Ryan Adams

[ghostdancer1]

36 minutes ago, tevaburger said:

because he's worked with so many artists, including many male musicians, it will be interesting to see what they say. One very respected in that field that i checked immediately was Jason Isbell, who said on twitter he didn't know about this behaviour but said he believed it. 

he's just announced a tour with Father John Misty, who I wouldn't be surprised has a few skeletons in his closest, as he sings about what a shitty person he is, although it's hard to know where the person ends and the character starts with him.

[priest17]

Christ, what a c**t. I'm not really into his music so don't know a lot about him but from the article stating he has a rep for helping young female musicians to the end of the Ava section saying she never played another gig and was put off the idea of being a musician is heartbreaking.

[Smeble]

Wow society really has come a long way from high profile celebrities seen to be ‘getting off’in courts to  not even bothering with legal process and just going straight to conviction by media. 

[Wooderson]

The stuff (criminal, surely?) with the underage girl is sickening if true and (for me at least) is the only genuine "news" here. He's a messed up guy, non linear upbringing, lot of substance abuse, lot of physical and mental health issues going back decades. His behaviour of treating women like shit is par for the course for a big % of men in power in the ents industry. Hell lets face it its not limited to the ents industry.

This isnt excusing  conduct of Ryan Adams who if he's exposing himself to kids online now is even more mixed up than I thought he was.

Isbell should go easy on the sanctimony also. A notorious jerk in his boozing years prior to making some drastic life changes and getting VERY lucky indeed meeting his wife. Adams could do with his support now - some straight talk rather than being abandoned completely.

Ive tickets to both shows in Dublin next month and can't see how they go ahead.

[tevaburger]

4 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

The stuff (criminal, surely?) with the underage girl is sickening if true and (for me at least) is the only genuine "news" here. He's a messed up guy, non linear upbringing, lot of substance abuse, lot of physical and mental health issues going back decades. His behaviour of treating women like shit is par for the course for a big % of men in power in the ents industry. Hell lets face it its not limited to the ents industry.

This isnt excusing  conduct of Ryan Adams who if he's exposing himself to kids online now is even more mixed up than I thought he was.

Isbell should go easy on the sanctimony also. A notorious jerk in his boozing years prior to making some drastic life changes and getting VERY lucky indeed meeting his wife. Adams could do with his support now - some straight talk rather than being abandoned completely.

Ive tickets to both shows in Dublin next month and can't see how they go ahead.

agreed in that the minor stuff is the real sickening piece in this, far and above the other maltreatment of women, which is horrible, but unfortunately quite prevalent. Isbell does seem like a genuinely reformed guy. I just can't see Ryan Adams 5-10 yrs from now talking honestly about his past like Isbell does now though... my guess is it's on a different level 

 

 

[The Nal]

I think the Isbell stuff is more "I believe her" than anything else? 

Agree though cant see how a tour will go ahead in 6 weeks time.

[RyanSmith9311]

probably listened to him more than anyone else over the last 2-3 years. Pretty gutted. New stuff was sounding really good aswell. Shame

[tevaburger]

we'll never see him on the farm again, but if so...you would have to book a Portishead set up in a packed Acoustic tent this year and have Ryan Adams billed before, and give him an incorrect (late) stage time, and see the reaction....

... and with the name 'Mandy' featuring in the NYT story, it made me think of some bass player I saw on the Friday of 2013 in the Acoustic tent, a few hours before the famous Portishead set that night 

[zahidf]

Telegraph with the worse take on it 

 

[jyoung]

15 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I think we can all live with that. What we can't live with though, is white men in position of power being complicit in abuse. Fuck off.

[Homer]

2 hours ago, ghostdancer1 said:

he's just announced a tour with Father John Misty, who I wouldn't be surprised has a few skeletons in his closest, as he sings about what a shitty person he is, although it's hard to know where the person ends and the character starts with him.

He is definitely a bit of a bellend - he managed to fall out with Mark Radcliffe for god's sake:
 

 

[eFestivals]

44 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Telegraph with the worse take on it 

 

It's a bit extreme to suggest that a personal opinion of how McCormick found Adams to be when he met him is giving the OK to his behaviour. I mean, just about everyone finds Mogg overly polite, but that doesn't stop plenty thinking he's a c**t of the highest order.

And the headline is about nailing it. Just as no one was surprised there was a casting couch - with Weinstein, and then shown to be widespread with all the shaming since - it's hardly a surprise that there's 'rock stars' going around saying "stick with me baby I'll make you famous. Can we shag now?"

I doubt the list of shamed has stopped yet. The number of men with 'regrettable' incidents in their past will be huge, and is likely to be a greater proportion where there's benefits that can be dangled.

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It's a bit extreme to suggest that a personal opinion of how McCormick found Adams to be when he met him is giving the OK to his behaviour. I mean, just about everyone finds Mogg overly polite, but that doesn't stop plenty thinking he's a c**t of the highest order.

And the headline is about nailing it. Just as no one was surprised there was a casting couch - with Weinstein, and then shown to be widespread with all the shaming since - it's hardly a surprise that there's 'rock stars' going around saying "stick with me baby I'll make you famous. Can we shag now?"

I doubt the list of shamed has stopped yet. The number of men with 'regrettable' incidents in their past will be huge, and is likely to be a greater proportion where there's benefits that can be dangled.

Probably more about timing: saying how he seemed ok after all the paedo stuff came out isn't particularly appropriate!

Oh, the headline and article seemed more about how it's a bad thing if the rock stars careers are over if they are doing what Adams was doing. Men being accountable now ain't a bad thing.

Edited February 14, 2019 by zahidf

[Homer]

I think there is a general problem when ‘nerdy’ guys get in a position of power over women. They don’t really know how to utilise it and the whole things end up like some kind of ‘revenge mission’. That’s my amateur psychology anyway.

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Probably more about timing: saying how he seemed ok after all the paedo stuff came out isn't particularly appropriate!

I can only comment on what you've presented.

Quote

Oh, the headline and article seemed more about how it's a bad thing if the rock stars careers are over if they are doing what Adams was doing. Men being accountable now ain't a bad thing.

Men being accountable isn't a bad thing.

But there's still context to the past which isn't always being considered with many of today's condemnations. For instance, people being shamed for blackface in the early eighties (which was a recent one); it was dying out by then, but had recently been a very common and mainstream thing, and as such it was a very different thing to if someone was doing it today.

If rock history was trawled thru a lot of us would be dumping a major part of our music collections.

Edited February 14, 2019 by eFestivals

[Homer]

2 hours ago, shuttlep said:

he's ok, like some of his stuff

 

 

his duet with sporty spice was his low point

Of the two, it looks like Ryan has actually managed to have the more regrettable summer of 69.

[Wooderson]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

It's a bit extreme to suggest that a personal opinion of how McCormick found Adams to be when he met him is giving the OK to his behaviour. I mean, just about everyone finds Mogg overly polite, but that doesn't stop plenty thinking he's a c**t of the highest order.

And the headline is about nailing it. Just as no one was surprised there was a casting couch - with Weinstein, and then shown to be widespread with all the shaming since - it's hardly a surprise that there's 'rock stars' going around saying "stick with me baby I'll make you famous. Can we shag now?"

I doubt the list of shamed has stopped yet. The number of men with 'regrettable' incidents in their past will be huge, and is likely to be a greater proportion where there's benefits that can be dangled.

Agreed. Whilst the underage stuff is vile, the other material in the article just paints a picture of a very messed up horrible bloke. I'm sure some of the people I call friends have done worse. You just don't know what people are doing in their private lives...

And with that comes the dilemma regarding the full reveal of people's reprehensible private behaviour to the public. In my experience very dull, predictable people make dull and uninteresting art. The inverse of the Forrest Gump maxim - stupid does as stupid is. Maybe the reason Ryan Adams music is so good (to my ears) is that he is so complex and flawed a character. This doesnt excuse Ryan Adams behaviour and most certainly not seek to use them as a standard to live by. I have my own moral compass and his actions don't influence me. This moral compass similarly wouldnt prevent me from watching a Miramax film. Art has to exist for its own merits distinct from its creator. Ryan Adams seems like a horrible c**t - this is now clear - but I always knew he was a dog. Just like I love the Beatles despite knowing JWL was a cheating, controlling, manipulative wife beater who abandoned his son.

The act of having it confirmed that someone is a wrongun doesnt impact on my appreciation of their art. I can keep person and art separate and differ widely from those that will inevitably change listening habits etc.

 

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I can only comment on what you've presented.

Men being accountable isn't a bad thing.

But there's still context to the past which isn't being considered with many of today's condemnations. For instance, people being shamed for blackface in the early eighties (which was a recent one); it was dying out by then, but had recently been a very common and mainstream thing, and as such it was a very different thing to if someone was doing it today.

I don't think this applies I'm this case to Adams though. His stuff is relatively recent.

[StLewi]

44 minutes ago, jyoung said:

I think we can all live with that. What we can't live with though, is white men in position of power being complicit in abuse. Fuck off.

What's the colour of his skin got to do with anything?

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

I don't think this applies I'm this case to Adams though. His stuff is relatively recent.

yup. But even then plenty of it is from before the recent changes in attitudes.

That's not trying to excuse anything, it's merely saying that those recent changes of attitudes will also be changing the attitudes of some of the previously-scumbags, too.

We know plenty in the past has been wrong, and we can't change it. What happens going forwards is most important.

[Bradders]

18 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Agreed. Whilst the underage stuff is vile, the other material in the article just paints a picture of a very messed up horrible bloke. I'm sure some of the people I call friends have done worse. You just don't know what people are doing in their private lives...

And with that comes the dilemma regarding the full reveal of people's reprehensible private behaviour to the public. In my experience very dull, predictable people make dull and uninteresting art. The inverse of the Forrest Gump maxim - stupid does as stupid is. Maybe the reason Ryan Adams music is so good (to my ears) is that he is so complex and flawed a character. This doesnt excuse Ryan Adams behaviour and most certainly not seek to use them as a standard to live by. I have my own moral compass and his actions don't influence me. This moral compass similarly wouldnt prevent me from watching a Miramax film. Art has to exist for its own merits distinct from its creator. Ryan Adams seems like a horrible c**t - this is now clear - but I always knew he was a dog. Just like I love the Beatles despite knowing JWL was a cheating, controlling, manipulative wife beater who abandoned his son.

The act of having it confirmed that someone is a wrongun doesnt impact on my appreciation of their art. I can keep person and art separate and differ widely from those that will inevitably change listening habits etc.

 

The whole thing is about abuse of power. You can’t separate the one thing out as being vile and the rest just because he’s complicated.

[jyoung]

17 minutes ago, StLewi said:

What's the colour of his skin got to do with anything?

Because I imagine when he was finding his feet in his industry, he probably didn't have men in power dangle opportunities infront of him and then take them away and replace them with emotional abuse / gaslighting when he rejected their sexual advances. I'd imagine one of the reasons he didn't experience that, is because he is a white male.

Could of course be completely wrong and have the wrong idea. Happy for someone to enlighten me here.

[Wooderson]

5 minutes ago, Bradders said:

The whole thing is about abuse of power. You can’t separate the one thing out as being vile and the rest just because he’s complicated.

I won’t buy his new record but I dunno about binning records of his I’ve lived with and loved for years. My appreciation of them was not colored by the suggestion he exposed himself to a minor on the Internet. It is complicated to me as a fan. Soz but it’s not straightforward.

[Bradders]

1 minute ago, Wooderson said:

I won’t buy his new record but I dunno about binning records of his I’ve lived with and loved for years. My appreciation of them was not colored by the suggestion he exposed himself to a minor on the Internet. It is complicated to me as a fan. Soz but it’s not straightforward.

If you’re capable of separating it then that’s fine, I don’t think we should be forcing people to stop liking art they previously liked. I was just saying it’s no coincidence that guys who abuse their power and treat women over 18 badly also prey on underage girls. He’s not the only one who will abuse their power whether it’s illegal or not.

[eFestivals]

16 minutes ago, jyoung said:

Because I imagine when he was finding his feet in his industry, he probably didn't have men in power dangle opportunities infront of him and then take them away and replace them with emotional abuse / gaslighting when he rejected their sexual advances. I'd imagine one of the reasons he didn't experience that, is because he is a white male.

Could of course be completely wrong and have the wrong idea. Happy for someone to enlighten me here.

you could only be right if men in power who abuse that power then abuse that power over a black man and not a white man.

Might happen I guess, tho I suspect an abuser of power is most likely to abuse that power where they're able or want to abuse that power - which is most likely to be chosen by gender than race, i'd have thought (particularly with abuse of power for sex).

also see: Bill Cosby; Kevin Spacey.

Edited February 14, 2019 by eFestivals