NYC Downlow

[eoinca]

6 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

really ???  all I can say is you have a different morality code to me...  I went to the festival for the first time this year.  I didn't find it overtly political apart from the obvious.

 

Thats the problem with morality codes isn't it? Everyone has their own. I think its abhorrent that anyone would vote TOry, and yet, you think its perfectly acceptable. 

[Keithy]

10 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

 all I can say is you have a different morality code to me.

thankfully it appears I do.

[stuartbert two hats]

11 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

My moral code is strongly based around not judging others for how they enjoy themselves (within reason) and not getting wound up by things that have absolutely nothing to do with me.

Out of upvotes.

[frostypaw]

39 minutes ago, Keithy said:

https://www.residentadvisor.net/features/2778.

...

I don't for a minute believe it was done in an sexual aggressive way and not heard or seen anything to suggest otherwise.

Quote

Berger puts it differently: "So all of these straight boys that flock to The Downlow are like, 'Yeah, maybe, you know, this crew are pretty cool actually. Seeing as I'm here and everybody else is doing it, at a push, maybe I could manage a massive cock in my mouth." 

Nice. This isn't helping, that's just as offensive as straight guys saying lesbians just need a good fucking and that'll sort their misconceptions out.

The whole thing is so self-important it just makes my skin crawl. It's very very reminiscent of how Lost Vagueness was "the heart of the festival" and everything that was amazing and special about glastonbury when all it really offered after a few years was a load of half-naked cabaret dancers only the gay version.

[Keithy]

11 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

I went for a few days break and to see a few good bands.. nothing more nothing less.  I think that door policy that a few were subjected to was at best in really bad taste .

I'm sorry for those that felt upset by it especially if they didn't know and some due to influence may have been coerced into going .

I'm not sure what this area was hoping to achieve apart from shock value which to me is a bit low and this sort of behaviour which allegedly happened elsewhere was totally met with outrage.  Why is it different just because it was LGBT ?. My perception from the few people I know did not condone it either 

Some people regard GF can do no wrong , it's a music and beer fest to a lot of people certainly those that I know who go frequently  not trying to get their minds altered, opened or whatever.

The statement that it was for charity could anyone who went say what charity it was for and how much was raised ??

Where to begin 

Nobody was 'subjected' to anything. Subjected to implies it was dick out or you're not coming in. That wasn't the case.

Coerced? There is absolutely no evidence of that.

Shock value? I can see it might be a shock to people who have not been exposed to this side of a gay lifestyle but the venue is not designed for you. It's designed for gay people. What happened elsewhere (and I presume you mean the Piano bar) is different. That was 'give us drugs or get naked or you're not coming in'  NYCD isn't refusing access to anyone. You might have a few friends who did not condone it but Attitude think it is the best gay nightclub in the world so I'd suggest your friends may be in the minority.

I think most rational people know Glasto can do some things better but this isn't one of them. If you seen Glastonbury as purely a music and beer festival then that's fine but that's not what Glastonbury is just about and is not advertised in that way. If that was your perception beforehand then you must have been completely ignorant of Glastonbury and it's history. 

The charity aspect is easy to find for anyone who does the slightest bit of reading in to NYC Downlow. Infact to not know about it, you'd have to be the sort of person who's making a judgement on something without (a) experiencing it or (b) knowing nothing about it. Nearly every single article written about NYC Downlow mentions it.

[balti-pie]

It's all down to the music for me - if there was a metal LGBT venue playing Rammstein and Judas Priest all night with dark rooms and leather blokes all over the shop, I'd be right in there! 

But house and disco? God no. So as interesting and different as it sounds, I've got no interest in actually attending. The more adult goings-on in there are entirely down to the participants as far as I'm concerned, it's really not anyone else's business. If people want to get pious and puritanical about it then jeez they really shouldn't be at Glastonbury! 

[Keithy]

2 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

Nice. This isn't helping, that's just as offensive as straight guys saying lesbians just need a good fucking and that'll sort their misconceptions out.

The whole thing is so self-important it just makes my skin crawl. It's very very reminiscent of how Lost Vagueness was "the heart of the festival" and everything that was amazing and special about glastonbury when all it really offered after a few years was a load of half-naked cabaret dancers only the gay version.

Perhaps it's just different interpretations. I take the line "Seeing as I'm here and everybody else is doing it, at a push, maybe I could manage a massive cock in my mouth." as humour in that he's highlighting that straight blokes come to NYCD who have never had any exposure to a gaylife style and suddenly discover they are perfectly normal people just like them and it's just a matter of sexual preferences and orientation. Just as you might go to a rave having never done drugs and then thought "well these all seem normal folk, if everyone else is doing E then I might give it a go"

[frostypaw]

11 minutes ago, Keithy said:

Attitude think it is the best gay nightclub in the world

In all fairness they're total morons, and no better than any teen-interest mag only with lots of cock. 

Quote

humour

read the rest of what they said. It's not humour.

ps. for a sign of how "accepting" Attitude is check out the photos and ask if that's a representative and inclusive selection of the range of folk you see at the festival, or is it the kinky-gay version of the sun only taking photos of scantily clad girls. One of the prime things that come up in gay body-dismorphics....

Edited July 10, 2017 by frostypaw

[dentalplan]

10 hours ago, serendipitous said:

There seem to be two separate issues that keep cropping up. The first: the dark room. Dark rooms have been a part of gay clubbing for decades, as clubs become more gentrified and rely more and more on money from straight guests to keep afloat you see fewer of them. That said I can think of four clubs/bars on Canal Street in Manchester that still operate dark rooms. The reality is that NYCD operates as a late 80s NYC gay dive bar, that would have had a darkroom. If you're not LGBT and this causes you discomfort I don't care, you're a tourist in a temporary queer space. It doesn't matter how many "gays you know" or if you used to go to lesbian bars decades ago, it's not your space. If you are LGBT and it bothers you do some reading on our history and get a sense of perspective.

Is it not becoming less of a thing now LGBT folk are more likely to have relationships in the light instead of being consigned to fucking in a dark side room?

This is the thing that irks me about the discussion at hand; that people are like "this is what gays do, get over it!" when it seems to diminish LGBT peeps to a cartoon stereotype. I've no problem with the thing whatsoever, just the general throwback attitude init.

Plus Philipa's Van was mercilessly mocked and is still used as a punchline around these parts and that was a similar fare, albeit straight.

[eoinca]

6 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

This is the thing that irks me about the discussion at hand; that people are like "this is what gays do, get over it!" when it seems to diminish LGBT peeps to a cartoon stereotype. 

No, its more "This is what happens in gay dance clubs, get over it" 

Which it does, as someone mentioned earlier, places like Berghain still have darkrooms. 

[serendipitous]

9 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

Is it not becoming less of a thing now LGBT folk are more likely to have relationships in the light instead of being consigned to fucking in a dark side room?

This is the thing that irks me about the discussion at hand; that people are like "this is what gays do, get over it!" when it seems to diminish LGBT peeps to a cartoon stereotype. I've no problem with the thing whatsoever, just the general throwback attitude init.

Plus Philipa's Van was mercilessly mocked and is still used as a punchline around these parts and that was a similar fare, albeit straight.

I don't think you understand, I'm in a loving relationship "in the light". We go out for dinner, go to the cinema, hell he even made me watch part of Ed Sheerans set the other night. We also fuck in dark rooms, we're not consigned to it, we enjoy it. Recently I fisted him in a dark room with a sling to a small crowd.

It's only when you reduce us to only our niche sexual traditions that you turn us into cartoons. Open sexuality and open sex has long been a part of LGBT clubbing culture, it only becomes a problem, as always, when heterosexual sexual people get involved and try and suggest that their outrage is somehow in our interest. It doesn't define every LGBT person but for large numbers of us it represents a part of our identity.

No idea about Phillipas van but sounds like a bunch of straights not being able to deal with open sexuality without it all being shits and giggles.

 

[frostypaw]

5 minutes ago, eoinca said:

No, its more "This is what happens in gay dance clubs, get over it" 

Which it does, as someone mentioned earlier, places like Berghain still have darkrooms. 

*a few gay dance clubs

It's pretty retrogressive. There are lots of efforts to end the chemsex thing due to the harms it causes, and the open sex in front of everyone is only a small fringe activity. These aren't sexual traditions - it's just the way some people behave when there are no limits set and it chews up and spits out plenty in terrible shape. 

It horrifies me having this painted as a core part of gay culture - it's NOT. Extreme sexuality is common to all sexual persuasions, it's not a gay exclusive.

[Tartan_Glasto]

If you refused to get your cock out for free entry and the person at the door still tried to grab it, then that would be sexual assault. However, if you're happy to get it out for free entry into a club then I'm sure you're not too offended if the person asking then also touches it. 

I went on the Friday night as there were no headliners I fancied. Was pretty quiet. I got in for free cause the drag queen at the door said I looked adorable so I was happy with that haha Once inside I was a bit shocked...it was far more TAME than I expected. Reading about it in the programme I was expecting it to be a lot more wild. It was made clear in the programme there was a dark room so if that offended me I wouldn't have gone. I even popped into it for a nosey to see how it all worked but there was no one in at the time. 

It is not a space for LGBT people only. It's a LGBT friendly space and there is a big difference. 

The self-entitled attitude from some people on this forum is honestly quite unexpected.

[serendipitous]

18 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

*a few gay dance clubs

It's pretty retrogressive. There are lots of efforts to end the chemsex thing due to the harms it causes, and the open sex in front of everyone is only a small fringe activity. These aren't sexual traditions - it's just the way some people behave when there are no limits set and it chews up and spits out plenty in terrible shape. 

It horrifies me having this painted as a core part of gay culture - it's NOT. Extreme sexuality is common to all sexual persuasions, it's not a gay exclusive.

But it has long since been a core part of gay clubbing culture, maybe not a core part that you want to join in with but nobody is forcing you to. A little bit of research would show you that dark rooms are a longstanding sexual tradition for gay men. Whether you personally like them or not.

 

Nobody is forcing you or indeed anyone else in this thread to participate, your pearl clutching is rather tragic.

Edited July 10, 2017 by serendipitous

[dentalplan]

36 minutes ago, eoinca said:

No, its more "This is what happens in gay dance clubs, get over it" 

Yeah this and the explanation by @serendipitous  boils down that I'd misinterpreted what people were getting at. Apologies.

[frostypaw]

3 minutes ago, serendipitous said:

But it has long since been a core part of gay clubbing culture, maybe not a core part that you want to join in with but nobody is forcing you to. A little bit of research would show you that dark rooms are a longstanding sexual tradition for gay men. Whether you personally like them or not.

Nobody is forcing you or indeed anyone else in this thread to participate, your pearl clutching is rather tragic.

Not so much. It's been a sideline - speaking as someone who's been doing gay clubbing for over 20 years I'm not entirely uninformed thanks fella. For some people yes it's a lot of the appeal of the few places that go for it, but you're dressing it up there plenty. There are a lot of gay clubs in London that aren't the Hoist, and only so many Chariots.

You might not be forcing me to participate, but I am forced to deal with the fallout. Question is are you going to show how accepting and inclusive our culture is by listening and trying to find balance, or flounce and stamp your foot shouting "i'll do wot i want"? As you yourself said "It's only when you reduce us to only our niche sexual traditions that you turn us into cartoons" - please stop reducing us to that, it's just a niche.

[Nikolai1985]

14 hours ago, ___S_o_m_a__ said:

Dave... you weren't there man!

This made me laugh! so is upvoted!

14 hours ago, Dave_c said:

I'll give you an upvote for that, even if I am a c**t

And this too as it shows it was funny as f**k!

Its a part of the festival who even cares, do what your doing and let others do the same as long as no one is getting hurt, I didn't even go in the main bit this year just chilled in the crew bar to the side of it for cheaper drinks

[serendipitous]

2 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

Not so much. It's been a sideline - speaking as someone who's been doing gay clubbing for over 20 years I'm not entirely uninformed thanks fella. For some people yes it's a lot of the appeal of the few places that go for it, but you're dressing it up there plenty. There are a lot of gay clubs in London that aren't the Hoist, and only so many Chariots.

You might not be forcing me to participate, but I am forced to deal with the fallout. Question is are you going to show how accepting and inclusive our culture is by listening and trying to find balance, or flounce and stamp your foot shouting "i'll do wot i want"? As you yourself said "It's only when you reduce us to only our niche sexual traditions that you turn us into cartoons" - please stop reducing us to that, it's just a niche.

But you're the one who seems to think that by keeping niche sexual traditions alive you're reducing yourself to being only those traditions. My boyfriend and I visit dark rooms, we also have a wide range of other interests. The only people reducing us to cartoons are those who seem intent on decrying this awful sexual deviancy.

I'm genuinely lost as to what "fallout" you're having to deal with? I'm also lost as to why you seem to think LGBT people should temper their sexuality to avoid this fallout? If straight people can't deal with a bit of fucking in a corner they shouldn't enter a queer space where it might be going on.

[CaledonianGonzo]

If the issue is that LGBT sexuality is only represented onsite by the one venue - and it's one where the emphasis is specifically on raunchy hedonism (and so by it's nature is a bit single faceted) - then would one answer be for there to be more than one LGBT space?  One that doesn't just focus on the carnal side of things? 

Though I dunno how that would come about or what specifically it would look like.

[babyblade41]

4 minutes ago, serendipitous said:

 

I'm genuinely lost as to what "fallout" you're having to deal with? I'm also lost as to why you seem to think LGBT people should temper their sexuality to avoid this fallout? If straight people can't deal with a bit of fucking in a corner they shouldn't enter a queer space where it might be going on.

This statement is where I have no comprehension of some sections of the community  and I am limited as I have only been invited to 2 civil partnerships  (is that the right phrase, apologies if it's wrong) and those two couples have a totally different view as a few who enjoy the darker side 

I'm not sure how comfortable I could be performing with an audience ... but then I am an oldie !! actually just performing nowadays is nigh on impossible with the hip popping in and out more than my partner 

[babyblade41]

1 minute ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

If the issue is that LGBT sexuality is only represented onsite by the one venue - and it's one where the emphasis is specifically on raunchy hedonism (and so by it's nature is a bit single faceted) - then would one answer be for there to be more than one LGBT space?  One that doesn't just focus on the carnal side of things? 

Though I dunno how that would come about or what specifically it would look like.

I think that is an excellent idea, surely there is more to being LGBT than just the physical act to focus on 

[BambooShanks]

10 hours ago, serendipitous said:

There seem to be two separate issues that keep cropping up. The first: the dark room. Dark rooms have been a part of gay clubbing for decades, as clubs become more gentrified and rely more and more on money from straight guests to keep afloat you see fewer of them. That said I can think of four clubs/bars on Canal Street in Manchester that still operate dark rooms. The reality is that NYCD operates as a late 80s NYC gay dive bar, that would have had a darkroom. If you're not LGBT and this causes you discomfort I don't care, you're a tourist in a temporary queer space. It doesn't matter how many "gays you know" or if you used to go to lesbian bars decades ago, it's not your space. If you are LGBT and it bothers you do some reading on our history and get a sense of perspective.

 

The issue with people being invited to flash body parts rather than pay to get in? A couple of people I know were offered this, did so and didn't feel violated. That said it's probably a little on the nose and it'd be easy to cross the line from bit of a joke to seriously upsetting someone. As far as I know nobody was ever denied entry for refusing, instead they just paid the charity entry fee. Regardless hopefully they drop it next time around.

The whole dark room issue is the one that causes me the most trouble in regards to tourists who don't understand what they are, take a look and then get offended/shocked. It's hard to mitigate this from happening. They could have a notice or a sign by the dark room explaining this but that runs the risk of turning the dark room into even more of a sideshow/exhibit than it already is.

Curiosity is one thing but I don't feel comfortable with people going in just to gawp at what goes on in there when they have no intention, respect or knowledge of what that space means to the culture.

I've always been curious as to how depraved the dark rooms can get, but as someone who doesn't have an interest in participating, I find it disrespectful to go in just to look (side note: one time at berghain, my friend wanted to see what goes on in one of the dark rooms and decided to have a look. He took 2 steps in before quickly exiting. It took him 30 minutes to process what he saw before he could tell me).

Essentially, the lgbt community preaches tolerance and respect. These values should be shared by all those who access the space, regardless of how they identify and should treat the space with the respect that the community have arrived so hard to attain.

[Slugworth]

3 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

This statement is where I have no comprehension of some sections of the community  and I am limited as I have only been invited to 2 civil partnerships  (is that the right phrase, apologies if it's wrong) and those two couples have a totally different view as a few who enjoy the darker side 

I'm not sure how comfortable I could be performing with an audience ... but then I am an oldie !! actually just performing nowadays is nigh on impossible with the hip popping in and out more than my partner 

OMG I just spat my coffee out, haha 

[magliad]

14 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:

Does Manchester still have Homoelectric? Went there with mates a few times in the late 00's and loved it.

Yep, they still do frequent events at various venues around the city. 

[babyblade41]

Just now, Slugworth said:

OMG I just spat my coffee out, haha 

apologies , hope it didn't ruin your keyboard