Download 2020

[Spiral_Low]

17 minutes ago, Pop Punk Sucks said:

 

Bizarre point to make and you actually defeat your own argument with the points you make. 

ADTR are far more of a Download band than a R+L band at this point given where R+L is now. The idea that rock/metal fans and the average DL attendee doesn't like ADTR is nonsense, they got a huge crowd when sub-headlining and people into heavy rock/metal also like them, look at America for example, ADTR are playing big slots at those festivals and they wouldn't be doing that if people into Disturbed etc hated them. 

ADTR sub headlining R+L actually shows how big a crossover appeal they actually have given they've subbed at Download recently too. They must have shifted a hell of a lot of tickets on that recent run for the bookers at R+L to give them that sub-headline slot under Foos. Smashing Pumpkins and maybe Faith No More aside, there isn't a single band that have sub-headlined Download in the last 5 years who would have another crossover appeal to do the same at R+L. Korn and Deftones for example would only get a 3rd down slot at R+L these days. 

That being said I think there are quite a few other bands in the pecking order for headlining DL before ADTR, but they're undoubtedly up there and capable of headlining. 

I mean i've talked about this in the follow up posts but hey just ignore them, whatever.

[Pop Punk Sucks]

8 minutes ago, Spiral_Low said:

I mean i've talked about this in the follow up posts but hey just ignore them, whatever.

 

I did read those. You said you thought ADTR were no way big enough to headline Download, which is simply not true. Whether they're the 3rd biggest band available to Copping to book to headline 2020 is another story of course. 

[thewayiam]

1 hour ago, Pop Punk Sucks said:

 

Bizarre point to make and you actually defeat your own argument with the points you make. 

ADTR are far more of a Download band than a R+L band at this point given where R+L is now. The idea that rock/metal fans and the average DL attendee doesn't like ADTR is nonsense, they got a huge crowd when sub-headlining and people into heavy rock/metal also like them, look at America for example, ADTR are playing big slots at those festivals and they wouldn't be doing that if people into Disturbed etc hated them. 

ADTR sub headlining R+L actually shows how big a crossover appeal they actually have given they've subbed at Download recently too. They must have shifted a hell of a lot of tickets on that recent run for the bookers at R+L to give them that sub-headline slot under Foos. Smashing Pumpkins and maybe Faith No More aside, there isn't a single band that have sub-headlined Download in the last 5 years who would have another crossover appeal to do the same at R+L. Korn and Deftones for example would only get a 3rd down slot at R+L these days. 

That being said I think there are quite a few other bands in the pecking order for headlining DL before ADTR, but they're undoubtedly up there and capable of headlining. 

Tbf I thought ADTR might only go up one slot from their last Reading appearance but it's an addition I'd take over what it could have been...I'd rather them than RB as saw them recently. I do however not think Foos needed the biggest sub option and its fair to say that the two co-headliners shift tickets quicker and the sub/3rd that day probs my is of a lesser size as Post isn't cheap. Of interest to me or not it's a strong top two.

[Spiral_Low]

1 hour ago, Pop Punk Sucks said:

 

I did read those. You said you thought ADTR were no way big enough to headline Download, which is simply not true. Whether they're the 3rd biggest band available to Copping to book to headline 2020 is another story of course. 

Well its matter of opinion obviously.  I just don't see them as headliners. And after what happened 1st year with AX7 i'm sure Download wouldn't want a repeat. Yeah they can carry on sub headlining and thats fine. Maybe in 3-4 years they could get bumped up. But 2020 I just don't see it. 

[Pop Punk Sucks]

I don't think it's likely in 2020, but could certainly happen if Download were as proactive at pushing bands to headline as R+L are. 

[Spiral_Low]

10 minutes ago, Pop Punk Sucks said:

I don't think it's likely in 2020, but could certainly happen if Download were as proactive at pushing bands to headline as R+L are. 

But R+L is s different crowd as i'm saying. That festival follows trends and aims for a 16 to 25 crowd. Download has the hard rock/metal crowd which is loyal but never gonna be anywhere near as big in scope as R+L. I think amongst the Download crowd ADTR aren't headliner level and I can't see them attracting another new people to Download to make the risk it worth it.

[Andre91]

A Day To Remember / Architects / Limp Bizkit 

Megadeth 

Rammstein / Deftones / Within Temptation 

Don Broco   

KISS / Ghost / Greta Van Fleet 

Gojira 

[DomDom1984]

A Day to Remember are a band on an upwards trajectory. That much can't really be denied. Their arena tour did a bit better than I thought it would and they seem to have quite a decent appeal. Although I do think they should do DL before their own tour if they're to headline. Could do with the added incentive to see them there.

If they did that, then I could easily see them have a successful headline slot at this.

[dentalplan]

I still think Korn are gonna headline next year.

I agree with what @Spiral_Low is saying, I think. Korn are a safer headliner than ADTR; generally well known outside of metal and crossover within the subsections of Download, plus they’re already stepping up at plenty of festivals similar to Download so it’s not really gonna look weird when it happens. If the rock/metal festival scene was crying out for new blood, it’d look a lot different already.

Edited February 2, 2019 by dentalplan

[Spiral_Low]

1 hour ago, dentalplan said:

I still think Korn are gonna headline next year.

I agree with what @Spiral_Low is saying, I think. Korn are a safer headliner than ADTR; generally well known outside of metal and crossover within the subsections of Download, plus they’re already stepping up at plenty of festivals similar to Download so it’s not really gonna look weird when it happens. If the rock/metal festival scene was crying out for new blood, it’d look a lot different already.

Aye what you've said here is spot on.

[KingPin]

Bumping up ADTR would be fine as long as one of the other headliners were Maiden or Metallica, the issue when they originally bumped up Avenged was that mainstage was weak that year. 

[thewayiam]

On 2/2/2019 at 1:18 PM, Spiral_Low said:

But R+L is s different crowd as i'm saying. That festival follows trends and aims for a 16 to 25 crowd. Download has the hard rock/metal crowd which is loyal but never gonna be anywhere near as big in scope as R+L. I think amongst the Download crowd ADTR aren't headliner level and I can't see them attracting another new people to Download to make the risk it worth it.

16 to 25?, I'll give it 22 tops with about 4 overs lol...including me 

23 hours ago, Spiral_Low said:

Aye what you've said here is spot on.

Can't see Korn getting the bump up, who do you put as a decent sub and 3rd etc below a band who only play Brixton at the biggest in size?, can't include the arena tour before than as that was a nastolgia gig and surely if they then could have gone on from that to do their own arenas they would have instead of Brixton.

Korn would get a huge crowd at Download don't get me wrong but you are looking at one crazy weak day to book them to headline. Not being funny or anything but you would be looking at a top two of Korn and Within Temptation for e.g., can't even getaway QOTSA to sub them as they were on full.vlown arenas last time and probably will be on next album too. I think ADTR would only do it if they got say Matallica and Rammstein/Maiden.

[Spiral_Low]

1 hour ago, thewayiam said:

16 to 25?, I'll give it 22 tops with about 4 overs lol...including me 

Can't see Korn getting the bump up, who do you put as a decent sub and 3rd etc below a band who only play Brixton at the biggest in size?, can't include the arena tour before than as that was a nastolgia gig and surely if they then could have gone on from that to do their own arenas they would have instead of Brixton.

Korn would get a huge crowd at Download don't get me wrong but you are looking at one crazy weak day to book them to headline. Not being funny or anything but you would be looking at a top two of Korn and Within Temptation for e.g., can't even getaway QOTSA to sub them as they were on full.vlown arenas last time and probably will be on next album too. I think ADTR would only do it if they got say Matallica and Rammstein/Maiden.

Haha well shows what I mean about Reading - can't be used as a guide for Download crowd which feels pretty spread out between 18 and 65! 

If Korn headlined Limb Bizkit would be an obvious sub (im no fan of them just to say), like you said arena tour did well. Personally I think Deftones or Prophets Of Rage would be a good sub to them. Alice In Chains potentially too. 3rd down like FFDP or Disturbed and suddenly that looks pretty strong!

Edited February 4, 2019 by Spiral_Low

[thewayiam]

16 minutes ago, Spiral_Low said:

Haha well shows what I mean about Reading - can't be used as a guide for Download crowd which feels pretty spread out between 18 and 65! 

If Korn headlined Limb Bizkit would be an obvious sub (im no fan of them just to say), like you said arena tour did well. Personally I think Deftones or Prophets Of Rage would be a good sub to them. Alice In Chains potentially too. 3rd down like FFDP or Disturbed and suddenly that looks pretty strong!

Limp Bizkit are not a sub or on their that's the issue, 3rd down tops or and stage headliner so straight away you are putting a band higher, Deftones do the same venues as Korn....they even did a bigger venue I think....another issue and POR are not a strong sub. AIC are a 3rd down band...too many bands here in 2nd when they aren't a sub and FFDP and Disturbed would play at least where Korn would. This is what I'm saying you can say that looks pretty strong but it wouldn't be booked like that, why would FFDP, Disturbed and Deftones play under a band that they play the same venues as and probably sell as many tickets as.

That's why as Andre said ADTR are the next logical step, if they can pull of the Reading sub set well then I think download will take the punt...it's not often nowadays that a heavier band get a sub slot at Reading, about 3 times since 2009 and twice in about 6/7, I'm not including 30 STM back in 11. 

Next year probably is when Download finally book Metallica again too so chuck in a Rammstein if they are about and ADTR would probably do fine with a decent sub.

[Spiral_Low]

9 hours ago, thewayiam said:

Limp Bizkit are not a sub or on their that's the issue, 3rd down tops or and stage headliner so straight away you are putting a band higher, Deftones do the same venues as Korn....they even did a bigger venue I think....another issue and POR are not a strong sub. AIC are a 3rd down band...too many bands here in 2nd when they aren't a sub and FFDP and Disturbed would play at least where Korn would. This is what I'm saying you can say that looks pretty strong but it wouldn't be booked like that, why would FFDP, Disturbed and Deftones play under a band that they play the same venues as and probably sell as many tickets as.

That's why as Andre said ADTR are the next logical step, if they can pull of the Reading sub set well then I think download will take the punt...it's not often nowadays that a heavier band get a sub slot at Reading, about 3 times since 2009 and twice in about 6/7, I'm not including 30 STM back in 11. 

Next year probably is when Download finally book Metallica again too so chuck in a Rammstein if they are about and ADTR would probably do fine with a decent sub.

FFDP, Deftones and Disturbed pretty much all owe a good chunk of the sucess they have had to Korn. So I can't see them complaining. Always use the 'special guests' tag if Deftones subbed anyway. And Prophets Of Rage went down very well when they subbed in 2017.

Also how can you claim ATDR can headline cuz they play arenas but Alice In Chains who are also playing arenas are a 3rd down band? I know you keep saying Reading but like i've said several times due to the difference between the R+L crowd and the Download crowd I don't think it should be a factor.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Spiral_Low

[antros23]

korn/ deftones/ limp bizkit

tenacious d/greta van fleet

 

alter bridge/ ghost/architects

within temptation/ breaking benjamin

 

rammstein/ffdp/megadeth

the offspring/ papa roach

[thewayiam]

3 hours ago, Spiral_Low said:

FFDP, Deftones and Disturbed pretty much all owe a good chunk of the sucess they have had to Korn. So I can't see them complaining. Always use the 'special guests' tag if Deftones subbed anyway. And Prophets Of Rage went down very well when they subbed in 2017.

Also how can you claim ATDR can headline cuz they play arenas but Alice In Chains who are also playing arenas are a 3rd down band? I know you keep saying Reading but like i've said several times due to the difference between the R+L crowd and the Download crowd I don't think it should be a factor.

Who your success is down to doesn't matter, if you are bigger ticket seller now then you are. They might not complain so much at subbing but not 3rd down. ADTR are clearly a bigger and wider seller than AIC are.

[Spiral_Low]

1 hour ago, thewayiam said:

Who your success is down to doesn't matter, if you are bigger ticket seller now then you are. They might not complain so much at subbing but not 3rd down. ADTR are clearly a bigger and wider seller than AIC are.

Its not purely about selling tickets for their own shows though. Its also who is a suitable headliner for the Download crowd, who has a bunch of hits and would get a good audience. Korn are headlining festivals elsewhere, have been around for ages, played Download a bunch of times in different slots - they have put the work in.

ADTR are big atm sure. And will no doubt continue to be. But in terms of a Download crowd Alice In Chains are long established band. So really I think both are suitable sub-headliners. Both have a different appeal.

Saying all this Korn will probs end up subbing again haha especially too Metallica or Rammsten. 

[thewayiam]

3 hours ago, Spiral_Low said:

Its not purely about selling tickets for their own shows though. Its also who is a suitable headliner for the Download crowd, who has a bunch of hits and would get a good audience. Korn are headlining festivals elsewhere, have been around for ages, played Download a bunch of times in different slots - they have put the work in.

ADTR are big atm sure. And will no doubt continue to be. But in terms of a Download crowd Alice In Chains are long established band. So really I think both are suitable sub-headliners. Both have a different appeal.

Saying all this Korn will probs end up subbing again haha especially too Metallica or Rammsten. 

This is the point, when it comes down to it they won't headline and as is said where a band headlines outside of the UK really doesn't matter.

I wouldn't have paired Korn up with Disturbed either, I like the latter and am almost not bothered at all about Korn, Deftones and FFDP is more arguable but again they aren't my thing.

When it comes down to it you aren't going to put an arena band whether it's not all about that or not under an academy band.

[Andre91]

A Day To Remember / Architects / Limp Bizkit 

Megadeth 

Rammstein / Deftones / Mastodon 

Don Broco (or Within Temptation) 

KISS (final UK show) / Ghost / Greta Van Fleet 

Gojira 

[dentalplan]

Saturday seems tight but I think that would flop hard. The Limp Bizkit into Architects facet seems particularly far out.

I think booking Kiss would be plain reckless at this point. They’re just not strong enough, not even with it being their final show. The only thing that could muster some interest would be Frehley returning, but they’d plan a whole nother farewell tour for that shit.

[dentalplan]

Not for 2020 but I think Foos play on the next album tour. They’ve played Download over in France, playing hard rock and metal fests regularly now, done Glasto and Reading recently, IOW and TRNSMT are pyar Brexit... it’s all but set up for ‘em now.

[Andre91]

1 hour ago, dentalplan said:

Saturday seems tight but I think that would flop hard. The Limp Bizkit into Architects facet seems particularly far out.

I think booking Kiss would be plain reckless at this point. They’re just not strong enough, not even with it being their final show. The only thing that could muster some interest would be Frehley returning, but they’d plan a whole nother farewell tour for that shit.

If Bizkit finally get a new album out I don’t see why they wouldn’t be on the cards for Download and I didn’t know where else to fit them. Could they sub? 

ADTR and Architects would be a solid top two for the Friday and would fit really well one after the other and I’m sticking with that for now.

Whilst we all know that KISS are shite now, I don’t think that’d stop AC booking them on their final appearance. That’s why I put Gojira on second opposite them  I guess you could have Maiden there on the Sunday but I have toyed with the idea of putting Queen + Adam Lambert in that Sunday headline slot. I think it’d work. Queen’s profile is unbelievable right now. 

I wouldn’t be shocked to see Run The Jewels booked in a prominent position in 2020 either after Die Antwoord. They’re also playing that BMTH day at APE so the organisers will see how well received they are by a more ‘rock’ orientated audience, perhaps. 

Greta Van Fleet is an interesting one. They’re already headlining festivals stateside and whilst third down might seem a stretch now, by the time 2020 rolls around, could they even sub?  

 

[dentalplan]

17 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

If Bizkit finally get a new album out I don’t see why they wouldn’t be on the cards for Download and I didn’t know where else to fit them. Could they sub? 

ADTR and Architects would be a solid top two for the Friday and would fit really well one after the other and I’m sticking with that for now.

Whilst we all know that KISS are shite now, I don’t think that’d stop AC booking them on their final appearance. That’s why I put Gojira on second opposite them  I guess you could have Maiden there on the Sunday but I have toyed with the idea of putting Queen + Adam Lambert in that Sunday headline slot. I think it’d work. Queen’s profile is unbelievable right now. 

I wouldn’t be shocked to see Run The Jewels booked in a prominent position in 2020 either after Die Antwoord. They’re also playing that BMTH day at APE so the organisers will see how well received they are by a more ‘rock’ orientated audience, perhaps. 

Greta Van Fleet is an interesting one. They’re already headlining festivals stateside and whilst third down might seem a stretch now, by the time 2020 rolls around, could they even sub?  

 

Lot to unpack there.

I don’t think ADTR and Architects is solid, personally. People who haven’t been keeping up with rock music in the last few years (wonder if there are many of those at Download ?) will have minimal knowledge of either and outside of these circles they are unknowns. Either would be a risk, but together would be crazy.

I think Limp Bizkit would sub, yeah. Greta Van Fleet have a decent chance of doing it too imo - probably better chance than Ghost. And Run the Jewels would be great - I could totally see that.

And yeah, about Kiss. I don’t think it’s just a case of them being shit - they are struggling to pack people in on their first proper arena tour in years, last tour ever, etc. I don’t know what’s in it for Download to get them for a third time when it’s quite likely not even gonna be their final tour.

Queen would be a good booking for Sunday but I do actually think it’ll be Maiden.

[Andre91]

1 hour ago, dentalplan said:

Lot to unpack there.

I don’t think ADTR and Architects is solid, personally. People who haven’t been keeping up with rock music in the last few years (wonder if there are many of those at Download ?) will have minimal knowledge of either and outside of these circles they are unknowns. Either would be a risk, but together would be crazy.

I think Limp Bizkit would sub, yeah. Greta Van Fleet have a decent chance of doing it too imo - probably better chance than Ghost. And Run the Jewels would be great - I could totally see that.

And yeah, about Kiss. I don’t think it’s just a case of them being shit - they are struggling to pack people in on their first proper arena tour in years, last tour ever, etc. I don’t know what’s in it for Download to get them for a third time when it’s quite likely not even gonna be their final tour.

Queen would be a good booking for Sunday but I do actually think it’ll be Maiden.

Damn you, Dental, for making so much sense  

Bizkit would make a good sub for ADTR, wouldn’t they. Big nostalgia act that will pull in a massive crowd that will hopefully stick around for the start of ADTR. 

Architects subbing has to happen (just make sure the logo is the right size  ) 

I think both Ghost and GVF could both sub or be third down, I guess it’s just which order you want to predict them. 

Where do you think RTJ would play? I would guess third down main or second stage headliner.