Arenas end agreements with StubHub

[brettredmayne]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/stubhub-axed-owners-o2-wembley-12799259

Could be interesting if other arenas follow 

[Tyonks]

5 hours ago, brettredmayne said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/stubhub-axed-owners-o2-wembley-12799259

Could be interesting if other arenas follow 

Excellent news, although I'm not so sure on the idea of a ticket-less system, I love collecting the tickets from gigs/football matches. 

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Couldn't touts get around this by demanding the cost of the ticket + 10% on one transaction, then whatever they also ask for on another transaction in order for someone to fully purchase the ticket? Presumably this could be done on the normal or dark web? I really have no idea, and am just thinking aloud. I don't have much of a clue about touting in detail.

[Mash011]

4 minutes ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

Couldn't touts get around this by demanding the cost of the ticket + 10% on one transaction, then whatever they also ask for on another transaction in order for someone to fully purchase the ticket? Presumably this could be done on the normal or dark web? I really have no idea, and am just thinking aloud. I don't have much of a clue about touting in detail.

Yep, the reality is that some touts are gonna find a way to do it. But with the right kind of systems it's nice to think that touting can be got rid of as a widespread problem. Much like how the advent of music streaming marked the end of music piracy as a serious concern. But just as that had led to a different kind of exploitation for artists there are problems here - the ticket sellers seeking to bring resale under their own control seems to me as much an attempt to skim the fee money for themselves as it is a serious response to that problem.

To extend that allegory a little further, it's like DRM software - it can help to combat the problem, sure, but you're also trading off some of the rights you previously had as a consumer. Personally I'm extremely dubious of anything that consolidates more power for the ticket companies, whose price gouging and excessive fees are just as much a problem as the touts.

[eFestivals]

12 hours ago, brettredmayne said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/stubhub-axed-owners-o2-wembley-12799259

Could be interesting if other arenas follow 

I love their high morals. "We're now against what we were profiting from, because if we're not it risks our profits".

 

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

7 hours ago, Mash011 said:

Yep, the reality is that some touts are gonna find a way to do it. But with the right kind of systems it's nice to think that touting can be got rid of as a widespread problem. Much like how the advent of music streaming marked the end of music piracy as a serious concern. But just as that had led to a different kind of exploitation for artists there are problems here - the ticket sellers seeking to bring resale under their own control seems to me as much an attempt to skim the fee money for themselves as it is a serious response to that problem.

To extend that allegory a little further, it's like DRM software - it can help to combat the problem, sure, but you're also trading off some of the rights you previously had as a consumer. Personally I'm extremely dubious of anything that consolidates more power for the ticket companies, whose price gouging and excessive fees are just as much a problem as the touts.

Hello Mash011,

Thank you for taking the time to respond, and explain the situation to me further. As I don't go to gigs etc, I was a little clueless in this area. I only go to a few festivals (which I appear to pull out of at the last minute nowadays!) and buy the tickets direct from the festival website.

[Smeble]

6 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I love their high morals. "We're now against what we were profiting from, because if we're not it risks our profits".

 

Whilst I agree with you, they are a big company whose reason for existing is to make money, of course they will do what they  see as best for profits, in fact they are duty bound to do so.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Smeble said:

they are a big company whose reason for existing is to make money to fund anti-LGBTQ, anti-union and anti-immigration campaign groups

filled it out a bit more for you.

[stuartbert two hats]

1 hour ago, Smeble said:

Whilst I agree with you, they are a big company whose reason for existing is to make money, of course they will do what they  see as best for profits, in fact they are duty bound to do so.

Which is part of the problem with capitalism. To be precise though, it's only publicly held companies that are generally duty bound to maximise profits, a private company is duty bound to do whatever its owners want within the confines of the law.  That's usually maximising profit, of course, but doesn't have to be. 

Take GFL for instance, they're free to give most of their operating profits to charity every year.  As much as that gesture helps with sales, tax and those low, low costs for performers, it's still not the best way for the company to actually make money.  If they had shareholders, then the pressures on the festival to operate differently would be substantial.

 

BTW, I'm sure this contains tons of inaccuracies and fallacies.  Please pile in, those who are inclined to do so (you know who you are  )

[zero000]

Ticketmaster are shutting down Getmein and seatwave: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/aug/13/ticketmaster-shut-seatwave-getmein-resale-secondary-ticketing

"Closing down our secondary sites and creating a ticket exchange on Ticketmaster has always been our long-term plan. We’re excited to launch our redesigned website, which will make buying and selling tickets fast and simple, with all tickets in the same place."

A positive step, even if it was only the threat of new legislation which kicked their arses into gear, not that utterly disingenuous statement.

Edited August 13, 2018 by zero000

[Hugh Jass]

3 minutes ago, zero000 said:

Ticketmaster are shutting down Getmein and seatwave: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/aug/13/ticketmaster-shut-seatwave-getmein-resale-secondary-ticketing

"Closing down our secondary sites and creating a ticket exchange on Ticketmaster has always been our long-term plan. We’re excited to launch our redesigned website, which will make buying and selling tickets fast and simple, with all tickets in the same place."

A positive step, even if it was only the threat of new legislation which kicked their arses into gear, not that utterly disingenuous statement.

Good news, anything that helps keep tickets out of the hands of touts has to be considered good, but as you say this was not done for any altruistic reason, they can see the writing is on the wall and are trying to get our before it costs them too much, they're still c**ts.

Of course the biggest gang of c**ts out there Viagogo will keep going until the bitter end. The worry is that with all the other platforms shutting down/being restricted they'll just hoover everything up.

[zero000]

Indeed. I wonder if all we're going to see is a shift in the market with an increased emphasis on "premium" tickets to make up in the shortfall in touting. It's already been used by a few artists. The Planet money podcast had an interesting episode on this:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/06/25/195641030/episode-468-kid-rock-vs-the-scalpers?t=1534156324264

Kid Rock flogs cheap tickets for $20 so his fans have access to the shows , but has a rows of premium tickets at the front at $100+ which alter in price depending on market demand. He also tries to play as many shows as possible to increase the supply of his tickets and to keep prices down. I wonder if this model will be rolled out more widely, now the touting money has been taken away.

[Hugh Jass]

9 minutes ago, zero000 said:

Indeed. I wonder if all we're going to see is a shift in the market with an increased emphasis on "premium" tickets to make up in the shortfall in touting. It's already been used by a few artists. The Planet money podcast had an interesting episode on this:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/06/25/195641030/episode-468-kid-rock-vs-the-scalpers?t=1534156324264

Kid Rock flogs cheap tickets for $20 so his fans have access to the shows , but has a rows of premium tickets at the front at $100+ which alter in price depending on market demand. He also tries to play as many shows as possible to increase the supply of his tickets and to keep prices down. I wonder if this model will be rolled out more widely, now the touting money has been taken away.

At present, and I could be wrong, but touting doesn’t really affect the artists. If a band sells 20k tickets at the O2 it makes no difference to them financially what happens to the tickets afterwards. So I don’t see things changing much at all.

[dentalplan]

25 minutes ago, zero000 said:

Indeed. I wonder if all we're going to see is a shift in the market with an increased emphasis on "premium" tickets to make up in the shortfall in touting. It's already been used by a few artists. The Planet money podcast had an interesting episode on this:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/06/25/195641030/episode-468-kid-rock-vs-the-scalpers?t=1534156324264

Kid Rock flogs cheap tickets for $20 so his fans have access to the shows , but has a rows of premium tickets at the front at $100+ which alter in price depending on market demand. He also tries to play as many shows as possible to increase the supply of his tickets and to keep prices down. I wonder if this model will be rolled out more widely, now the touting money has been taken away.

Yes,  Ticketmaster are already doing 'dynamic pricing' with Ticketmaster Platinum, and their secondary storefronts have been dodos since they were allowed by the courts to do so and sell those inflated tickets next to the general sale tickets. They've only cut out other touts by closing Get Me In and Seatwave. 

Edited August 13, 2018 by dentalplan

[parsonjack]

I hope this doesn't kill Twickets if people suddenly think Ticketmaster are the good guys now.....

[HeyPorter]

Didn’t know which thread to throw this in, £5 for £10 ticketmaster gift card on groupon right now. Worth having on the back burner. 

[Johndenis]

I don't really understand this story.  If you want tickets for a sold out gig at the o2, did the o2 formerly refer you to Stubhub?  

Or is the o2 saying tickets resold on Stubhub will no longer be valid?  If so, how can they trace that?

Or is Stubhub ceasing to exist?

[evilduck]

On 8/18/2018 at 2:52 PM, Johndenis said:

I don't really understand this story.  If you want tickets for a sold out gig at the o2, did the o2 formerly refer you to Stubhub?  

Or is the o2 saying tickets resold on Stubhub will no longer be valid?  If so, how can they trace that?

Or is Stubhub ceasing to exist?

O2 Arenas website used to have adverts everywhere for stubhub, and they listed them as their 'official reseller'. I think they even had booths at the venue where you could collect your stubhub tickets. They have now axed that partnership. Stubhub is owned by eBay, its only currently the ticketmaster reseller sites getmein and seatwave that are being closed. 

[brettredmayne]

With this news I wouldn't be shocked to see stub hub go next 

[henry bear]

I’m not entirely convinced that, should the secondary ticket market be driven out (which I can’t see anyway), that this would result in more tickets available at affordable prices.

I remember recently a spokesperson for one artist (can’t remember who) bemoaning the fact that they weren’t benefiting from the profits of the secondary market, which seemed to me a particularly mercenary attitude. 

We’re now at a stage whereby the likes of U2 are charging £200+ for a seat in the top tier of the O2 and can see this US style ticket structure being the norm, almost cutting out the secondary market/touts as the tickets are so bloody expensive in the first place.

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, henry bear said:

I’m not entirely convinced that, should the secondary ticket market be driven out (which I can’t see anyway), that this would result in more tickets available at affordable prices.

I remember recently a spokesperson for one artist (can’t remember who) bemoaning the fact that they weren’t benefiting from the profits of the secondary market, which seemed to me a particularly mercenary attitude. 

We’re now at a stage whereby the likes of U2 are charging £200+ for a seat in the top tier of the O2 and can see this US style ticket structure being the norm, almost cutting out the secondary market/touts as the tickets are so bloody expensive in the first place.

Bands were in on the tickets going to the likes of stubhub, that was pretty clear from various TV investigations.

So I'm quite happy with everything being upfront and honest about prices, rather than the deception that existed before.

Getting to see a band isn't a human right. They can charge what they like for their 'product'. And if you don't like it, it's 100% clear where your dislike should be directed - at that band.

That's how it should be. If you can't afford to see your musical heroes, why are they your musical heroes?

[henry bear]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

Bands were in on the tickets going to the likes of stubhub, that was pretty clear from various TV investigations.

So I'm quite happy with everything being upfront and honest about prices, rather than the deception that existed before.

Getting to see a band isn't a human right. They can charge what they like for their 'product'. And if you don't like it, it's 100% clear where your dislike should be directed - at that band.

That's how it should be. If you can't afford to see your musical heroes, why are they your musical heroes?

I don't disagree with what you're saying. Ultimately it's market forces and all that, but I do think it sad though that a band of U2's stature can't sell out the O2 because of their prices. No heroes of mine though.

[Johndenis]

Thanks for the explanation @evilduck.  i thought the Rolling Stones tried to adjust their prices to squeeze out touts, but ended up with 3/4 full stadiums in the US?  It seems that, for some acts at least, the touts actually create artificial scarcity and drive up demand.  Complicated.

[bucko]

U2 have the balls to charge fans £50 a tour for the right to buy pre-sale tickets too.

On 8/20/2018 at 5:20 PM, henry bear said:

We’re now at a stage whereby the likes of U2 are charging £200+ for a seat in the top tier of the O2 and can see this US style ticket structure being the norm, almost cutting out the secondary market/touts as the tickets are so bloody expensive in the first place.

 

[Mash011]

On 8/20/2018 at 5:37 PM, eFestivals said:

Bands were in on the tickets going to the likes of stubhub, that was pretty clear from various TV investigations.

So I'm quite happy with everything being upfront and honest about prices, rather than the deception that existed before.

Getting to see a band isn't a human right. They can charge what they like for their 'product'. And if you don't like it, it's 100% clear where your dislike should be directed - at that band.

That's how it should be. If you can't afford to see your musical heroes, why are they your musical heroes?

Nah come on do you really think bands are personally setting the prices for every venue they tour to. These things are, with few exceptions, decided by massive corporations tryna create a market that works to their advantage. 'Blame the band' is such a lazy response to that.