Prepping for sales day, similar festival/event sold on seetickets?

[parsonjack]

2 hours ago, Havors said:

Problem with ticket day is.... when all you get is a white page how the hell do you know where you are at all?

The only advice for this is to close and then reopen all tabs you may have open on any one browser.  It's not perfect, as I'm sure I'll be told, but if as suspected it is a symptom of a corrupt or hanging session then doing this may clear it down. 

Other theories gratefully welcomed. 

[stuartbert two hats]

4 hours ago, parsonjack said:

Did a bit more analysis on it last night...

As already known the 'queue' page fires after more than 60 x F5's in a minute ie a refresh rate of >1s.  If you wait a couple of seconds and then resume it re-queries the URL rather than reloading the 'queue' page, so with current setup the Registration page gets displayed.  This is a good thing as it suggests your IP does not get blocked for any pre-determined time period.

If however you continue with your >1s refresh rate the 'queue' page stays with you, effectively blocking you.  If you wait and resume as above the Registration page shows once more....but if you then exceed the 1s rate within a rolling 60 seconds at any further point the 'queue' page fires again.

In essence therefore you will get the 'queue' page any time you exceed the 1s refresh rate within a 60 second period.  The paradox here is that in the sale you won't know whether you have the 'queue' page due to genuinely unavailable sessions, or because you have exceeded the 1s limit.

The advice...?  Stay within the limit to avoid the 'fake' queue page I suppose.....?

The next test is to get yourself "banned" on one browser, then see if it keeps you out on another browser.  Or exceed the 60 req/min threshold over two browsers (E.g 35 reg/min per browser) and see if that kicks you to the queue page.

This is fascinating stuff, and as far as I can tell totally new information?

[parsonjack]

16 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

The next test is to get yourself "banned" on one browser, then see if it keeps you out on another browser.  Or exceed the 60 req/min threshold over two browsers (E.g 35 reg/min per browser) and see if that kicks you to the queue page.

This is fascinating stuff, and as far as I can tell totally new information?

Hmm.  It'll be tricky to swap between browsers and maintain the 1s rate but if the second browser locks out in less than 60 seconds that'll prove its IP based and not per browser. 

It was in place for the last sale in 2016....I brought it up in a thread then somewhere. 

[Havors]

16 hours ago, parsonjack said:

Hmm.  It'll be tricky to swap between browsers and maintain the 1s rate but if the second browser locks out in less than 60 seconds that'll prove its IP based and not per browser. 

It was in place for the last sale in 2016....I brought it up in a thread then somewhere. 

Does an auto refresh plug in need windows to be focused on that browser? If not then it would be easy to test, if you could have one auto refresh and manual refresh the other... ?  Or two laptops/computers on the same IP hit F5 on both... etc...

[EMorgz92]

Any news on tests for this? Interested to know as I got tickets for two events through Seetickets this morning (Blossoms & WHP) so presume it was a fairly high traffic day!

[parsonjack]

On 7/26/2018 at 5:49 PM, stuartbert two hats said:

The next test is to get yourself "banned" on one browser, then see if it keeps you out on another browser.  Or exceed the 60 req/min threshold over two browsers (E.g 35 reg/min per browser) and see if that kicks you to the queue page.

This is fascinating stuff, and as far as I can tell totally new information?

Ok.....tested this out.  Moving to another tab once 'banned' in one or moving to another browser session, or a different browser type all result in a 'ban' within a few seconds of resuming the  >1s rate.

Pretty much proves, as suspected, that it's IP based per device.

I've also checked that 2 devices on the same NAT IP address are treated as separate sources ie. getting the ban on one device does not affect other devices using the same IP, as will be the case for groups of people using the same wifi with different internal IP's but the same externally facing IP.

So as before I guess...whatever combination of browsers and tabs you use on a single device you'll get blocked in this way every time your F5 rate exceeds 1s.

 

[stuartbert two hats]

50 minutes ago, parsonjack said:

Ok.....tested this out.  Moving to another tab once 'banned' in one or moving to another browser session, or a different browser type all result in a 'ban' within a few seconds of resuming the  >1s rate.

Pretty much proves, as suspected, that it's IP based per device.

I've also checked that 2 devices on the same NAT IP address are treated as separate sources ie. getting the ban on one device does not affect other devices using the same IP, as will be the case for groups of people using the same wifi with different internal IP's but the same externally facing IP.

So as before I guess...whatever combination of browsers and tabs you use on a single device you'll get blocked in this way every time your F5 rate exceeds 1s.

 

Excellent work. I'm definitely renting some VMs in the cloud.

[morph100]

1 hour ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Excellent work. I'm definitely renting some VMs in the cloud.

How many can you handle? I’m going for 6 ? 

[GregsyA]

I am already thinking about ticket day most days, trying to figure out how I can maximise my chances- thanks for this thread which has been very helpful.  

Would it be correct to summarise the findings so far as follows?

 - refreshing at rate of over 60 times/s on one device, even in different browsers, leads to the software blocking you

 - if you use different devices, but all on the same internet connection, this won't block you even if combined refresh rate is over 60 times/s

 - but maximise your chances by using as many different connections as possible.

And one final question from a non-tech - how would you go about renting a VM in the cloud, and what are the benefits of doing that relative to just using multiple device / connection combinations via a collection of PCs and mobile devices.

Thanks so much!

 

[parsonjack]

1 hour ago, GregsyA said:

I am already thinking about ticket day most days, trying to figure out how I can maximise my chances- thanks for this thread which has been very helpful.  

Would it be correct to summarise the findings so far as follows?

 - refreshing at rate of over 60 times/s on one device, even in different browsers, leads to the software blocking you

 - if you use different devices, but all on the same internet connection, this won't block you even if combined refresh rate is over 60 times/s

 - but maximise your chances by using as many different connections as possible.

And one final question from a non-tech - how would you go about renting a VM in the cloud, and what are the benefits of doing that relative to just using multiple device / connection combinations via a collection of PCs and mobile devices.

Thanks so much!

 

Your summary is pretty much spot on, apart from one significant bit.....the refresh rate to stay within is 60/minute...even my F5 finger would struggle with 60/second ?

...and note that once 'blocked' your refresh rate simply needs to drop below 1/s to avoid further blocks.

 

[MilkyJoe]

17 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Excellent work. I'm definitely renting some VMs in the cloud.

What does this even mean??

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

13 minutes ago, MilkyJoe said:

What does this even mean??

Don't ask me. I'm with these two;

[GregsyA]

42 minutes ago, parsonjack said:

Your summary is pretty much spot on, apart from one significant bit.....the refresh rate to stay within is 60/minute...even my F5 finger would struggle with 60/second ?

...and note that once 'blocked' your refresh rate simply needs to drop below 1/s to avoid further blocks.

 

Yes - per minute, of course!

Still keen to understand the value of a VM in the cloud, if anyone has the patience to explain.

[parsonjack]

37 minutes ago, MilkyJoe said:

What does this even mean??

VM = Virtual Machine. It's essentially a PC that someone else manages in a datacentre somewhere on the internet that you use remotely.  It's not a physical machine either....special operating systems allow multiple 'virtual' machines to be created and run on a single powerful physical server.  When you log on however you get a desktop that looks and feels like it's on the physical machine you are sitting in front of at home.

Instead of having your kitchen table covered with a bunch of physical laptops, PC's and tablets for ticket day you can pay for a bunch of VM's and log onto them all from one device at home.  They will all have separate IP addresses so will all be seen by Seetickets as different devices and won't be hindered by all using the same wifi bandwidth that they would be if all at home.

Essentially therefore you could rent 50? 100? 500? of these VM's for 24 hours and set up each one to autorefresh the ticket page for you...and you just sit back and wait.

I'll leave it to the others to explain how they do this......

[stuartbert two hats]

7 minutes ago, parsonjack said:

VM = Virtual Machine. It's essentially a PC that someone else manages in a datacentre somewhere on the internet that you use remotely.  It's not a physical machine either....special operating systems allow multiple 'virtual' machines to be created and run on a single powerful physical server.  When you log on however you get a desktop that looks and feels like it's on the physical machine you are sitting in front of at home.

Instead of having your kitchen table covered with a bunch of physical laptops, PC's and tablets for ticket day you can pay for a bunch of VM's and log onto them all from one device at home.  They will all have separate IP addresses so will all be seen by Seetickets as different devices and won't be hindered by all using the same wifi bandwidth that they would be if all at home.

Essentially therefore you could rent 50? 100? 500? of these VM's for 24 hours and set up each one to autorefresh the ticket page for you...and you just sit back and wait.

I'll leave it to the others to explain how they do this......

Would they all have different IPs though?

Edited July 28, 2018 by stuartbert two hats

[parsonjack]

1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Would they all have different IPs though?

Good point and actually I guess not.  If they were all rented from same provider I'd guess they would all have same external Internet facing IP as a NAT address much like devices on your home wifi.....and unique internal private IP's within the hosting environment.  From the tests I did with multiple devices on my wifi it looks like See's blocking method is set up to inspect packets for unique source address so that it doesn't unfairly block everyone on the same NAT IP, so multiple VM's should be similarly safe.

[stuartbert two hats]

23 minutes ago, parsonjack said:

Good point and actually I guess not.  If they were all rented from same provider I'd guess they would all have same external Internet facing IP as a NAT address much like devices on your home wifi.....and unique internal private IP's within the hosting environment.  From the tests I did with multiple devices on my wifi it looks like See's blocking method is set up to inspect packets for unique source address so that it doesn't unfairly block everyone on the same NAT IP, so multiple VM's should be similarly safe.

There's something going on with the external IPs, as whenever I get through to the ticket page, all my devices on WiFi generally get through at once.

[evilduck]

I use my work browserstack account and they claim to use a whole range of different IP addresses.

[stuartbert two hats]

3 hours ago, evilduck said:

I use my work browserstack account and they claim to use a whole range of different IP addresses.

But you can't buy tickets with Browserstack can you? Or have I missed the point?

[Quark]

Fuck off with your Browserstack talk. I'm trying to sort a deal out with them at work at the moment, like pulling teeth

Edited July 29, 2018 by Quark

[Evilmonkeydan]

Wow, posted this the other day at work and have been mental busy since TBH. Finally, had chance to catch up. Happy I've sparked some positive discussion.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Evilmonkeydan

[Havors]

Does anything think there is any truth in that old wives tale that IP's from foreign countries or certain areas get priority in the queue system or even have their own allocation?? 

[scatteredscreens]

26 minutes ago, Havors said:

Does anything think there is any truth in that old wives tale that IP's from foreign countries or certain areas get priority in the queue system or even have their own allocation?? 

Nah they've said this isn't the case and I'm sure it wouldn't be in an age of VPNs.

[kalifire]

44 minutes ago, Havors said:

Does anything think there is any truth in that old wives tale that IP's from foreign countries or certain areas get priority in the queue system or even have their own allocation?? 

I've tried from overseas for the last couple of years and it's had no discernable effect.

Great tip on the 60 refreshes per minute news. I also tend to refresh immediately I see I'm on the hold screen again but the page rarely loads instantly so I'd say I'm refreshing somewhere between 45 and 50 times a minute. I only have one tab open on one browser and just go hell for leather on that (with another broswer loaded up in the background in case anything happens to the first one).

If we're talking speed tips, I think most people who're determined will refresh at much the same rate, so it's what happens when you're through that makes the difference. I have the first piece of information already copied to clipboard and the rest of the stuff (reg numbers, postcodes, card details) all typed out already in a word document. I split my screen roughly into thirds, with one word document on each side of the main window, so no scrolling down is necessary to grab the information I need, and it can spaced out enough to ensure I don't accidentally copy information I don't need yet.

Then, it's in the lap of the ticket gods. Obviously the more people you have trying for you, the better. Ideally on different ip's.

[Havors]

3 minutes ago, kalifire said:

I've tried from overseas for the last couple of years and it's had no discernable effect.

Great tip on the 60 refreshes per minute news. I also tend to refresh immediately I see I'm on the hold screen again but the page rarely loads instantly so I'd say I'm refreshing somewhere between 45 and 50 times a minute. I only have one tab open on one browser and just go hell for leather on that (with another broswer loaded up in the background in case anything happens to the first one).

If we're talking speed tips, I think most people who're determined will refresh at much the same rate, so it's what happens when you're through that makes the difference. I have the first piece of information already copied to clipboard and the rest of the stuff (reg numbers, postcodes, card details) all typed out already in a word document. I split my screen roughly into thirds, with one word document on each side of the main window, so no scrolling down is necessary to grab the information I need, and it can spaced out enough to ensure I don't accidentally copy information I don't need yet.

Then, it's in the lap of the ticket gods. Obviously the more people you have trying for you, the better. Ideally on different ip's.

As I have never ever had anything other than a white page... Something I would like to know (if you are aware). When you are refreshing are you getting the page with the "We are currently processing the maximum possible number of deposits per second." info on? And when/if you get through does the URL then change and you get through to a purchase screen?? 

My biggest concern is refreshing continuously and then getting "through" but keep refreshing and lose the page?