Football 18/19

[zahidf]

7 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

It's a sad indictment of journalism that I didn't expect them to either. 

Some have but just the usual lefty people. Klopp has come out in support to sterling as well.

[thetime]

10 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I don't disagree with that either. Considering how the tribal nature formed as being towns and cities uniting around their local team, it's amazing how much of that nature has been retained even with the increasing globalisation in the sport. 

That wasn’t always the case though, the tribalism came with the hooligans element of the 70s didn’t it? 

Quite a few old boys I’ve worked/friends with down the years, have said about going to united one week and city the next in the 50s and 60s. Now I’m in the midlands area wolves fans used to do the same and go to the baggies as well. 

Perhaps it’s just the lingering aftermath of the hooligan era and fuelled by the media.

For example united’s greatest manager Sir Matt Busby would never ever have managed united in this era, as he played for Liverpool and Man City. 

Edited December 10, 2018 by thetime

[thetime]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Some have but just the usual lefty people. Klopp has come out in support to sterling as well.

Pretty much everyone that’s commented on sterling have come out in support, they’re not daft. What they haven’t done is admitted what they were doing and taken responsibility. 

Edited December 10, 2018 by thetime

[kaosmark2]

4 minutes ago, thetime said:

That wasn’t always the case though, the tribalism came with the hooligans element of the 70s didn’t it? 

Quite a few old boys I’ve worked/friends with down the years, have said about going to united one week and city the next in the 50s and 60s. Now I’m in the midlands area wolves fans used to do the same and go to the baggies as well. 

Perhaps it’s just the lingering aftermath of the hooligan era and fuelled by the media.

For example united’s greatest manager Sir Matt Busby would never ever have managed united in this era, as he played for Liverpool and Man City. 

To my understanding yeah. My grandad went to both baggies and wolves games when they first moved to the area, but my uncles are both full baggies. 

But the tribalism goes a long way beyond local rivalries. I'll be interested to see how it is in 20 years when the next generation are the ones taking their kids. 

[kaosmark2]

10 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Some have but just the usual lefty people. Klopp has come out in support to sterling as well.

There's shitty articles about sterling from a few months /years ago in the guardian as well. None of their sports staff have apologised or admitted culpability. 

[TheGayTent]

1 hour ago, thetime said:

That wasn’t always the case though, the tribalism came with the hooligans element of the 70s didn’t it? 

Quite a few old boys I’ve worked/friends with down the years, have said about going to united one week and city the next in the 50s and 60s. Now I’m in the midlands area wolves fans used to do the same and go to the baggies as well. 

Perhaps it’s just the lingering aftermath of the hooligan era and fuelled by the media.

For example united’s greatest manager Sir Matt Busby would never ever have managed united in this era, as he played for Liverpool and Man City. 

That’s all a bit nostalgic - and doesn’t tell the full story. Rival football supporters were knocking ten shades out of each other as far back as the 19th century. 

There’s plenty of reports of violence between red and blue mickeys in the 50s. Friendly derby my arse, they’re not all loveable rogues. 

My club’s supporters and Millwall’s were fighting in the name of their clubs and their docks at least as far back as the 1920s. 

Tribalism is as old as the human race, it wasn’t invented in the 70s. 

[zahidf]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

There's shitty articles about sterling from a few months /years ago in the guardian as well. None of their sports staff have apologised or admitted culpability. 

About his football or him buying stuff for his family? 

[zahidf]

 

[jyoung]

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2018/12/10/update-on-manchester-city-match-statement?cardIndex=0-0

[The Nal]

Really enjoyed Too good to Go Down. About Utd getting relegated and the end of the Busby era. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=qyRVmC-M9_M

[thetime]

3 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Really enjoyed Too good to Go Down. About Utd getting relegated and the end of the Busby era. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=qyRVmC-M9_M

Yeah saw that on BT Sports last week, same mistakes that happened in the early 70s have been happening at Utd last 5 years. 

Tommy Doc was bitter about united for years, been talking to a few Utd fans about that era and it’s still there fave era being a fan. 

[kaosmark2]

6 hours ago, zahidf said:

About his football or him buying stuff for his family? 

About how City winning 5-0 without him should be a lesson to him. First paragraph in it.

About his gun tattoo.

Wasn't as bad as the tabloids, but it was still targeted, and in the context of the rest of the media also targeting him, it looks pretty shitty.

[zahidf]

12 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

About how City winning 5-0 without him should be a lesson to him. First paragraph in it.

About his gun tattoo.

Wasn't as bad as the tabloids, but it was still targeted, and in the context of the rest of the media also targeting him, it looks pretty shitty.

Yeah that's ridiculous, but it's not AS bad as the Sun banging on about him spending his money on his family and or using a picture of him in an unrelated story on knife crime. That seems like they are specifically targeting him. 

Hopefully they'll finally leave him alone, but I doubt it.

[eFestivals]

6 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

About his gun tattoo.

anyone who gets a gun tat is a dick.

The guy who gets a gun tat to remember how his dad died is a bigger prick. Who wants to remember someone by their violent murder?  

BTW, one of Little Mix has got a gun tat. Was all over the papers. Racist? 

[eFestivals]

6 hours ago, zahidf said:

the Sun banging on about him spending his money on his family

never happened with Rooney, right?  

Definitely racist.  

There's lots of issues with what some newspapers choose to print, but it's not all driven by what some are calling it out by. 

[pink_triangle]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

never happened with Rooney, right?  

Definitely racist.  

There's lots of issues with what some newspapers choose to print, but it's not all driven by what some are calling it out by. 

They were discussing this on the times podcast and one of the journalists felt it was more of a subconscious racism rather than direct hatred of black people. He also pointed to some research which found people applying for the same jobs, with the same CV were less likely to be interviewed if they have names more associated with black people.

[zahidf]

17 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

never happened with Rooney, right?  

Definitely racist.  

There's lots of issues with what some newspapers choose to print, but it's not all driven by what some are calling it out by. 

Dunno, was he criticised for buying his parents and siblings a house? Luke shaw definitely wasn't.

 

Sterling himself has said he thinks there is a conscious or unconscious racial bias in the press reporting of.black footballers, using two more current examples. But I guess you and piers Morgan know better than he does.

Edited December 11, 2018 by zahidf

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

They were discussing this on the times podcast and one of the journalists felt it was more of a subconscious racism rather than direct hatred of black people. He also pointed to some research which found people applying for the same jobs, with the same CV were less likely to be interviewed if they have names more associated with black people.

Yeah, I saw something similar. I also think certain elements it's certainly conscious: the sun for example certainly has a history of doing that sort of thing.

[eFestivals]

13 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

They were discussing this on the times podcast and one of the journalists felt it was more of a subconscious racism rather than direct hatred of black people.

Classism/snobbery is exactly what it is, and not what it isn't.

 

13 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

He also pointed to some research which found people applying for the same jobs, with the same CV were less likely to be interviewed if they have names more associated with black people.

because that's about criticism of how people spend their money?

And Sterling has a clearly-black name?  

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Classism/snobbery is exactly what it is, and not what it isn't.

 

because that's about criticism of how people spend their money?

And Sterling has a clearly-black name?  

Raheem sterling? Well... raheem certainly is. 

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Dunno, was he criticised for buying his parents and siblings a house? Luke shaw definitely wasn't.

Rooney has been constantly criticised for his spending choices.

Luke Shaw is a player no one cares about and who doesn't sell papers.

Rooney: highest profile English player of his time.
Sterling: highest profile English player of his time.

 

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Sterling himself has said he thinks there is a conscious or unconscious racial bias in the press reporting of.black footballers, using two more current examples. But I guess you and piers Morgan know better than he does.

Because Sterling cannot be wrong, no matter what he feels about it?

I'm simply pointing out that many of the criticisms that have been chucked Sterling's way have been chucked the way of white players too.

Which to me suggests there's more going on here than some want to recognise because they prefer to scweam wasist than actually consider what might be going on.

[eFestivals]

Just now, eFestivals said:

there's more going on

just to be clear when there's people who cannot read about.

I am not saying that Sterling is completely wrong. I'm saying he's not completely right.

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Rooney has been constantly criticised for his spending choices.

Luke Shaw is a player no one cares about and who doesn't sell papers.

Rooney: highest profile English player of his time.
Sterling: highest profile English player of his time.

 

Because Sterling cannot be wrong, no matter what he feels about it?

I'm simply pointing out that many of the criticisms that have been chucked Sterling's way have been chucked the way of white players too.

Which to me suggests there's more going on here than some want to recognise because they prefer to scweam wasist than actually consider what might be going on.

Raheem used the example of two younger, more current players as examples though . One black, one white. There a lot of examples of black players getting portrayed worse than their white counterparts for their spending habits . If someone like Rooney gets it AS bad as his black colleagues, that doesn't prove anything against racial bias.

I think if we are talking about the origins of the racist abuse he is getting, sterling, John Barnes, sol campbell are probably right and would be best placed to know.

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

just to be clear when there's people who cannot read about.

I am not saying that Sterling is completely wrong. I'm saying he's not completely right.

If it is class, there is still a racial element to it though. I don't disagree that class may play a factor in it though.

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Raheem used the example of two younger, more current players as examples though . One black, one white.

because there can never be any difference between two individuals than the colour of their skin?

Sterling might be right with that particular instance, but he might not be too. Without getting in the heads of the writers and editors and headline writers involved we cannot know.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, white-skinned Rooney got much of the same press.

 

Quote

There a lot of examples of black players getting portrayed worse than their white counterparts for their spending habits .

so when I once read a lovely piece about Henri's spending habits, and (separately) a dissing piece about Rooney's spending habits on the same day, it was being racist towards whites?

If your take is right, that MUST be right.

But perhaps your take is wrong, and there's different things to going on to the only thing you want to scream about?

Edited December 11, 2018 by eFestivals