Are Tories welcome at Glastonbury

[Ommadawn]

9 minutes ago, slash's hat said:

Ok fair enough, was not aware of that figure, wow. Just not how I remembered it...obviously due to the reasons you gave about equivalent time.

Genuine question here, (not just to blisterpack), but it's in regard to talk of these companies leaving. This is not a new thing to have companies posturing over taking their businesses elsewhere due to government policy, and yes, above I can see some are, or at least making plans to leave and not just threatening. However do you not think some of these companies are using brexit as an excuse for something they have considered for a long time anyway? Companies have mooted cost of having a business here as significantly higher than if they were elsewhere for a long time, I will use call centre work as one example of this that has already seen a large loss of jobs.

Also, if we were to have a 2nd vote, which voted remain and we did so, do you think it would/could seriously weaken our position in the eu for future negotiations?

I'm guessing a fair number of major companies are worried about Corbyns plans should Labour get into power. Maybe they're using Brexit as an excuse for possibly re-locating.

[glastolover19]

10 hours ago, clarkete said:

Well 200 business signed a letter in February 2016 warning of the risks.

Start with that one sector  

here you go and I purposely used a pro brexit site in the interest of fairness. Also I must stress once again I'm not pro brexit neither am I totally against it,I'm trying to remain impartial. I'm just pointing out the fact that there is/was arguments on both sides wether right or wrong for every argument for their was an argument against so it's understandable people didn't know which way to turn

http://www.eumemes.eu/brexit-boycott-lists.html

 

[Mr.Tease]

17 hours ago, Homer said:

Brexiters love a bit of hanging and corporal punishment according to this hilarious survey!

Half of Leave voters want to bring back the death penalty after Brexit

 

And 30 per cent of Leave voters want the notorious and energy inefficient incandescent light bulbs back

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-leave-voters-death-penalty-yougov-results-light-bulbs-a7656791.html

That 30% of leave voters wanting old lightbulbs back had me in stitches when i first read it a few months ago?

[Rose-Colored Boy]

13 hours ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

There are some strong views in this thread (which I have to save is all the more enjoyable for being conducted in a civil manner).

Have any of you engaged your MP to make your views known and lobby for your favoured outcome?

 

Yep. My MP  is firmly remain for all the usual reasons but he’s Labour so has limited influence at the moment unfortunately.

[Apone]

Reading the Brexit element to this thread is like reading HG Wells Time Machine where Remainers clearly think they're the Eloi while Leavers are the Morlocks

[Homer]

24 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

I'm guessing a fair number of major companies are worried about Corbyns plans should Labour get into power. Maybe they're using Brexit as an excuse for possibly re-locating.

 

Why would they need to make an excuse? Why not wait and if Corbyn gets in say they are leaving because they don't like the current climate?

If they made up a Brexit claim, they risk alienating 51% of voters. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Homer]

May is a dead duck now - from the BBC:

 

Her party won't accept a proposal to keep the UK essentially in the customs union. Parliament is likely to block no deal. The EU won't accept her Chequers plan.

Even loyal ministers are deeply worried - "She is like a chess player who only has the king left - all she can do is move one square at a time until she is check-mated."

[Thunderstruck]

20 hours ago, Blisterpack said:

EU laws can be vetoed by any member country. The fact that they tend not to do so is because they are usually sensible and of benefit. Parliament is, and always has been, sovereign in terms of UK law. 

 

That isn't strictly true. We can veto but it doesn't always mean we can reject implementation of an EU law. More info here:

https://fullfact.org/europe/british-influence-eu-council-ministers/

 

 

 

[henry bear]

For info, there’s a dedicated Brexit thread here:

https://www.efestivals.co.uk/forums/topic/219802-brexit-schmexit/

 

[Mr.Tease]

17 minutes ago, Homer said:

May is a dead duck now - from the BBC:

 

Her party won't accept a proposal to keep the UK essentially in the customs union. Parliament is likely to block no deal. The EU won't accept her Chequers plan.

Even loyal ministers are deeply worried - "She is like a chess player who only has the king left - all she can do is move one square at a time until she is check-mated."

Her past behaviour indicates that she tends to shamelessly back down/back flip when push comes to shove, while shamelessly denying that's what she's doing (See her calling an election after saying she wouldn't, saying nothing has changed when she had to change the care funding proposals in the election, etc etc), so ordinarily I'd say she will completely cave in to the EU after a bit more drama then deny she's conceded what she's conceded.

However the Tories must have realised that they actually, bizarrely, seemed to get a swing of support after she embarrassed herself in Salzburg, because she responded by essentially telling the EU to come and have a go if they think their hard enough. That seems to play well with some voters. So I wouldn't be surprised if we crash out with no deal, but the Tories then frame it as "we tried so hard but they wouldn't be reasonable, we won't divide the UK and we'll show them all we don't need them" and get a boost in support. People might not understand all the ins and outs, but that gives them an emotional message that might unfortunately resonate, while we cut our noses off to spite our face.

[glastolover19]

12 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Her past behaviour indicates that she tends to shamelessly back down/back flip when push comes to shove, while shamelessly denying that's what she's doing (See her calling an election after saying she wouldn't, saying nothing has changed when she had to change the care funding proposals in the election, etc etc), so ordinarily I'd say she will completely cave in to the EU after a bit more drama then deny she's conceded what she's conceded.

However the Tories must have realised that they actually, bizarrely, seemed to get a swing of support after she embarrassed herself in Salzburg, because she responded by essentially telling the EU to come and have a go if they think their hard enough. That seems to play well with some voters. So I wouldn't be surprised if we crash out with no deal, but the Tories then frame it as "we tried so hard but they wouldn't be reasonable, we won't divide the UK and we'll show them all we don't need them" and get a boost in support. People might not understand all the ins and outs, but that gives them an emotional message that might unfortunately resonate, while we cut our noses off to spite our face.

At least with those sweet dance moves she's been busting out lately, if she does get given her marching orders she will have plenty of time to sign up to be a cage dancer next season in Ibiza.

Just finding the positives?

[priest17]

20 hours ago, Homer said:

No, I was born in 76. Do you?

Eh?

[Homer]

2 minutes ago, priest17 said:

Eh?

Ha ha - Homer's actually my middle name - true story! Having vaguely hippy-fied parents gave me a love of festivals - but there some downsides too!

Edited October 15, 2018 by Homer

[glastolover19]

2 minutes ago, priest17 said:

Eh?

So your telling me I haven't been speaking to the real Homer Simpson? Boy do I feel duped?

[Homer]

Wow, just found out JRM's dad wrote a book specifically about disaster capitalism and how to make money from a failing economy! And still some leavers can't recognise why the hard right Tories are transparently running the economy into the ground at their expense. Unbelievable!

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blood-Streets-Investment-Profits-World/dp/067162735X

[glastolover19]

7 minutes ago, Homer said:

Wow, just found out JRM's dad wrote a book specifically about disaster capitalism and how to make money from a failing economy! And still some leavers can't recognise why the hard right Tories are transparently running the economy into the ground at their expense. Unbelievable!

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blood-Streets-Investment-Profits-World/dp/067162735X

Frankly we have far bigger issues right now. Is your middle name really Homer?

[Ommadawn]

1 hour ago, Homer said:

 

Why would they need to make an excuse? Why not wait and if Corbyn gets in say they are leaving because they don't like the current climate?

 

It might be a tad too late by then don't you think?

[HalfAnIdiot]

3 hours ago, sime said:

Here's one for you. Panasonic. Not just planning but doing... 

 

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-45351288?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s

Yup, "fewer than 10 roles" if you look into it.

Panasonic have no plans to move their operations. They employ approx 400 staff in the UK.

Conversly there may end up being some attractive tax advantages to basing a HQ in the UK. We just don't know, which is the unacceptable bit!

[Homer]

27 minutes ago, glastolover19 said:

Frankly we have far bigger issues right now. Is your middle name really Homer?

What, other than the fact that the Tory right are pushing through Brexit right now in order to profit from it themselves (as illustrated by the above book)?

Yep!

[glastolover19]

5 minutes ago, Homer said:

What, other than the fact that the Tory right are pushing through Brexit right now in order to profit from it themselves (as illustrated by the above book)?

Yep!

Awesome. 

Yep to me the big news is I have spoken to the real Homer,I'm made up

[HalfAnIdiot]

1 hour ago, Mr.Tease said:

Her past behaviour indicates that she tends to shamelessly back down/back flip when push comes to shove, while shamelessly denying that's what she's doing (See her calling an election after saying she wouldn't, saying nothing has changed when she had to change the care funding proposals in the election, etc etc), so ordinarily I'd say she will completely cave in to the EU after a bit more drama then deny she's conceded what she's conceded.

However the Tories must have realised that they actually, bizarrely, seemed to get a swing of support after she embarrassed herself in Salzburg, because she responded by essentially telling the EU to come and have a go if they think their hard enough. That seems to play well with some voters. So I wouldn't be surprised if we crash out with no deal, but the Tories then frame it as "we tried so hard but they wouldn't be reasonable, we won't divide the UK and we'll show them all we don't need them" and get a boost in support. People might not understand all the ins and outs, but that gives them an emotional message that might unfortunately resonate, while we cut our noses off to spite our face.

The negotiations are pure theatre playing to a hostile audience.

May is dancing towards a very soft Brexit (a temporary continuation of the customs union with no time limit looks likely). Labour will back this as it comes close enough to their 6?  rules and they make it permanent when they are in power.

May is a remainer and, I suspect, wanted this outcome all along. History will judge if she has played a nuanced game and 'saved the UK' or if she is a f##k up that led us to our doom.

[Homer]

20 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

It might be a tad too late by then don't you think?

So, to be clear, car companies that are claiming the problem is being caused by a Tory policy are in fact using that as a smokescreen because they don't like Corbyn, who none of us can be sure will ever be PM anyway?! Honestly? 

Do you not think that the car companies have genuine concerns that ending the just in time supply lines that the automotive industry relies on and the millions this would cost them if we don't get the right deal?

 

Personally, I reckon this is what they are genuinely concerned about and that's why they are saying that it is. And they're saying that specifically to warn against, and try to avoid, a hard Brexit. 

[Homer]

1 minute ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

The negotiations are pure theatre playing to a hostile audience.

May is dancing towards a very soft Brexit (a temporary continuation of the customs union with no time limit looks likely). Labour will back this as it comes close enough to their 6?  rules and they make it permanent when they are in power.

May is a remainer and, I suspect, wanted this outcome all along. History will judge if she has played a nuanced game and 'saved the UK' or if she is a f##k up that led us to our doom.

I agree that this is what May is trying to do, but I don't reckon this will play out much further. She won't get a soft Brexit past her party, let alone through Parliament.  The trouble is: I can't see anyone getting anything through Parliament and past the country. No one has the numbers or will do soon.

 

This is being created by the ERG types sniping constantly from the right without offering up workable solutions (as they don't have any, they just want to make money for themselves) or compromises. They can't get anything through themselves; but they can thwart May/anything else.

[HalfAnIdiot]

6 minutes ago, Homer said:

I agree that this is what May is trying to do, but I don't reckon this will play out much further. She won't get a soft Brexit past her party, let alone through Parliament.  The trouble is: I can't see anyone getting anything through Parliament and past the country. No one has the numbers or will do soon.

 

This is being created by the ERG types sniping constantly from the right without offering up workable solutions (as they don't have any, they just want to make money for themselves) or compromises. They can't get anything through themselves; but they can thwart May/anything else.

If Labour decide to vote for the deal she will easily win a parliamentary majority. 

The right wing of her party will scream betrayal. A general election will take place. Tory's will be in the wilderness for years.

 History will judge May. PMs want to go down well in the history books.

[Scott129]

57 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

If Labour decide to vote for the deal she will easily win a parliamentary majority. 

The right wing of her party will scream betrayal. A general election will take place. Tory's will be in the wilderness for years.

 History will judge May. PMs want to go down well in the history books.

She will get a handful of votes from Labour MPs who will use the opportunity to act against Corbyn, but Labour as a whole will whip against her deal. Labour want a full customs union, not a temporary customs union before chequers in a few years. 

Constitutionally speaking I can't see any way other than having a 'People's Vote'. May's deal won't get through Parliament (with irreconcilable differences between the DUP, ERG and remainers). An election could be called to resolve this, hut that could easily leave us with a similar situation with no majority for any deal. So that only leaves the option of a second referendum. 

For what it's worth, I don't think a second referendum should include a remain option. I suggest: Chequers, customs union, and no deal with alrernative voting system used