Friend or Foe? - Glastonbury festival volunteering.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

 

Hello all,

I've had this website pointed out to me, and wondered what your views are, or whether you can provide further information;

https://mycauseuk.com/event/glastonbury-festival-volunteer/

Just to add that I've looked in to Director (Robin Edward Charles Wilkinson), and discovered this;

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/SRyQigEu2IpSN3xfxd_eLy34d8k/appointments

Now, according to the the site of MY CAUSE UK C.I.C. (10662964) it gives the following quote;

"My Cause UK have provided our gate staff for the past 3 years. We know that whenever they’re there, we're in safe hands. We also love the fact that they donate so much to so many charities. It’s a win - win for everyone involved” - Chris Rutherford, Director, Boomtown Fair.

However, MY CAUSE UK C.I.C. (10662964), was only registered on 10 March 2017, so in that form cannot have provided services for 3 years. Now it may be that they are referring to MY CAUSE UK EVENTS LIMITED (09549843) which is still active, but surely as a limited company, has no association with  MY CAUSE UK C.I.C. (10662964) - only it does, in that the director is the same person. So, why are  MY CAUSE UK C.I.C. (10662964) able to use that quote from Chris Rutherford on their website?

In addition, to my minds eye, you have to wonder that two private limited companies were set up, before a CIC was formed.

Over to you.

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Yoghurt on a Stick

[eastynh]

9 minutes ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

 

Hello all,

I've had this website pointed out to me, and wondered what your views are, or whether you can provide further information;

https://mycauseuk.com/event/glastonbury-festival-volunteer/

Just to add that I've looked in to Director (Robin Edward Charles Wilkinson), and discovered this;

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/SRyQigEu2IpSN3xfxd_eLy34d8k/appointments

Now, according to the the site of MY CAUSE UK C.I.C. (10662964) it gives the following quote;

Robin Edward Charles Wilkinson"My Cause UK have provided our gate staff for the past 3 years. We know that whenever they’re there, we're in safe hands. We also love the fact that they donate so much to so many charities. It’s a win - win for everyone involved” - Chris Rutherford, Director, Boomtown Fair.

However, MY CAUSE UK C.I.C. (10662964), was only registered on 10 March 2017, so in that form cannot have provided services for 3 years. Now it may be that they are referring to MY CAUSE UK EVENTS LIMITED (09549843) which is still active, but surely as a limited company, has no association with  MY CAUSE UK C.I.C. (10662964) - only it does, in that the director is the same person. So, why are  MY CAUSE UK C.I.C. (10662964) able to use that quote from Chris Rutherford on their website?

In addition, to my minds eye, you have to wonder that two private limited companies were set up, before a CIC was formed.

Over to you.

 

Mate I would register my interest if Borris Johnson said he could get me in, at the minute. 

[incident]

MyCause are legitimate, and have been at a few festivals I've been at over the past (at least) 2 years. Just from a couple things I've heard they wouldn't be my first choice but wouldn't be the last one either. No idea about the company or charity status, but it's not that unusual in festival world for companies to be dissolved and reformed. It could just be that they used the ltd company while waiting to be certified as a CIC?

However, if they've previously provided staff at Glastonbury I can't remember it - certainly not in significant numbers anyway. So it may be that they've got a deal to provide staff next year, or it could just be that they're recruiting names in the hope of getting a contract.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

6 minutes ago, incident said:

MyCause are legitimate, and have been at a few festivals I've been at over the past (at least) 2 years. Just from a couple things I've heard they wouldn't be my first choice but wouldn't be the last one either. No idea about the company or charity status, but it's not that unusual in festival world for companies to be dissolved and reformed. It could just be that they used the ltd company while waiting to be certified as a CIC?

However, if they've previously provided staff at Glastonbury I can't remember it - certainly not in significant numbers anyway. So it may be that they've got a deal to provide staff next year, or it could just be that they're recruiting names in the hope of getting a contract.

I get what you are saying, but think that it's a bit dubious for the CIC to use a quote that has nothing / or little to do with that CIC. 

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

 

Meant to say - I think I'm more on the fence on this one than not -hence the request for further information and thoughts.

[incident]

2 hours ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

I get what you are saying, but think that it's a bit dubious for the CIC to use a quote that has nothing / or little to do with that CIC. 

While you're right, it's something I'd find difficult to get too angry over given that they can pretty much draw a straight line connecting the two organisations.

There's plenty worse examples of dubious advertising around the festival scene that go largely unchecked, the most obvious one is IOW festivals attempt to claim a lineage back to 1968..

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

7 minutes ago, incident said:

While you're right, it's something I'd find difficult to get too angry over given that they can pretty much draw a straight line connecting the two organisations.

There's plenty worse examples of dubious advertising around the festival scene that go largely unchecked, the most obvious one is IOW festivals attempt to claim a lineage back to 1968..

I'm not angry about it. I rarely get angry about anything - mostly because of laziness, as opposed to having achieved some zen like state.

The above said, it did make me wonder a little, and it was that concern which drove me to post in the first place. I just didn't want to see another Sundrive hire thing happen. Happy to hear that they appear to be bona fide.

[Sasperella]

The only thing I know about them is their stewards at boomtown had to do less shifts than us (Oxfam). But I've never heard of them as an organisation  before....or since until your post.

[mandolin]

3 hours ago, incident said:

MyCause are legitimate, and have been at a few festivals I've been at over the past (at least) 2 years. Just from a couple things I've heard they wouldn't be my first choice but wouldn't be the last one either. No idea about the company or charity status, but it's not that unusual in festival world for companies to be dissolved and reformed. It could just be that they used the ltd company while waiting to be certified as a CIC?

However, if they've previously provided staff at Glastonbury I can't remember it - certainly not in significant numbers anyway. So it may be that they've got a deal to provide staff next year, or it could just be that they're recruiting names in the hope of getting a contract.

As someone desperate to go to Glastonbury (and actually considering volunteering at other festivals too) ... what would make them not your first choice?

[incident]

58 minutes ago, Sasperella said:

The only thing I know about them is their stewards at boomtown had to do less shifts than us (Oxfam). But I've never heard of them as an organisation  before....or since until your post.

While it's certainly possible - likely even - that some of their stewards got allocated less, they advertised it as the standard 3x8 and the one person I know who was working for them at Boomtown this year definitely did 3x8. It's not unknown that the same thing happens with Oxfam, I was working with them at Boomtown as well and spoke to a couple people who'd only been given 2 shifts, the other side of that coin being that they were perceived "bad" shifts (can't actually remember if it was 2 headliner shifts or 2 night shifts - something along those lines anyway)..

20 minutes ago, mandolin said:

As someone desperate to go to Glastonbury (and actually considering volunteering at other festivals too) ... what would make them not your first choice?

In general terms - Working at Festivals can be frustrating at times, it's often a constantly changing environment where nobody really knows what's going on or what the right answer is (some festivals more than others - and that's even after attempting to check the answer via event control). Oxfam is my first choice as from everything I've seen they tend to be the best at designing and keeping a structure, communicating what's needed to their staff, and protecting their staff from the inconsistencies of festival organisers. It doesn't sound like MyCause have that level of organisation in place at this point though that doesn't mean they can't get there.

Specifically with regards to Glastonbury, there's a bit more uncertainty than I'd like - with them seemingly not having been there before and little information on the web site, right now there's no indication as to what the roles would be, where they'd be camping, etc etc. So they could be recruiting for almost any kind of role - I'd be shit at something like bar work and am far too lazy for litter picking. But that could well all change as more is revealed - for example if they announced they were taking over the wristbanding (from Festaff) where the work is easy and the shifts front-loaded (and the structure I mentioned above really isn't needed to a significant degree) then I'd be saying they're probably the best route in.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

1 hour ago, incident said:

While it's certainly possible - likely even - that some of their stewards got allocated less, they advertised it as the standard 3x8 and the one person I know who was working for them at Boomtown this year definitely did 3x8. It's not unknown that the same thing happens with Oxfam, I was working with them at Boomtown as well and spoke to a couple people who'd only been given 2 shifts, the other side of that coin being that they were perceived "bad" shifts (can't actually remember if it was 2 headliner shifts or 2 night shifts - something along those lines anyway)..

In general terms - Working at Festivals can be frustrating at times, it's often a constantly changing environment where nobody really knows what's going on or what the right answer is (some festivals more than others - and that's even after attempting to check the answer via event control). Oxfam is my first choice as from everything I've seen they tend to be the best at designing and keeping a structure, communicating what's needed to their staff, and protecting their staff from the inconsistencies of festival organisers. It doesn't sound like MyCause have that level of organisation in place at this point though that doesn't mean they can't get there.

Specifically with regards to Glastonbury, there's a bit more uncertainty than I'd like - with them seemingly not having been there before and little information on the web site, right now there's no indication as to what the roles would be, where they'd be camping, etc etc. So they could be recruiting for almost any kind of role - I'd be shit at something like bar work and am far too lazy for litter picking. But that could well all change as more is revealed - for example if they announced they were taking over the wristbanding (from Festaff) where the work is easy and the shifts front-loaded (and the structure I mentioned above really isn't needed to a significant degree) then I'd be saying they're probably the best route in.

Thank you for the education incident. That was a very revealing post, in terms of what volunteers have to face. Much appreciated. Maybe having worked in the construction / maintenance of buildings industry has somehow tainted my perspective. That said, it has 'enabled / forced up on me' a view point where I look at the weaknesses of systems of operation - or at least, that's my perspective. I could, of course, be wildly off the mark. Who knows? 

The above said, I wouldn't be exactly unhappy if Robin Edward Charles Wilkinson was able to indicate on here (or on his website) how many pennies in the pound received go to charity. I wouldn't mind all charities / CIC's displaying that figure, quite prominently, on their websites, if I'm really being honest. I used to hate / loathe the idea of 'bench marking'  but now am a kind of convert, because it's the only way to be able to have a reasonable degree of transparency. Look at the situations where charities haven't had adhered to Policies & procedure manuals - Haiti anybody?

[incident]

41 minutes ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

Thank you for the education incident. That was a very revealing post, in terms of what volunteers have to face. Much appreciated. Maybe having worked in the construction / maintenance of buildings industry has somehow tainted my perspective. That said, it has 'enabled / forced up on me' a view point where I look at the weaknesses of systems of operation - or at least, that's my perspective. I could, of course, be wildly off the mark. Who knows?

Yeah, I think (hope?) that the construction industry is a lot more solid in terms of design and implementation of good practice than festivals tend to be. Even a small festival can be such a complicated beast with so many moving parts and different organisations doing different things that there's frequently situations where sometimes the rulebook is rewritten or goes out of the window by necessity, or sometimes it's a result of someone making a decision without understanding / realising / caring what implications it'll have. Without meaning this to sound all "poor me" because that's not how I feel about it, it's generally the stewards who are the public face of the decision they have no influence in and may not make sense to the people on the ground - so it's good to have an organisation behind you that you can escalate to and will take up issues with event control.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

8 minutes ago, incident said:

Yeah, I think (hope?) that the construction industry is a lot more solid in terms of design and implementation of good practice than festivals tend to be. 

I'm afraid that during a 30 year experience in that sector I can tell you, without hesitation, that that is not the case. I've witnessed the most shoddy design, and implementation imaginable. I've not had to witness at first hand a 'Grenfell Tower' incident, but have witnessed several deaths (through fire) that could have been designed out of the buildings concerned - as well as being procedurally capable of happening.

If you add on the immense corruption that I have witnessed, then you'll probably be able to understand why I err towards the cynic.

[glasto-worker]

14 hours ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

 

Meant to say - I think I'm more on the fence on this one than not -hence the request for further information and thoughts.

I can see why 

sadly web sites can claim this that and the other.

after looking at the site - 

lets look at https://mycauseuk.com/event/bestival/

because ' they have some details ' from 2018 

We’re looking for volunteers to help run the festival’s eco bond – an initiative to Keep Bestival Tidy.

You will be required for a maximum of 20 hours across the weekend spread across three shifts.

You’ll be at the gates telling festival-goers about the eco bond initiative

20 hours spread across 3 shifts between Thursday and Monday. No overnight shifts

# We will donate £40 to your nominated charity #

That is where they are making their money

The Promoter would be paying them between £100 to £140 ' per volunteer 

My Cause UK ' makes more than the charity ' !!!!!!! 

-----------------

but it looks to me that ' they have never worked at Glastonbury '

so ' I reckon they are fishing ' 

what the hell am I on about ?

------------------

we have to look at Oxfam - they have a contract with GFL2019 to supply ' so many volunteers for various duties '

That contract is more than likely has already been signed .

I reckon that ' My Cause UK ' does not have a contract 

they are waiting to see ' how many volunteers they can get ' and then they will approach GFL2019 

Or ' they may be using that as bait to attract volunteers for other events.'

So is anyone reading this who has been a previous volunteer for  'My Cause UK ' at any event ?

There will be people who don't mind working for their ticket so your input may help them.

Edited October 9, 2018 by glasto-worker

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, glasto-worker said:

My Cause UK ' makes more than the charity ' !!!!!!!

i have a feeling that I once looked at their accounts at companies house, and the staff costs were hugely more than anything that went to good causes (I think all good causes got about £15k for a whole year).

[glasto-worker]

37 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

i have a feeling that I once looked at their accounts at companies house, and the staff costs were hugely more than anything that went to good causes (I think all good causes got about £15k for a whole year).

thanks for that - its a bloody joke as I used to raise £15,000 in the early 90's in a normal year just from my WBC Team and there was about 200 active teams .

sure everyone has overheads but I reckon this mob is playing on the goodwill of Volunteers.

people would make their good cause a lot more money if they directly Volunteer rather than using a middleman.

[clarkete]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

i have a feeling that I once looked at their accounts at companies house, and the staff costs were hugely more than anything that went to good causes (I think all good causes got about £15k for a whole year).

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10662964

[philipsteak]

I know Rob. Not well just to say hello or a quick chat through Oxfam stewarding. He volunteered for them for years, getting quite senior (dunno whether paid or still voluntary) leading shifts & briefings and what have you. Last couple of Glastonburys I've bumped into him working for one of the security companies, as far as I understood it essentially auditing the security teams at the gates.

There's a few of the senior volunteers like that, been doing it for years, built up contacts, and still do some festivals for Oxfam and then some paid work at other festivals.

Like I say, don't know him well but he's always seemed decent enough. Pretty sure he's gone above and beyond on occasion, helping out Oxfam in his own time when working for another firm. Couple of mates know him better and think well of him. Think they've volunteered through mycause too. 

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

1 hour ago, philipsteak said:

I know Rob. Not well just to say hello or a quick chat through Oxfam stewarding. He volunteered for them for years, getting quite senior (dunno whether paid or still voluntary) leading shifts & briefings and what have you. Last couple of Glastonburys I've bumped into him working for one of the security companies, as far as I understood it essentially auditing the security teams at the gates.

There's a few of the senior volunteers like that, been doing it for years, built up contacts, and still do some festivals for Oxfam and then some paid work at other festivals.

Like I say, don't know him well but he's always seemed decent enough. Pretty sure he's gone above and beyond on occasion, helping out Oxfam in his own time when working for another firm. Couple of mates know him better and think well of him. Think they've volunteered through mycause too. 

Thanks for that information philipsteak. 

 

[glasto-worker]

On 10/8/2018 at 6:50 PM, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

I'm not angry about it. I rarely get angry about anything - mostly because of laziness, as opposed to having achieved some zen like state.

The above said, it did make me wonder a little, and it was that concern which drove me to post in the first place. I just didn't want to see another Sundrive hire thing happen. Happy to hear that they appear to be bona fide.

so have you been in touch with them ?

it is strange that no one has posted ' that they have been a volunteer for them ' at any event.

if I was after a place I would be more keen if a Charity made more money than the middleman.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

5 hours ago, glasto-worker said:

so have you been in touch with them ?

it is strange that no one has posted ' that they have been a volunteer for them ' at any event.

if I was after a place I would be more keen if a Charity made more money than the middleman.

No, I haven't contacted them, but am not really looking to volunteer. I must admit that I'd probably be looking elsewhere if I was going to volunteer. 

[Northtim]

Could all be quite legitimate - CIC is a Community Interest Company which is sort of a close to a charity without actually being a charity.  Fairly strict rules on what use can be made of funds and not easy for a director to make a buck for himself.  Limited companys can transfer to CIC's which may have happened in this case hence quotes from people who have worked for the company previously, I can't tell.

Problem is no one has come forwards and said they have worked at Glastonbury through My Cause, so maybe they don't have a contract with Glastonbury in which case registering with them will come to nothing!  Do Festaff give to charity in any way?  Maybe My Cause are setting up the CIC to appear more charitable than Festaff and try and get that contract - who knows?   

[sparkythetortoise]

Having recycled for quite a few years now, I get quite touchy when people speak of a free ticket. ”It’s not free,” I say testily. “I simply pay for my ticket with my labour.”

It would be nice to think, in an ideal world, that all people working at the festival should be paid, with free time to explore the festival coming as an incidental extra as a result of being on site. However, as far as recycling goes, I take the view that if I was paid it would simply mean less money going to the charity Michael chooses to send money too, and I trust him to do the right thing. So by working for nothing I am effectively making a charitable donation of the wage I should have been paid, something I am happy to do. I dare say the same could be said of the smaller charities who offer up litter pickers and the stewards of Oxfam.

The trouble is that this has normalised the idea of working your ticket, which allows commercial companies to draft in “volunteers” purely as a means of lowering their bid for a contract. Not only do workers have to pay a deposit, but a proportion of that is retained as a bogus “admin fee”. So people end up paying to work for these companies, who nevertheless make a profit. No one forces people to apply, of course, but then no one forces workers to accept less than the minimum wage – that doesn’t make offering it right. The fact is that there will always be someone so desperate to attend a festival that they are prepared to accept what is a pretty rotten deal and unfettered it’s a trend that will surely only increase over the years.

It seems to me that only non-profit making charities should  use volunteers – if you are making money, then you should share it with your workers, and certainly not charge them for the privilege of earning you a profit.

Rant over

...in summary, that will be foe, then.

 

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

4 hours ago, sparkythetortoise said:

Having recycled for quite a few years now, I get quite touchy when people speak of a free ticket. ”It’s not free,” I say testily. “I simply pay for my ticket with my labour.”

It would be nice to think, in an ideal world, that all people working at the festival should be paid, with free time to explore the festival coming as an incidental extra as a result of being on site. However, as far as recycling goes, I take the view that if I was paid it would simply mean less money going to the charity Michael chooses to send money too, and I trust him to do the right thing. So by working for nothing I am effectively making a charitable donation of the wage I should have been paid, something I am happy to do. I dare say the same could be said of the smaller charities who offer up litter pickers and the stewards of Oxfam.

The trouble is that this has normalised the idea of working your ticket, which allows commercial companies to draft in “volunteers” purely as a means of lowering their bid for a contract. Not only do workers have to pay a deposit, but a proportion of that is retained as a bogus “admin fee”. So people end up paying to work for these companies, who nevertheless make a profit. No one forces people to apply, of course, but then no one forces workers to accept less than the minimum wage – that doesn’t make offering it right. The fact is that there will always be someone so desperate to attend a festival that they are prepared to accept what is a pretty rotten deal and unfettered it’s a trend that will surely only increase over the years.

It seems to me that only non-profit making charities should  use volunteers – if you are making money, then you should share it with your workers, and certainly not charge them for the privilege of earning you a profit.

Rant over

...in summary, that will be foe, then.

 

 

One has to be doubtful that in this instance two limited companies were set up prior to the CIC being set up / declared. It's not a huge leap of faith to perceive that the intention behind those limited companies was the idea to make profit. It follows on that the formation of a CIC may also be to make profit. Quid pro quo.

 

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

7 hours ago, Northtim said:

Could all be quite legitimate - CIC is a Community Interest Company which is sort of a close to a charity without actually being a charity.  Fairly strict rules on what use can be made of funds and not easy for a director to make a buck for himself.  Limited companys can transfer to CIC's which may have happened in this case hence quotes from people who have worked for the company previously, I can't tell.

Problem is no one has come forwards and said they have worked at Glastonbury through My Cause, so maybe they don't have a contract with Glastonbury in which case registering with them will come to nothing!  Do Festaff give to charity in any way?  Maybe My Cause are setting up the CIC to appear more charitable than Festaff and try and get that contract - who knows?   

You say fairly strict rules apply, but are those rules and their interpretation robust enough? Many, many charities, which face annual external and internal scrutiny have been proven to not have robust systems in place, leading to corruption etc. So, if this is the case with regulated charities, then what hope is there, given that they'll be even less resources aimed at scrutinising CIC's? 

I reckon that I could set up a CIC starting with an application tomorrow and get that CIC, and profit from it. I wouldn't, but bet that it's easy. One would have to lie, of course, but if your intention is for personal financial gain, then that's going to be par for the fraudulent course.