How Many Janet Jackson Songs Could You Name?

[rostro]

1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Fair play on the first points, but loads of artists sold millions of records in another country in another century.  The Bay City Rollers sold over a 100 million records, but I don't expect many people in the 90s would have been able to name more than a couple of their songs.  Some acts are just massive for a while, but don't have a huge lasting impact.

that is a very fair point. the last part of that was probably written in frustration, tbh.  i wasn't suggesting that the OP here was being sexist at all. albeit- i would say that i can name only 1 Strokes record (for example )but that is just a reflection on me and my taste. 

[The Martini Police]

17 minutes ago, rostro said:

on the three threads discussing Janet Jackson - there's been a comment  about vagisil, one about getting her nips out and a general theme here that no-one would know her music (albeit that she's sold 100 million records). that is sexism. i'm generally a lurker here and have been for a fairly long time -  this is one of the more shameful reactions to anyone ever being rumoured. 

You mentioned 3 separate things there. Vagasil - yes. Nips out - more a joke about an actual famous incident if we're being honest but I have no interest in contesting that one so you can have it. Not knowing her music - absolutely not. Under that logic, is any criticism (if you do indeed take the poll as criticism) of any woman sexist? Connecting them all and putting them under the sexist banner just drags down the quality of any debate (and this is happening at every level of public discourse at the moment). Someone should be able to ask if an artist has well-known songs (even if they're wrong) without being accused of sexism and connected to actual sexism. 

[Gucci Piggy]

1 hour ago, The Placid Casual said:

Eh? I didn't downvote your post...

 

@ThePlacidCasual isn't me. I'm @The Placid Casual.

Are you now making parodies of your own account to put people off the scent that it's you making dentalplan parodies?

 

[rostro]

1 minute ago, The Martini Police said:

You mentioned 3 separate things there. Vagasil - yes. Nips out - more a joke about an actual famous incident if we're being honest but I have no interest in contesting that one so you can have it. Not knowing her music - absolutely not. Under that logic, is any criticism (if you do indeed take the poll as criticism) of any woman sexist? Connecting them all and putting them under the sexist banner just drags down the quality of any debate (and this is happening at every level of public discourse at the moment). Someone should be able to ask if an artist has well-known songs (even if they're wrong) without being accused of sexism and connected to actual sexism. 

as i said, i don't think that this is thread is particularly sexist. but the debate as a whole on  the forum about this has (imo) been sexist. i think we can all be better and that we should call these things out where we see them. I'm sure that 'public discourse' can handle a bit of 'dragging down' but, if it can't, then maybe it's not a discourse worth having. 

 

[Gucci Piggy]

42 minutes ago, rostro said:

on the three threads discussing Janet Jackson - there's been a comment  about vagisil, one about getting her nips out and a general theme here that no-one would know her music (albeit that she's sold 100 million records). that is sexism. i'm generally a lurker here and have been for a fairly long time -  this is one of the more shameful reactions to anyone ever being rumoured. 

Lol how do those first two (sexist) things mean the third one is sexist? You're basically saying that because some things levelled at her are sexist then absolutely everything levelled at her is sexist.

That's like saying, on the topic of Lady Gaga, "someone said they'd only watch her for a perv, someone said they'd love to have a go on Lady Gaga, and someone asked if she's still relevant enough to headline, that's sexism". No, the first two points are sexist, the final one isn't.

[Gucci Piggy]

Oh Martini Police already said all that.

[The Placid Casual]

4 minutes ago, Gucci Piggy said:

Are you now making parodies of your own account to put people off the scent that it's you making dentalplan parodies?

Everyone knows it's you, stop deflecting.

 

...also stay on topic.

[bombfrog]

4 minutes ago, rostro said:

as i said, i don't think that this is thread is particularly sexist. but the debate as a whole on  the forum about this has (imo) been sexist. i think we can all be better and that we should call these things out where we see them. I'm sure that 'public discourse' can handle a bit of 'dragging down' but, if it can't, then maybe it's not a discourse worth having. 

 

Nobody said the same about Beyonce, or Florence, etc. etc. I would ask the same question about The Strokes (I couldn't name anything beyond 'Last Night').

Your argument simply doesn't hold water.

[The Martini Police]

3 minutes ago, rostro said:

as i said, i don't think that this is thread is particularly sexist. but the debate as a whole on  the forum about this has (imo) been sexist. i think we can all be better and that we should call these things out where we see them. I'm sure that 'public discourse' can handle a bit of 'dragging down' but, if it can't, then maybe it's not a discourse worth having. 

 

There may well have been comments about Janet Jackson that have been sexist but that's not all discussion about her. "don't think that this thread is particularly sexist' - no, it's not at all sexist. Other things have been, not this. It's not difficult to separate them. Sure, call out sexism when you see it, but false accusations that we've had today aren't helping and are actually harming the fight against real sexism (just like other forms of discrimination). 

Public discourse not worth having and can handle dragging down? That's just a really, really weird comment, I don't know what to say to that.

 

[The Placid Casual]

2 minutes ago, The Martini Police said:

There may well have been comments about Janet Jackson that have been sexist but that's not all discussion about her. "don't think that this thread is particularly sexist' - no, it's not at all sexist. Other things have been, not this. It's not difficult to separate them. Sure, call out sexism when you see it, but false accusations that we've had today aren't helping and are actually harming the fight against real sexism (just like other forms of discrimination). 

Agreed. I've also found the whole thing a tad offensive. Ironic that.

[TheNoise]

2 hours ago, gigpusher said:

I'm sure you don't feel like you are sexist or racist but the sad truth is we all are a little bit. How could we be anything but when the world is generally presented to us by rich white men who occupy the vast majority of positions of power in every sphere of influence. Let's do our bit to try and change that though. It'd be nice to see it become a little bit less so. If JJ having a headline slot at Glastonbury helps that then I'm up for it. She's sold more than many others who have been up there. I'd be happy to give her a chance. 

 

Are you fucking kidding me ?

How in goddamn hell are blues, Motown, disco, jazz, etc presented by rich white men ?

And if JJ headlines, along with Stormzy, won't that tip the balance too ? What about Asian representation ? I'd be more than happy if Babymetal turned up but I doubt the majority would be. And how many  people can name any of their songs ? Is it racist if you can't ?

So what's more racist ? One black act, one Asian and one white as headliners each year, forcing acts to be chosen by colour, or just choose good music regardless of who performs ?

[Bisque]

One ginger act

[CaledonianGonzo]

39 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

Nobody said the same about Beyonce, or Florence, etc. etc. 

As an aside, sure they did. The fact that Beyonce headlined caused an outbreak of beetroot-faced 'not real music' foaming just a couple of weeks back 

[CaledonianGonzo]

1 hour ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Fair play on the first points, but loads of artists sold millions of records in another country in another century.  The Bay City Rollers sold over a 100 million records, but I don't expect many people in the 90s would have been able to name more than a couple of their songs.  Some acts are just massive for a while, but don't have a huge lasting impact.

This would be a fair point, put she's 30 years into her career at this point and her influence is everywhere - Rihanna, Christine & The Queens and so on.

 

 

[thesecretingredientiscrime]

9 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

As an aside, sure they did. The fact that Beyonce headlined caused an outbreak of beetroot-faced 'not real music' foaming just a couple of weeks back 

And Florence gets a lot of transphobic stuff thrown at her, and always has done, same with Gaga.

[Hugh Jass]

There was a video where she was in Africa that was on MTV* all the fucking time back in the 90’s.

*For you young’uns MTV used to show popular music videos.

[bombfrog]

25 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

As an aside, sure they did. The fact that Beyonce headlined caused an outbreak of beetroot-faced 'not real music' foaming just a couple of weeks back 

Fair enough, but it was nowhere near the scale of the Jay-Z hate. His argument still holds no water.

[bombfrog]

17 minutes ago, thesecretingredientiscrime said:

And Florence gets a lot of transphobic stuff thrown at her, and always has done.

Really? Why?

I don't like her so I would have avoided any threads about her but I don't see why people would feel the need to abuse her (unless it's for her singing)?

[whitehorses]

2 hours ago, rostro said:

on the three threads discussing Janet Jackson - there's been a comment  about vagisil, one about getting her nips out and a general theme here that no-one would know her music (albeit that she's sold 100 million records). that is sexism. i'm generally a lurker here and have been for a fairly long time -  this is one of the more shameful reactions to anyone ever being rumoured. 

Fair enough. Didn’t see vagisil comment, sounds unnecessarily grim whatever context. She’s unfortunately famous for a nipple slip so don’t think that’s necessarily sexism (though it might be). And most of the chat here is about how little people know Arcade Fire’s/Strokes/whoever’s songs so think that’s reaching. Fairly sure the same reaction would happen with some many other big sellers in the 80s/90s folk. But will quietly leave sexism discussion with a reminder to self that should know better than to get involved. 

[slash's hat]

39 minutes ago, caballosblancos said:

Fair enough. Didn’t see vagisil comment, sounds unnecessarily grim whatever context. She’s unfortunately famous for a nipple slip so don’t think that’s necessarily sexism (though it might be). And most of the chat here is about how little people know Arcade Fire’s/Strokes/whoever’s songs so think that’s reaching. Fairly sure the same reaction would happen with some many other big sellers in the 80s/90s folk. But will quietly leave sexism discussion with a reminder to self that should know better than to get involved. 

Mentioning the nipple slip thing is not sexist, someone mentioned it in the context you have about it being an incident that happened and it was fine, however another poster said "Get your nips out" which is a very different context. 

[clarkete]

2 hours ago, The Martini Police said:

There may well have been comments about Janet Jackson that have been sexist but that's not all discussion about her. "don't think that this thread is particularly sexist' - no, it's not at all sexist. Other things have been, not this. It's not difficult to separate them. Sure, call out sexism when you see it, but false accusations that we've had today aren't helping and are actually harming the fight against real sexism (just like other forms of discrimination). 

Public discourse not worth having and can handle dragging down? That's just a really, really weird comment, I don't know what to say to that.

 

You were one of the first people to downvote @RyanS on the first page for simply asking "Do we just do this sort of thing for female artists?" and I would argue that your persistence amongst other individuals in not just letting the discussion go is part of why this has become more of a heated debate.

If you get offended that someone asks the question, then that's your own issue.  Plenty of folk have made observations about other artists that had similar polls which directly answers the question, but there's a section of male posters that can't seem to let it lie.
 

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

Saw her on the Velvet Rope tour. Really enjoyed the show. "Go Deep" is a banger central.

 

 

Just checked. That gig was twenty years ago. Sake.

[gigpusher]

1 hour ago, TheNoise said:

Are you fucking kidding me ?

How in goddamn hell are blues, Motown, disco, jazz, etc presented by rich white men ?

And if JJ headlines, along with Stormzy, won't that tip the balance too ? What about Asian representation ? I'd be more than happy if Babymetal turned up but I doubt the majority would be. And how many  people can name any of their songs ? Is it racist if you can't ?

So what's more racist ? One black act, one Asian and one white as headliners each year, forcing acts to be chosen by colour, or just choose good music regardless of who performs ?

I'm talking about the whole world. How many politicians are black females, how many record company exec's, how many festival owners? How many Professors at universities? How many people in positions of real power and influence. It might be getting better but it's not a problem that is resolved yet. 

How many black artists have traditionally been treated really badly while their music has been re-recorded by white people to huge acclaim. And this thread was about sexism as well as racism and really in almost 50 years of the festival do you not think that there could be more female representation amongst headliners. 

I would 100%, be behind anything that encourages more diversity whether I like a band or not. I want people especially bookers not to be thinking we need one of each colour or each gender but I want them to be thinking does this line up reflect the world around us or just my little part of it. I want the audience to get more diverse as well. I have an Asian friend who loves music but has never been to a gig. I've tried to rectify this and he won't admit it but he's clearly a bit scared about going. He has given an excuse for about 5 artists that I've suggested and I have done my best to pick different diverse acts. That to me is a problem that we should very much be trying to fix. 

 

 

[whitehorses]

@slash's hatok I see. Yes

[TheNoise]

8 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

How many black artists have traditionally been treated really badly while their music has been re-recorded by white people to huge acclaim.

A hell of a lot. Especially in America, with rock and roll.

Should we still be trying to make up for that by choosing artists for their colour ?

8 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

I would 100%, be behind anything that encourages more diversity whether I like a band or not. I want people especially bookers not to be thinking we need one of each colour or each gender but I want them to be thinking does this line up reflect the world around us or just my little part of it. I want the audience to get more diverse as well.

Why ? So all festivals can be the same ? Should A7X play at creamfields, or Jools Holland at download ? 

16 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

I have an Asian friend who loves music but has never been to a gig. I've tried to rectify this and he won't admit it but he's clearly a bit scared about going. He has given an excuse for about 5 artists that I've suggested and I have done my best to pick different diverse acts. That to me is a problem that we should very much be trying to fix. 

So you've decided what he's thinking and won't admit it. Maybe he just doesn't want to go, nothing to do with his ethnicity, not everybody likes live music.

21 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

And this thread was about sexism as well as racism and really in almost 50 years of the festival do you not think that there could be more female representation amongst headliners. 

No. 

Only because I prefer a male voice, that's just my personal taste though. Despite this I can still enjoy a female act. Katy Perry was great, I'll have a great time at Kylie and I'd love Gaga to be there,  but not because of their voices, it's the act and the songs.