Jeremy Corbyn

[Jakeyboi135]

On 12/30/2018 at 12:59 PM, TheNoise said:

I saw that as her running scared. I don't believe for one minute any politician wanted to deal with brexit once it became clear what was involved, May included. I also believe that's one of the reasons Corbyn won't call for a no-confidence in the government, he doesn't want to take on the task either. I can't see Corbyn as PM after an election, I doubt any one party will win, we're stuck with coalitions which is what nobody votes for.

Exactly this. Brexit is a loser for anyone in charge, because it's impossible to please either camp without immediately pissing off half of the voters, and a deal to please both just doesn't exist. It's much easier to sit back and watch it all go to pot and then claim it's all Mays fault and try and sweep up at the next ge. Win win for Corbyn, gets out of the EU as he's always wanted and can then call a no confidence vote when it's too late for anything to be done. 

[reflekting]

Time for Jeremy to go, time for Theresa to go. This whole saga is beyond farcical now. The backstop discussion is a joke, we are legally bound to respect the wishes of Irish Nationalists living in the North, in the same way the Irish government is legally bound to respect the wishes of Unionists. The ERG need to polish up on the Good Friday Agreement and go back into their holes. 

[Ayrshire Chris]

His reluctance to support a second referendum will hurt him and the party. 

[grumpyhack]

Brexit is a poisoned chalice no one wants to hold.  But someone's got to step up and sort it.  Time for two new leaders.

[Crazyfool01]

I'm gobsmacked he doesn't talk to her .... I mean even to tell her that they will only accept x ..... he just looks more and more incompetent by the day ... no point to that vote there was never a hope in winning it ... just like hers...  just more delays when the clock is ticking 

[The Other Steve]

35 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

no point to that vote there was never a hope in winning it ... just like hers...  just more delays when the clock is ticking 

He had to do it though otherwise he would have been criticised for not.  Its a case of damned if you damned if you don't.

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, reflekting said:

The backstop discussion is a joke, we are legally bound to respect the wishes of Irish Nationalists living in the North, in the same way the Irish government is legally bound to respect the wishes of Unionists.

yep.

But we're not legally bound to give the EU a claim over UK sovereignty because of the GFA, and that's the issue that's stopping MPs being able to vote for May's deal. I understand why Ireland wants a legal guarantee, but I also identified over 2 years ago that this might be the cause of them getting the opposite of what they want. Wars have been started for less.

As for Jez, there's a reason why the vast majority of Labour MPs who know him thought he was a poor choice as leader. Even now May has greater confidence from her MPs than Jez was able to manage when it was put to a vote.

[RichardWaller]

On 12/29/2018 at 8:43 AM, TheNoise said:

Yes they can, but should a democratic vote be overturned ? I voted remain and despite what I think should or shouldn't happen next, that's not what the majority voted for. I personally think that's why Corbyn is dithering so much, he doesn't want to be seen as going against a democratic referendum. Would it set a precedent ? Don't like the result ? Forget it and do something else. Or just keep holding referenda until the 'right' result is reached (sorry Sturgeon supporters) ?

'Manchester votes against a directly elected mayor' 4th May 2012

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-17949390

'Greater Manchester mayor results: Andy Burnham elected' 5th May 2017

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39822225

Not even a second referendum for that one, government just slung a directly elected mayor in with their Devolution Act in 2016.

Course, Brexit is much bigger than whether Manchester has an elected mayor or not. Yeah, the turnout was shit for the Manchester mayor one but if that isn't a mandate.. well, MPs have been elected for less. Really think it's just a matter of when it suits. 

It's a mess, but I dunno, I get the feeling that if Brexit didn't happen overall people would have less of a hard time getting over that than if it does, there's less finality to remaining than leaving. On the other hand, you've got Chris Grayling banging on about how blocking Brexit could lead to a surge in the far right. So he wants to appease the far right.. fuck that. 

I'm just glad I'm not responsible for this shit show and I'm buggered if I know what this fucked up country is thinking.

[mashedonmud]

13 hours ago, grumpyhack said:

Brexit is a poisoned chalice no one wants to hold.  But someone's got to step up and sort it.  Time for two new leaders.

Maybe time another party came out the shadows and take both of these 'leaders' to task. Could be a huge springboard for an alternative way. IMO. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by mashedonmud

[TheNoise]

2 hours ago, RichardWaller said:

'Manchester votes against a directly elected mayor' 4th May 2012

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-17949390

'Greater Manchester mayor results: Andy Burnham elected' 5th May 2017

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39822225

Not even a second referendum for that one, government just slung a directly elected mayor in with their Devolution Act in 2016.

Course, Brexit is much bigger than whether Manchester has an elected mayor or not. Yeah, the turnout was shit for the Manchester mayor one but if that isn't a mandate.. well, MPs have been elected for less. Really think it's just a matter of when it suits. 

It's a mess, but I dunno, I get the feeling that if Brexit didn't happen overall people would have less of a hard time getting over that than if it does, there's less finality to remaining than leaving. On the other hand, you've got Chris Grayling banging on about how blocking Brexit could lead to a surge in the far right. So he wants to appease the far right.. fuck that. 

I'm just glad I'm not responsible for this shit show and I'm buggered if I know what this fucked up country is thinking.

FWIW I completely agree with you.

Although, that's not what I got from what Grayling said. I took it to mean that he wants to avoid a surge in the far right, not appease them.

[Bags73]

I think the far right is getting coverage way beyond the level of support it actually has.   Social media is largely to blame.  As for the hard right Brexiters they're just a small rump in Parliament.  It took them ages to raise 49 votes to trigger a leadership contest vs May.      The media love them as they give great copy and say emotive things.  Again they get more coverage than they deserve.

 

[Homer]

Corbyn not speaking to her is ridiculous. The country is sick to death of Brexit and he needs to at least make it looks like he's trying to put the country first. He's making himself look like part of the problem.

[SwedgeAntilles]

1 minute ago, Homer said:

Corbyn not speaking to her is ridiculous. The country is sick to death of Brexit and he needs to at least make it looks like he's trying to put the country first. He's making himself look like part of the problem.

Tbf Sturgeon has already confirmed that her meeting May was a waste of time because she refuses to revisit any of her red lines. Corbyn at least saw it for what it was for May all along; a pointless PR exercise 

[Homer]

Just now, SwedgeAntilles said:

Tbf Sturgeon has already confirmed that her meeting May was a waste of time because she refuses to revisit any of her red lines. Corbyn at least saw it for what it was for May all along; a pointless PR exercise 

How the f&ck May thinks she can still get this through parliament with some tweaking is beyond me! Need to start road testing other options. I can't take any more of this!

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, Homer said:

Corbyn not speaking to her is ridiculous. The country is sick to death of Brexit and he needs to at least make it looks like he's trying to put the country first. He's making himself look like part of the problem.

had exactly this conversation this morning whilst having my hair cut ..... did find myself biting my tongue but his lack of speaking to her was more the topic of conversation than the cock up that's fine being currently made 

[SwedgeAntilles]

1 minute ago, Homer said:

How the f&ck May thinks she can still get this through parliament with some tweaking is beyond me! Need to start road testing other options. I can't take any more of this!

She's a f*cking idiot.

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

Tbf Sturgeon has already confirmed that her meeting May was a waste of time because she refuses to revisit any of her red lines. Corbyn at least saw it for what it was for May all along; a pointless PR exercise 

Cable, Lucas, and the PC person have all said that they got the chance to have their say, including one saying that they had a fair bit of discussion about a 2nd ref.

While there might not be any point in further talks at the mo, they at least gave May some stuff to think about.

Those others obviously knew what they wanted to say, with details. Does anyone know if Corbyn actually knows the detail of what he might say?

Remember, Corbyn is the geezer who says he'd talk (and does!) with terrorists.

[hfuhruhurr]

Brexit cannot be solved.

That's it.

(article 50 wasn't thought through by anyone - it's not a winnable process).

[Homer]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Cable, Lucas, and the PC person have all said that they got the chance to have their say, including one saying that they had a fair bit of discussion about a 2nd ref.

While there might not be any point in further talks at the mo, they at least gave May some stuff to think about.

Those others obviously knew what they wanted to say, with details. Does anyone know if Corbyn actually knows the detail of what he might say?

Remember, Corbyn is the geezer who says he'd talk (and does!) with terrorists.

'Can I have a general election please?'

[Mezhyp1]

13 minutes ago, hfuhruhurr said:

Brexit cannot be solved.

That's it.

(article 50 wasn't thought through by anyone - it's not a winnable process).

This 

There is no solution that can be settled on. Even a second referendum, we all know that wouldn't be unanimous enough in either direction to be definitive moving forwards, then what - best of 3? 

It's an almighty fucking mess 

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, Mezhyp1 said:

Even a second referendum, we all know that wouldn't be unanimous enough in either direction to be definitive moving forwards

actually, it looks like it would be decisive in the way the result of the last one wasn't.

If any of the real possibilities for what brexit might be are put up for a vote against remain, remain wins hands down.

We're talking 60/40 or better.

Even a straight 'remain vs leave' is now running at 56/44.

[Hugh Jass]

I for one admire May for fucking all this up so badly there's now a slim chance it might never happen.

[TheNoise]

14 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

actually, it looks like it would be decisive in the way the result of the last one wasn't.

If any of the real possibilities for what brexit might be are put up for a vote against remain, remain wins hands down.

We're talking 60/40 or better.

Even a straight 'remain vs leave' is now running at 56/44.

I hope it would be a straight remain/leave choice. Imagine how shit it would be if the options were May's deal/no deal.

[FrancisH]

43 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Cable, Lucas, and the PC person have all said that they got the chance to have their say, including one saying that they had a fair bit of discussion about a 2nd ref.

While there might not be any point in further talks at the mo, they at least gave May some stuff to think about.

Those others obviously knew what they wanted to say, with details. Does anyone know if Corbyn actually knows the detail of what he might say?

Remember, Corbyn is the geezer who says he'd talk (and does!) with terrorists.

She has already said that she will not budge on her 'principles', secondly what other parties are asking for would mean civil war in the Tory party which has already been stated by the hard brexiteers within the party if she budges on some of her existing red lines.

This entire thing is purely an exercise in time wasting posturing. To think May will even 'think' about anything is delusion. In a few weeks time May will dump exactly the same deal in front of parliament, having killed some time in the process with 'constructive talks' and the threat of no deal much more real.

[Superunknown]

50 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Cable, Lucas, and the PC person have all said that they got the chance to have their say, including one saying that they had a fair bit of discussion about a 2nd ref.

 

Adam Price, FWIW.