Latitude 2019

[km9]

2018 had Solange, Wolf Alice, Jessie Ware, Sleeper, La Femme, Juanita Stein... I'll stop now.

[retromoz]

48 minutes ago, km9 said:

I just can't really understand your outrage. Of the acts I know about (meaning that others may be female), Latitude has Lana del Ray, Chvrches, Neneh Cherry, Sigrid, Cat Power, Khruangbin, Anna Calvi, Mo, Freya Ridings, Aurora, Jenny Lewis, Nadine Shah, Julia Jacklin, Kero Kero Bonito, Let's eat grandma, The Japanese House, Georgia, Girlpool, Nilufa Yanya, Ider, Lazy Day, Lucia, Beabadoobee... any more?

To be honest, im not that outraged about the line up as a whole this year. However, as i have mentioned previously, the headliners are a 'tent pole' for the event as a whole. And its a bit shitty that, again, there isnt enough representation there. Its not a talent thing, so what else could it be? 

 

And this isnt just a Latitude thing either. Look at a lot of festivals. Its the same. I guess, maybe, im always a little more annoyed at Latitude because a) i love it (so i see its faults tenfold) and b) Festival Republic always say the right things, but do not inact on them. 

[suttttttt]

45 minutes ago, km9 said:

I just can't really understand your outrage. Of the acts I know about (meaning that others may be female), Latitude has Lana del Ray, Chvrches, Neneh Cherry, Sigrid, Cat Power, Khruangbin, Anna Calvi, Mo, Freya Ridings, Aurora, Jenny Lewis, Nadine Shah, Julia Jacklin, Kero Kero Bonito, Let's eat grandma, The Japanese House, Georgia, Girlpool, Nilufa Yanya, Ider, Lazy Day, Lucia, Beabadoobee... any more?

+ Ray BLK, The Big Moon, A Place to Bury Strangers. Must admit I agree, when you compare Latitude to other 2019 festival line ups they are more than flying the flag for female artists in my opinion. 

 

I feel that this discussion would be better suited in a different festival thread that has a more male dominated line up.

[swelsbyuk]

Out of interest, if there was a company whose chief executive was male and four of its five directors was male, but lots of the general staff on minimum wage were female, would you say that there was an appropriate gender balance? 

[suttttttt]

2 minutes ago, swelsbyuk said:

Out of interest, if there was a company whose chief executive was male and four of its five directors was male, but lots of the general staff on minimum wage were female, would you say that there was an appropriate gender balance? 

I didn't at any point say there was an appropriate balance this year, just that compared to other festival line ups Latitude seem to be making moves in the right direction. Lots of women on the bill and whilst they may not be represented in the headliners, it certainly looks like many of them will have high slots/subs on the major stages.

[Funktownbro]

Just out of interest, because nobody has said so far, those who are asking for female headliners, who would you have booked ?

[Smeble]

41 minutes ago, Funktownbro said:

Just out of interest, because nobody has said so far, those who are asking for female headliners, who would you have booked ?

It doesn’t matter who they are, only matters what gender they are, in the minds of some.

 

[Smeble]

1 hour ago, swelsbyuk said:

Out of interest, if there was a company whose chief executive was male and four of its five directors was male, but lots of the general staff on minimum wage were female, would you say that there was an appropriate gender balance? 

What has their gender got to do with anything? Why does there need to be an ‘appropriate gender balance’ as long as the best person for the job, gets the job and there are no barriers to anyone getting any job,  then gender, sexuality, race is an utter irrelevance .

[retromoz]

1 hour ago, Smeble said:

What has their gender got to do with anything? Why does there need to be an ‘appropriate gender balance’ as long as the best person for the job, gets the job and there are no barriers to anyone getting any job,  then gender, sexuality, race is an utter irrelevance .

Its an 'utter irrelevance' to us white men. But to women or homosexuals or those who arnt honky's, it is the complete opposite. 

[BlueDaze]

8 hours ago, km9 said:

2018 had Solange, Wolf Alice, Jessie Ware, Sleeper, La Femme, Juanita Stein... I'll stop now.

you missed the best of the lot....!

 

[DJL]

22 hours ago, Smeble said:

Referring back to my original post, male acts sell vastly more records than female acts, therefore it’s entirely reasonable for festivals to book more male acts and for more headliners to be male. You could only expect a 50/50 split if record sales were equal and there are the same number of female acts as male acts.

 

...but why do male acts sell vastly more and why are there more male acts than female acts? Do you believe men are just more talented/interested in a career in music?

You don't think there is anything in the music industry, or in wider society, that advantages male or females? You don't think that festivals (Glastonbury particularly) influence music sales as well as the other way around?

I'm not saying that, as a music and festival fan, I want this Summer's line-ups to suddenly be a 50-50 gender split regardless of the artist's standing, sales or fit with the rest of the line-up etc. but I do think festivals have an opportunity to showcase talent female performers in high profile positions where possible and I welcome those to do. As other have said I think Latitude does this better than most.

[km9]

15 hours ago, retromoz said:

Its an 'utter irrelevance' to us white men. But to women or homosexuals or those who arnt honky's, it is the complete opposite. 

Why is it OK to refer to white men as honkys? And why are you getting outraged for women and homosexuals? Were Christine and the Queens outraged a few years ago? Was Solange outraged last year? Will Lana Del Ray be outraged when she closes the Obelisk this year?

[retromoz]

4 hours ago, km9 said:

Why is it OK to refer to white men as honkys? And why are you getting outraged for women and homosexuals? Were Christine and the Queens outraged a few years ago? Was Solange outraged last year? Will Lana Del Ray be outraged when she closes the Obelisk this year?

Why WOULDN'T I be outraged for any member of society not getting an opportunity to play an event purely because of their skin colour/ethnicity/sex etc? The most pertinent question should be why isnt EVERYONE outraged? OR, at the VERY least, concerned?!?

And the fact you have to list the exceptions to the general rule proves my point, doesnt it?

[km9]

Which sector of society is being barred from playing? Your comment about me listing exceptions doesn't really stand up when you consider that I posted this...

On 3/12/2019 at 9:32 AM, km9 said:

I just can't really understand your outrage. Of the acts I know about (meaning that others may be female), Latitude has Lana del Ray, Chvrches, Neneh Cherry, Sigrid, Cat Power, Khruangbin, Anna Calvi, Mo, Freya Ridings, Aurora, Jenny Lewis, Nadine Shah, Julia Jacklin, Kero Kero Bonito, Let's eat grandma, The Japanese House, Georgia, Girlpool, Nilufa Yanya, Ider, Lazy Day, Lucia, Beabadoobee... any more?

I have no idea how many of these are homosexual, but I very much doubt that bookers are sitting in their offices saying "I'm not booking X because he/she is gay".

And that doesn't answer the question asking why you consider it OK to refer to white men as honkys.

Edited March 13, 2019 by km9

[retromoz]

1 minute ago, km9 said:

I have no idea how many of these are homosexual, but I very much doubt that bookers are sitting in their offices saying "I'm not booking X because he/she is gay"

Not consciously, no. And the same with women. But......that is my point. Its been my point all this time! There is undeniable (sometimes unconscious) bias against those who arnt male and white! To deny this is sticking your heads in the clouds. And.....to be honest, looking at the world currently, I can kinda see the appeal of staying there.....

Admittedly, the line up AS A WHOLE is very gender balanced which is good. HOWEVER.....the headliners are not. And, apart from 2009 (and 2014, although that was only coz Two Door Cinema Club pulled out), it hasnt been. This isnt a purely Latitude problem. But, with Festival Republic's 'talk', its maybe all the more disappointing, in my view.

But this conversation is not going anywhere. So........yeah.

Nadine Shah is great, aint she? I hope you all see her.

[Smeble]

On 3/12/2019 at 4:06 PM, retromoz said:

Its an 'utter irrelevance' to us white men. But to women or homosexuals or those who arnt honky's, it is the complete opposite. 

Thats the whole point, it should be an utter irrelevance to them as well, that’s equality. 

 

[Smeble]

3 hours ago, retromoz said:

Not consciously, no. And the same with women. But......that is my point. Its been my point all this time! There is undeniable (sometimes unconscious) bias against those who arnt male and white! To deny this is sticking your heads in the clouds. And.....to be honest, looking at the world currently, I can kinda see the appeal of staying there.....

Admittedly, the line up AS A WHOLE is very gender balanced which is good. HOWEVER.....the headliners are not. And, apart from 2009 (and 2014, although that was only coz Two Door Cinema Club pulled out), it hasnt been. This isnt a purely Latitude problem. But, with Festival Republic's 'talk', its maybe all the more disappointing, in my view.

But this conversation is not going anywhere. So........yeah.

Nadine Shah is great, aint she? I hope you all see her.

Again why this obsession with gender balance? Why does anything need to be gender balanced? And why is it ‘good’ if it is. I don’t buy or listen to music based on what sex the artist is, I listen to what I like and consider to be good, gender isn’t even a consideration. 

[retromoz]

1 minute ago, Smeble said:

Thats the whole point, it should be an utter irrelevance to them as well, that’s equality. 

 

Yes, in theory, this is correct! Obviously! But it simply does not happen! So, right now, in 2019, there is prejudice! Do you not see that? 

[Smeble]

5 hours ago, retromoz said:

Why WOULDN'T I be outraged for any member of society not getting an opportunity to play an event purely because of their skin colour/ethnicity/sex etc? The most pertinent question should be why isnt EVERYONE outraged? OR, at the VERY least, concerned?!?

And the fact you have to list the exceptions to the general rule proves my point, doesnt it?

Why are you assuming they aren’t getting the opportunity because of their gender or skin colour?

[retromoz]

Just now, Smeble said:

Again why this obsession with gender balance? Why does anything need to be gender balanced? And why is it ‘good’ if it is. I don’t buy or listen to music based on what sex the artist is, I listen to what I like and consider to be good, gender isn’t even a consideration. 

And that is fine! Well done. But others arnt as enlightened as you. 

[Smeble]

1 minute ago, retromoz said:

Yes, in theory, this is correct! Obviously! But it simply does not happen! So, right now, in 2019, there is prejudice! Do you not see that? 

Yes but you don’t fight prejudice with more prejudice, promoting someone simply because they tick a box solves nothing.

[retromoz]

3 minutes ago, Smeble said:

Yes but you don’t fight prejudice with more prejudice, promoting someone simply because they tick a box solves nothing.

Its a blunt tool. But it IS something. 

 

Maybe read other things which are researched and explained properly.... 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/may/11/music-festivals-agender-equality-wireless-green-man-slam-dunk-male-lineups

 

Or

 

https://pitchfork.com/features/festival-report/tracking-the-gender-balance-of-this-years-music-festival-lineups/

 

Or

 

https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/music/gender-equality-women-festival-line-ups-rebalance-keychange/

 

Or....you know.....assume there is no problem. I cant make you look at the evidence. I cant seem to convince you there has been a problem. But, just because you personally don't think about someone's gender when you listen to stuff, others do. And that is a problem. X

[gregory]

Take note of George Ezra, Snow Patrol, Sigrid etc's position on the Glastonbury poster... 

[suttttttt]

2 hours ago, gregory said:

Take note of George Ezra, Snow Patrol, Sigrid etc's position on the Glastonbury poster... 

And The Killers on top line. Hoping that money they saved this year on their headliners has gone on some special, head turning bookings. But probably not.

[rseamer]

RE: The discussion above, Latitude's main booker is I believe a woman - it would be really interesting to hear her take on this subject.

Also the most important thing moving forward to gain equality (and surely most people would agree that equality is important?) is that in terms of gender, at a grass roots level women are given equal opportunity to perform music as men and are given equal opportunity for their careers to grow - so that in the future the pool of potential available headliners is split 50/50. Emily Eavis at Glastonbury has talked about this and has said that right now the situation is that there are more potential male headliners than female - but that can change given time. 

 

Edited March 17, 2019 by rseamer