article just paints a picture of a very messed up horrible bloke. I'm sure some of the people I call friends have done worse. You just don't know what people are doing in their private lives...

And with that comes the dilemma regarding the full reveal of people's reprehensible private behaviour to the public. In my experience very dull, predictable people make dull and uninteresting art. The inverse of the Forrest Gump maxim - stupid does as stupid is. Maybe the reason Ryan Adams music is so good (to my ears) is that he is so complex and flawed a character. This doesnt excuse Ryan Adams behaviour and most certainly not seek to use them as a standard to live by. I have my own moral compass and his actions don't influence me. This moral compass similarly wouldnt prevent me from watching a Miramax film. Art has to exist for its own merits distinct from its creator. Ryan Adams seems like a horrible c**t - this is now clear - but I always knew he was a dog. Just like I love the Beatles despite knowing JWL was a cheating, controlling, manipulative wife beater who abandoned his son.

The act of having it confirmed that someone is a wrongun doesnt impact on my appreciation of their art. I can keep person and art separate and differ widely from those that will inevitably change listening habits etc.

 

I would be hasty at this point to draw too much from this. A lot of what is said here paints a picture of a messed up individual who was very probably abusing a position of power to some extent to get laid and has issues with control and relationships (and his mental health in general). Not to say the behaviour isn't dysfunctional as it clearly is. 

The stuff with the underage girls is clearly the most disturbing but the article does say the girl lied about her age "at times" under repeated questioning. That language suggests that at other times she told the truth but this isn't implicit in how the story is recounted. He may have used the r Kelly analogy in a hypothetical context which would be normal for someone who had concerns about a girl lying about her age (which the article explicitly states that she did). 

It may turn out that there was serious foul play here but I'd be reluctant to jump on him based on this article alone. The tone seems a lot darker than most of the actual facts within the article.

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3 hours ago, Homer said:

I think there is a general problem when ‘nerdy’ guys get in a position of power over women. They don’t really know how to utilise it and the whole things end up like some kind of ‘revenge mission’. That’s my amateur psychology anyway.

Totally agree mate. Always the same kind of white indie boy with too many feelings. Never a shock is it? You always think yeah I can totally see him being a weird c**t.

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3 hours ago, Homer said:

I think there is a general problem when ‘nerdy’ guys get in a position of power over women. They don’t really know how to utilise it and the whole things end up like some kind of ‘revenge mission’. That’s my amateur psychology anyway.

I’m pleased you added the proviso. 

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1 hour ago, gherkin8r said:

I would be hasty at this point to draw too much from this. A lot of what is said here paints a picture of a messed up individual who was very probably abusing a position of power to some extent to get laid and has issues with control and relationships (and his mental health in general). Not to say the behaviour isn't dysfunctional as it clearly is. 

The stuff with the underage girls is clearly the most disturbing but the article does say the girl lied about her age "at times" under repeated questioning. That language suggests that at other times she told the truth but this isn't implicit in how the story is recounted. He may have used the r Kelly analogy in a hypothetical context which would be normal for someone who had concerns about a girl lying about her age (which the article explicitly states that she did). 

It may turn out that there was serious foul play here but I'd be reluctant to jump on him based on this article alone. The tone seems a lot darker than most of the actual facts within the article.

This. 

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56 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

I would be hasty at this point to draw too much from this. A lot of what is said here paints a picture of a messed up individual who was very probably abusing a position of power to some extent to get laid and has issues with control and relationships (and his mental health in general). Not to say the behaviour isn't dysfunctional as it clearly is. 

The stuff with the underage girls is clearly the most disturbing but the article does say the girl lied about her age "at times" under repeated questioning. That language suggests that at other times she told the truth but this isn't implicit in how the story is recounted. He may have used the r Kelly analogy in a hypothetical context which would be normal for someone who had concerns about a girl lying about her age (which the article explicitly states that she did). 

It may turn out that there was serious foul play here but I'd be reluctant to jump on him based on this article alone. The tone seems a lot darker than most of the actual facts within the article.

 

I'd agree with that.

There's 3217 messages between the pair of them. In between all of them the NY times can't get 1 message where Ryan Adams states that he knows she's underage.  'She lied about her age at times'. What did she say the other times? I'd hazard a guess that she completely bypassed the question and changed the subject. There's a whole lot of material to go through and they can't prove that he purposefully went for an underage girl so they make vague comments which imply he did.

In one of them he stated 'I would get in trouble if someone knew we talked like this' with the NY times implying that it was due to her age. But could it be, he'd get in trouble because he was still married at the time of the messages and he's sending messages out to another girl and that's wrong? Or if they'd broken up, he was seeing some other woman and sending flirtatious out to another girl? Could that not be the thing that would get him in trouble? 

The worrying thing is the R Kelly quote. However that could easily be a joke. Girl won't show him her passport so he comes out with a bad joke. And we don't know what messages came before or after that for him to come out with that. He still should have stayed well clear though. A complete and utter idiot for all these messages between the pair. 

Before the article I thought Ryan was a bit of a dick with mental health issues. After it I think he's a bigger dick with bigger mental health issues. Can't say I'll be listening to the upcoming albums or delving into the back catalogue again in a hurry. 

 

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13 hours ago, zahidf said:

Yup. Always came across as a massive dick, but I didn't realise exactly how much of a scumbag he is  

Yeah, it’s weird, never knew anything about him, liked some of his music, went to see him on the park stage and enjoyed it but disliked him/thought he was a bit of a dick (even though he didn’t really do anything dick-ish that I can remember!).

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1 minute ago, stylishkids said:

There's 3217 messages between the pair of them. In between all of them the NY times can't get 1 message where Ryan Adams states that he knows she's underage.  'She lied about her age at times'. What did she say the other times? I'd hazard a guess that she completely bypassed the question and changed the subject. There's a whole lot of material to go through and they can't prove that he purposefully went for an underage girl so they make vague comments which imply he did.

Exactly. If she had at any stage admitted that she was underage the article would say that. The use of the language to suggest she had revealed her age without actually saying it rings alarm bells for me about the intentions of the article as a whole.

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2 hours ago, Garrett_Salas said:

I'm sure we could all look back in our own lives and be embarrassed/ashamed/regretful of things we've done to people especially when relationships are involved.

But, having read the article, this does not seem like he was just being an asshole to women. He appears to have systematically pursued a strategy of using females he found attractive and then, once they were no use to him any more at best ignored them and at worst actively hindered their career. That's not okay.

With regards to the underage girl, you'd hope (but feel imagine it unlikely) that it would be dealt with by the legal system. For everything else, the legal system doesn't cover so to stop this type of behaviour it needs social condemnation and people to stand up and say it's wrong.

i mean, that may well be the case, but he has a history of using people in general, and then moving on when he has no more use for them. it's not limited to women. anyone who has followed his non-music life over the years would probably be aware of his highly narcissistic tendencies and being a control freak, so most of this isn't really that surprising.

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3 minutes ago, stylishkids said:

The worrying thing is the R Kelly quote. However that could easily be a joke. Girl won't show him her passport so he comes out with a bad joke. And we don't know what messages came before or after that for him to come out with that. He still should have stayed well clear though. A complete and utter idiot for all these messages between the pair. 

This was my thinking too. I don't want to come across as defending him but I think it's important to withhold judgement until the facts become clear rather than going with the feeling of a piece intended to get a reaction and probably to mislead.

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I thought they were scraping the barrell towards the end saying he told his wife she wasn't a musician because she didn't play an instrument. Come on like. If that's the kind of thing they are referencing as controlling etc it's a bit meh.

If you dig up the worst things people had said to their partners and list them in an article they don't look great.

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Don't know why it's so hard for some people. Very depressing. Always an if or a but.

 

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3 minutes ago, jyoung said:

Don't know why it's so hard for some people. Very depressing. Always an if or a but.

 

What's hard? 

How is your linked tweet even relevant?

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2 minutes ago, jyoung said:

Don't know why it's so hard for some people. Very depressing. Always an if or a but.

 

That’s a useless tweet, look at the evidence and make a decision for yourself. To believe or not believe someone because they are a woman OR because they claim to be a victim is ridiculous.  

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Believe women.... I mean really? Believe someone based on their gender? Isn't that the whole problem here? Survivors of what? Has Ryan Adams killed others?

I'm lost.

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Big up all the lads defending the man in his 40s attempting to fuck a 15 year old cos she said she was 18, you keep fighting the good fight.

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9 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

Believe women.... I mean really? Believe someone based on their gender? Isn't that the whole problem here? Survivors of what? Has Ryan Adams killed others?

I'm lost.

Survivors of abuse, either mentally or physically. Controlling, manipulative behaviour is abuse.

A 40 year old bloke having sexual text messages with a 16 to girl is a famous man using his fame to coerce a young girl. 

It's disgraceful in my opinion that people are even suggesting that 'the girl might have lied' is even an excuse. Aside form the fact at even 16 she was underage in most states, it's classic deflection behaviour. Whether she was 15,16, 17 or 18 is irrelevant. He was 40 and abusing his position of fame. End of.

People wonder why girls don't come forward more often. Some of the posts on this thread are exactly why.

'Scraping the barrel', finding plausible excuses for his behaviour, creating hypothetical. If a girl comes forward,  the reaction of quite a large percentage of the public is still to cast doubt on her. The facts aren't clear, making it out to sound worse, etc, etc.

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16 minutes ago, ghostdancer1 said:

i mean, that may well be the case, but he has a history of using people in general, and then moving on when he has no more use for them. it's not limited to women. anyone who has followed his non-music life over the years would probably be aware of his highly narcissistic tendencies and being a control freak, so most of this isn't really that surprising.

I'm not sure why it being a surprise or not makes any difference to the point I made?

I don't follow him closely, and yes he may be extremely toxic towards everybody, but right now we're specifically talking about him targeting these (in most cases young) women. It's important firstly as it involves sex and, like it or not, it changes things and adds an extra layer of pain and damage to people.

Its also important as it fits into the wider context of metoo, and specifically that the gatekeepers and power balance is titled so heavily towards men in music. This is a serious problem and when you conflate it with just someone doing these things as he's a 'bad guy's you damage the ability of these stories to change that. As someone said on twitter - every young woman in the music industry will have a story of similar happened to them, while most male performers are oblivious to it. 

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One point in that NY article is that two of those women he abused mentally (and mental abuse is still abuse) said that they were put of making music from their experience of him as emblematic of the music industry. How many other women have been prevented from making music because of that?

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3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

There was nothing about "no sexual crimes occurred" in the tweet initially posted here; I've been commenting from (just) that.

And I'm not able to find McCormick saying no crimes were committed.

edit: managed to get google to present me that snippet. 

Well, the man's a moron then.

But just-perhaps he was meaning in a physical-and-the -the-same-room sexual crimes way, rather than online-remote crimes?

He has form 

 

 

Edited by zahidf

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9 minutes ago, Bradders said:

Big up all the lads defending the man in his 40s attempting to fuck a 15 year old cos she said she was 18, you keep fighting the good fight.

Defending the man by seeing he's a complete dick who I won't be listening to his music anytime soon :suicide:

My gripe has been with the NY times by incinuating he purposefully went after an underage girl. A 40 year old shouldn't be hooking up with an 18 year old but it's not against the law to. Mick Jagger shouldn't be sleeping around with someone who's 43 years younger than him but it's not against the law.

He's clearly used his fame to sleep with the women in the article. Hell he's probably tried it on with others who've spurned his chances. I'd hazard a guess Laura Marlings one of them after her tweet too. He's a dick. I just don't like how the articles been written. 

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