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37 minutes ago, strummer77 said:

It’s dead stupid to attack people who promote the right ideas and sympathise with the working class just because they weren’t all born poor. Give me that over a self serving Tory any day.

Also from the people locally who know and have followed them, they are genuine people who have faced their own demons, worked hard at it and done it the right way. 

Great set at The Park. Could have done with being a bit louder though. 

I understand your point, but their song I'm Scum says "I'm council housed and violent", when none of the members grew up on a council estate.

Good song though.

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1 minute ago, dentalplan said:

Ian Curtis voted Tory in the election where Thatcher got in.

Paul Weller used to say that he voted Tory, but I think that was just a means of riling up the London punk crowds who hated The Jam at the time.

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1 hour ago, dentalplan said:

This take has been done before and better tbf.

Don’t really get why peeps care about them being apparently middle class if their hearts and heads are in the right place and you agree with what they’re saying - Glastonbury is kept alive by middle class people like that. And it’s not like those naysayers are instead flocking to ‘working class festivals’ or rallying round ‘working class bands’.

I just don't like phonies, especially when there's hardly any working class bands around these days, except dross like The Courteeners. 

Also their music is very generic third rate Fall, so I don't get the hype. At least if they were doing something original fair enough. 

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6 hours ago, VCK said:

I understand your point, but their song I'm Scum says "I'm council housed and violent", when none of the members grew up on a council estate.

Good song though.

Yeah but isn’t it just a list  about different types of ‘ordinary’ people - a sort of rallying call? He’s not on a minimum wage job either. Not sure it’s a meant to be taken as autobiographical 

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6 hours ago, VCK said:

And on a side note but still on topic, Ian Brown and John Squire both grew up in a nice leafy suburb in South Manchester. :) 

Eh? Ian Brown grew up in Orford in Warrington, which is far from a nice leafy suburb. 

EDIT- actually that was only until he was 6, then he moved to timperley, which is alright

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7 hours ago, strummer77 said:

It’s dead stupid to attack people who promote the right ideas and sympathise with the working class just because they weren’t all born poor. Give me that over a self serving Tory any day.

Also from the people locally who know and have followed them, they are genuine people who have faced their own demons, worked hard at it and done it the right way. 

Great set at The Park. Could have done with being a bit louder though. 

I’ve seen them in various sized venues around Bristol area and I can’t say how genuine their politics are but what I can say is that they are genuine ordinary blokes with no ego.

As recently as last year they were all still working their day jobs(May still be but their touring schedule suggests not) and Dev the bassist is often seen checking out up and coming bands in Bristol. I saw him watching Heavy Lungs in Louisiana and Drug Church (I think) in the Exchange earlier this year and he’s always chatting to fans in the bar.

Bowen the guitarist is an NHS dentist and last I heard he had refused to go private (unconfirmed info from an indirect source)

if anyone doesn’t like their music then fair enough but I’d argue with anyone who calls them fake.

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17 hours ago, rivalschools.price said:

I’ve seen them in various sized venues around Bristol area and I can’t say how genuine their politics are but what I can say is that they are genuine ordinary blokes with no ego.

As recently as last year they were all still working their day jobs(May still be but their touring schedule suggests not) and Dev the bassist is often seen checking out up and coming bands in Bristol. I saw him watching Heavy Lungs in Louisiana and Drug Church (I think) in the Exchange earlier this year and he’s always chatting to fans in the bar.

Bowen the guitarist is an NHS dentist and last I heard he had refused to go private (unconfirmed info from an indirect source)

if anyone doesn’t like their music then fair enough but I’d argue with anyone who calls them fake.

Lived in Bristol and can say exactly the same, have had a few chats with them in the pub and they're all very down to earth.

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My issue with Idles, Owen Jones etc is they preach and lecture us about the need for mass immigration while living in affluent areas where less than 1% of people are immigrants. They have this strange idea that we're all going to live in a utopia holding hands where the only ones against integration are white people. Yet growing up in an area where the majority were first generation immigrants, I've found a lot of immigrants don't want to integrate and refuse to learn English or teach it to their children. And this is from a first hand experience, half my primary school class could not speak English and it brought the teaching standards down for everyone in the class. This idea that if you are against the idea of mass immigration while people are living the streets, schools are overcrowded, doctors and hospitals are over crowded, affordable housing is over subscribed, zero hour contracts, unemployment, food banks etc makes you a racist brexit voting BNP Farage lover is fucked up. Also they claim to care about the working classes, but can't see mass immigration affects them the most. But if that gets you "woke" points that's all that matters. 

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1 hour ago, Chinaski_ said:

My issue with Idles, Owen Jones etc is they preach and lecture us about the need for mass immigration while living in affluent areas where less than 1% of people are immigrants. They have this strange idea that we're all going to live in a utopia holding hands where the only ones against integration are white people. Yet growing up in an area where the majority were first generation immigrants, I've found a lot of immigrants don't want to integrate and refuse to learn English or teach it to their children. And this is from a first hand experience, half my primary school class could not speak English and it brought the teaching standards down for everyone in the class. This idea that if you are against the idea of mass immigration while people are living the streets, schools are overcrowded, doctors and hospitals are over crowded, affordable housing is over subscribed, zero hour contracts, unemployment, food banks etc makes you a racist brexit voting BNP Farage lover is fucked up. Also they claim to care about the working classes, but can't see mass immigration affects them the most. But if that gets you "woke" points that's all that matters. 

Gammon man

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2 hours ago, Chinaski_ said:

My issue with Idles, Owen Jones etc is they preach and lecture us about the need for mass immigration while living in affluent areas where less than 1% of people are immigrants. They have this strange idea that we're all going to live in a utopia holding hands where the only ones against integration are white people. Yet growing up in an area where the majority were first generation immigrants, I've found a lot of immigrants don't want to integrate and refuse to learn English or teach it to their children. And this is from a first hand experience, half my primary school class could not speak English and it brought the teaching standards down for everyone in the class. This idea that if you are against the idea of mass immigration while people are living the streets, schools are overcrowded, doctors and hospitals are over crowded, affordable housing is over subscribed, zero hour contracts, unemployment, food banks etc makes you a racist brexit voting BNP Farage lover is fucked up. Also they claim to care about the working classes, but can't see mass immigration affects them the most. But if that gets you "woke" points that's all that matters. 

“I’m not a racist but...”

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Rubber Soldier said:

“I’m not a racist but...”

 

 

I'm a racist brexit voting Farage loving BNP voter despite most of my friends being immigrants or from immigrants backgrounds, being of mixed heritage myself, living in an area my whole life full of immigrants and voting remain. Get fucked. 

And yet so called liberals wonder why Labour have lost so many working class votes.  Finger pointing calling people racists etc rather than actually putting together a decent argument and back slapping themselves over how "woke" they are. 

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2 hours ago, Chinaski_ said:

My issue with Idles, Owen Jones etc is they preach and lecture us about the need for mass immigration while living in affluent areas where less than 1% of people are immigrants. They have this strange idea that we're all going to live in a utopia holding hands where the only ones against integration are white people. Yet growing up in an area where the majority were first generation immigrants, I've found a lot of immigrants don't want to integrate and refuse to learn English or teach it to their children. And this is from a first hand experience, half my primary school class could not speak English and it brought the teaching standards down for everyone in the class. This idea that if you are against the idea of mass immigration while people are living the streets, schools are overcrowded, doctors and hospitals are over crowded, affordable housing is over subscribed, zero hour contracts, unemployment, food banks etc makes you a racist brexit voting BNP Farage lover is fucked up. Also they claim to care about the working classes, but can't see mass immigration affects them the most. But if that gets you "woke" points that's all that matters. 

Idles are from Bristol. Owen lives in London. Might want to check your immigration stats.You might have a point about some communities integrating but that isn't going to be addressed by EU immigration controls. In my experience hostility stems from access to services, which is an austerity issue not an immigration issue. You need to look at what has happened to local authority finances since 2010. 

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17 minutes ago, Levitz said:

Idles are from Bristol. Owen lives in London. Might want to check your immigration stats.You might have a point about some communities integrating but that isn't going to be addressed by EU immigration controls. In my experience hostility stems from access to services, which is an austerity issue not an immigration issue. You need to look at what has happened to local authority finances since 2010. 

Of course the Tories are to blame 100%. I just think calling people racist for saying we need to sort out the issues here before adding more to the population is what I don't agree with. As the two above prove. 

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6 minutes ago, Chinaski_ said:

Of course the Tories are to blame 100%. I just think calling people racist for saying we need to sort out the issues here before adding more to the population is what I don't agree with. As the two above prove. 

Blaming immigrants for the problems in your country is the route to fascism that's where the antipathy comes from. Maybe if people who blame immigration actually have a think about what the problem is that they want to solve and look at the route causes and solutions to that there could be debate. That doesn't happen. 

You also quoted massively incorrect figures and haven't walked back in that, another problem....

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3 hours ago, Chinaski_ said:

My issue with Idles, Owen Jones etc is they preach and lecture us about the need for mass immigration while living in affluent areas where less than 1% of people are immigrants. They have this strange idea that we're all going to live in a utopia holding hands where the only ones against integration are white people. Yet growing up in an area where the majority were first generation immigrants, I've found a lot of immigrants don't want to integrate and refuse to learn English or teach it to their children. And this is from a first hand experience, half my primary school class could not speak English and it brought the teaching standards down for everyone in the class. This idea that if you are against the idea of mass immigration while people are living the streets, schools are overcrowded, doctors and hospitals are over crowded, affordable housing is over subscribed, zero hour contracts, unemployment, food banks etc makes you a racist brexit voting BNP Farage lover is fucked up. Also they claim to care about the working classes, but can't see mass immigration affects them the most. But if that gets you "woke" points that's all that matters. 

In my experience (as someone who grew up in a 95% white area that has strong UKIP support, that moved to a very multi cultural city and who volunteers with refugees and asylum seekers) it’s the people who have the least amount of contact with non-white people who have the biggest issue with non-white people.

And yes there are problems in society but we are (despite what the Government and right wing press will tell you) a rich country.  We can afford to fund schools and hospitals.  We can afford to help the homeless and the poor and the old and the ex-service.  We choose not to.

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Just now, Levitz said:

Blaming immigrants for the problems in your country is the route to fascism that's where the antipathy comes from. Maybe if people who blame immigration actually have a think about what the problem is that they want to solve and look at the route causes and solutions to that there could be debate. That doesn't happen. 

I think there's a lot more to Brexit than just the "Britain is racist" rhetoric. Yes some of it was racist definitely, but I know people who voted for it as they wanted a change etc rather than them being racists and hating immigrants. I just don't like the "if you don't agree with what I say you're racist" argument, but I guess that comes from young people not being allowed discuss anything anymore without someone being offended and shutting it down. Unfortunately misguided people will fall for con artists like Boris, Farage, Trump etc but I think that's a fault of Labour too, for not focusing on social housing, jobs etc in their campaigns. I think there's so much to sort out in this country before thinking about leaving the EU etc. 

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2 minutes ago, ICGenie said:

In my experience (as someone who grew up in a 95% white area that has strong UKIP support, that moved to a very multi cultural city and who volunteers with refugees and asylum seekers) it’s the people who have the least amount of contact with non-white people who have the biggest issue with non-white people.

And yes there are problems in society but we are (despite what the Government and right wing press will tell you) a rich country.  We can afford to fund schools and hospitals.  We can afford to help the homeless and the poor and the old and the ex-service.  We choose not to.

This too

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5 minutes ago, Chinaski_ said:

I think there's a lot more to Brexit than just the "Britain is racist" rhetoric. Yes some of it was racist definitely, but I know people who voted for it as they wanted a change etc rather than them being racists and hating immigrants. I just don't like the "if you don't agree with what I say you're racist" argument, but I guess that comes from young people not being allowed discuss anything anymore without someone being offended and shutting it down. Unfortunately misguided people will fall for con artists like Boris, Farage, Trump etc but I think that's a fault of Labour too, for not focusing on social housing, jobs etc in their campaigns. I think there's so much to sort out in this country before thinking about leaving the EU etc. 

Labour have focused on left behind communities, housing, the NHS, austerity and welfare in their campaigns, no idea what you've been watching. 

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6 minutes ago, ICGenie said:

In my experience (as someone who grew up in a 95% white area that has strong UKIP support, that moved to a very multi cultural city and who volunteers with refugees and asylum seekers) it’s the people who have the least amount of contact with non-white people who have the biggest issue with non-white people.

And yes there are problems in society but we are (despite what the Government and right wing press will tell you) a rich country.  We can afford to fund schools and hospitals.  We can afford to help the homeless and the poor and the old and the ex-service.  We choose not to.

Completely agree and more to my point I can see why people from those areas connect with Idles than someone like me would. 

I presume I was called racist by others for saying some immigrants don't integrate and learn the language? But how is that different from us laughing at Brits who move to Spain etc and don't integrate or learn the language? Seems hypocritical to me. 

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