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Are Tories welcome at Glastonbury

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3 hours ago, Zac Quinn said:

Innit just. They're so scared of having their 'ideas' correctly shown up as egregious that they're choosing to hold their 'festival' in an invite-only secret location. Unbelievably ridiculous that these people are in charge. 

I'd not given it nearly that level of thought. I was more along the lines of could you imagine being stuck in a field with them. Not sure if it was the thought of that, or the shitty August weather but a shiver just went through me

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13 minutes ago, Glastoboy said:

I'd be very interested to see what bands (if any) would want to play Toryfest.

Eric Clapton?

Gary Barlow?

Craig David?

There's quite a few.

Edited by Ommadawn

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1 hour ago, Ommadawn said:

Eric Clapton?

Gary Barlow?

Craig David?

There's quite a few.

Phil Collins, Spandau Ballet, The Who, the Spice Girls.. in actual fact if Tory bands stuck to playing that festival rather than ours I wouldn't complain 

Edited by Zac Quinn
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On 05/08/2017 at 1:37 AM, rivalschools.price said:

100% agree

My general rule in life is to never argue (or 'discuss') with anyone about politics or religion and generally avoid negativity and confrontational people

Seems to work for me 

Are you by any chance, doing alright? In a position where Brexit or a Tory government might be unpleasant but isn't going to fuck up the lives of you or anyone close to you?

Not a dig, and y'know, whatever gets you through the day, but I think when you adopt that approach it's important to acknowledge that it comes from a position of privilege, and it's not an option realistically open to everyone.

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55 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Are you by any chance, doing alright? In a position where Brexit or a Tory government might be unpleasant but isn't going to fuck up the lives of you or anyone close to you?

Not a dig, and y'know, whatever gets you through the day, but I think when you adopt that approach it's important to acknowledge that it comes from a position of privilege, and it's not an option realistically open to everyone.

Deleted

Edited by Ommadawn

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Im not sure what counts as 'doing alright' but whatever it is.arguing and abusing people at a festival isn't going to change it so I like to spend my time at a festival argument free

If it ever gets to the stage where I can influence brexit or a Tory government,I'll do it on the 358 days of the year I'm not at a festival 

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8 hours ago, rivalschools.price said:

 

Im not sure what counts as 'doing alright' but whatever it is.arguing and abusing people at a festival isn't going to change it so I like to spend my time at a festival argument free

If it ever gets to the stage where I can influence brexit or a Tory government,I'll do it on the 358 days of the year I'm not at a festival 

You said it was a general rule for life, not just the festival so that's what I picked up on. And obviously abuse isn't okay but sometimes it is important to challenge things.

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2 hours ago, DeanoL said:

You said it was a general rule for life, not just the festival so that's what I picked up on. And obviously abuse isn't okay but sometimes it is important to challenge things.

Yes, to be fair I did say that in that post so I understand why you thought that but my general comments in the thread have been talking about people spending their festival arguing about politics and abusing/insulting Tories.

The festival is too short for that

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On 8/6/2017 at 4:21 PM, Glastoboy said:

I'd be very interested to see what bands (if any) would want to play Toryfest.

wp5ZKsn.jpg

Edited by GETOFFAMYLAWN

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On 8/6/2017 at 4:21 PM, Glastoboy said:

I'd be very interested to see what bands (if any) would want to play Toryfest.

anyone who played Wilderness at the weekend just gone?

cameron-fest_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqg5ozdfdQp

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5 hours ago, Zac Quinn said:

Poor Sigrid being wasted on that monster.

Haha was he actually or you having a laugh? Imagine being Sigrid, singing about people killing your vibe and then David Cameron turns up.

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1 hour ago, jyoung said:

Haha was he actually or you having a laugh? Imagine being Sigrid, singing about people killing your vibe and then David Cameron turns up.

Dunno if a Tory would choose to go see a European, but I'll forever choose to believe he did only to be blown into the next field by her sass.

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1 hour ago, Zac Quinn said:

Dunno if a Tory would choose to go see a European, but I'll forever choose to believe he did only to be blown into the next field by her sass.

to be fair to the pigfucker he's all for Europe ... which is better than the leading politicians at the moment. ;)

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19 hours ago, eFestivals said:

to be fair to the pigfucker he's all for Europe ... which is better than the leading politicians at the moment. ;)

But he did call the referendum so not sure he deserves much credit...

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4 minutes ago, strummer77 said:

But he did call the referendum so not sure he deserves much credit...

being pro-EU isn't the same as being a fan of foreign people anyway :lol: 

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14 minutes ago, strummer77 said:

But he did call the referendum so not sure he deserves much credit...

I don't really see how any democrat can blame someone for holding a vote that the majority of the public are in favour of, no matter what reasons there were going on in the background.

Or, likewise, for the result of that public vote.

Feel free to blame him for doing a shit job at selling the EU to the public, but beyond that if you're a democrat you should surely always be a democrat?

Otherwise the alternative you might promote as better isn't on a path that will lead anywhere better.

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3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I don't really see how any democrat can blame someone for holding a vote that the majority of the public are in favour of, no matter what reasons there were going on in the background.

Or, likewise, for the result of that public vote.

Feel free to blame him for doing a shit job at selling the EU to the public, but beyond that if you're a democrat you should surely always be a democrat?

Otherwise the alternative you might promote as better isn't on a path that will lead anywhere better.

Yeah but it's never that simple. He didn't call the referendum out of a desire to understand what the public wants. He called it because he was sure he could win it at that point in time and believed that a win for Remain would put the issue to bed for a decade or two. Whereas he was worried a few years later that Leave might actually have a chance of winning.

Just like how now all the Leavers are scared to death of the idea of a second referendum as they're fairly sure they will lose it.

As a democrat, are you also in favour of the equal marriage plebiscite in Australia?

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9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I don't really see how any democrat can blame someone for holding a vote that the majority of the public are in favour of, no matter what reasons there were going on in the background.

Sometimes the public are wrong. Particularly with the state of the newspapers in this country. 'If the people want it, it must happen' is an incredibly dangerous road to walk down.

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4 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

He didn't call the referendum out of a desire to understand what the public wants

I know, but that doesn't alter the fact that a majority of the public wanted it.

And given that a majority of the public voted for it, it can't have been wrong from any democratic principle, it can only have been absolutely correct to have been held.

 

6 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

As a democrat, are you also in favour of the equal marriage plebiscite in Australia?

It's something entirely different because the matter behind it isn't merely a political choice, it impinges on 'natural rights'. There are no 'natural rights' around the choice of the EU or not.

All the same, what I'm calling 'natural rights' there is a subjective opinion of mine, and while I strongly disagree with discrimination based on sexuality, I do accept the right of any society to make its choice about that, and in the manner of their choosing - so if a society feels it should be decided by public vote (rather than a decision taken in Parliament) then I'm fully accepting of that way of deciding.

 

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16 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

Sometimes the public are wrong.

in a democracy the public can never be wrong.

Just like me, I'm sure you only think the public are wrong because the answer was the wrong answer for you.

 

16 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

Particularly with the state of the newspapers in this country.

Because some people are more-worthy to give the 'right' answer than others?

Ever read animal farm? ;)

 

16 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

'If the people want it, it must happen' is an incredibly dangerous road to walk down.

I don't particularly disagree, but all things are not equal around that idea.

To take the most common thing, 'the public' are in favour of death sentences, and always have been. So how come we've had a vote o the EU, but not on death sentences?

To which the answer is: the public wanted a vote on the EU, while there's no clamour for a vote on death sentences.

Which, I think, demonstrates 'the public' are smarter than you wish to give them credit for with some of the lines you've used above.

There's also the fact that the EUref wasn't a sudden public want, but something which had been a growing want over decades, and where it had been offered at points by politicians and where a self-serving interpretation had been put around the Lisbon Treaty by politicians to deny the public what had been promised.

The politicians had every chance to do something better for the public, but decided they could screw over the public. In the end the public said 'fuck you' back.

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20 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I don't really see how any democrat can blame someone for holding a vote that the majority of the public are in favour of, no matter what reasons there were going on in the background.

Or, likewise, for the result of that public vote.

Feel free to blame him for doing a shit job at selling the EU to the public, but beyond that if you're a democrat you should surely always be a democrat?

Otherwise the alternative you might promote as better isn't on a path that will lead anywhere better.

Was there much evidence was there that a majority of public wanted an EU referendum back before 2015? He put it in the manifesto as a sop to his party. There are lots of issues that 50% of the public may vote for but don't get them. The large majority of people only really focused on the EU after the referendum became a thing post-election.

I am a democrat though, and that's why I actually think that right now we had a vote we should be proceeding with Brexit in the immediate future but holding it to severe scrutiny. 

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5 minutes ago, strummer77 said:

Was there much evidence was there that a majority of public wanted an EU referendum back before 2015?

to my knowledge, most polls had been showing a majority in favour of a vote at least since Blair/Brown bottled one over the Lisbon Treaty. Those in favour weren't only leavers, btw.

I know there were polls before that which also showed a majority in favour of a vote too, tho I can't remember how (in)consistent they were now.

And anyway, with the vote having been won, it gets mighty difficult to suggest a majority weren't in favour of that vote.

I hate we're leaving the EU (just to be clear), but I think of all the arguments that might bring about a change of heart those are the very worst ones. When we start denying the legitimacy of a public vote after the result didn't go the way we'd prefer, it's getting into much more dodgy territory than the likes of the 'If the people want it, it must happen' is an incredibly dangerous road to walk down" said above.

 

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