Are Tories welcome at Glastonbury

[HalfAnIdiot]

2 minutes ago, Rose-Colored Boy said:

Particularly with stand up comedy, it’s all about observations and pointing out people’s flaws in logic. That isn’t exactly something which would usually go hand-in-hand with believing in the right-wing way of doing things.

There are a lot of logic flaws in left wing comedy. People are happy to overlook these to get to the punchline for some reason.

[Homer]

3 minutes ago, David756 said:

The technology is available (we use similar things when entering our estates, not who actually, but definitely what), how practical I'm not sure. I'd also agree with the EU that anything that is manufactured in the United Kingdom is compliant with EU legislation (because let's be honest, it's a decent standard). 

End of the day the government have to implement Brexit, I know people are upset at the moment but the sheer outrage that would come if they didn't isn't worth thinking about. 

 

The EU say a Canada +++++ whatever deal is on the table, if they actually told the truth and said it excludes NI instead of grandstanding (both sides are doing it) then we would get further. It is in the EU's interest to get a deal, as well as show you can't just leave the union. Make no mistake, if the UK make a success out of all this, the EU will be very worried. 

 

I don’t believe that is there technology that can x-ray the boot of a moving vehicle and check their passports simultaneously without them stopping and while also searching for drugs, guns etc.

 

i don’t personally have a problem with the border being down the Irish Sea - but obviously the DUP won’t swallow that. Is that what’s in the Canada plus plus deal do you reckon?

 

i agree that we are in a bad position re the negotiations - but we put ourselves in the position. We effectively shot ourselves in the foot then handed the EU the gun.

[glastolover19]

32 minutes ago, Rose-Colored Boy said:

Again, nothing personal against you here but the economic crash in 2008, which we’re still seeing the aftereffects of 10 years later, sunk GDP by a quarter of what a no deal Brexit would.

Not overly sure you can really compare the two, 1 was caused by greed and incompetence and 1 was (potentially) caused by a majority deciding they want to try something different

[Homer]

7 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

There are a lot of logic flaws in left wing comedy. People are happy to overlook these to get to the punchline for some reason.

Yeah, I’m not saying all left wing comedy is funny. I’m saying most comedians are left wing.

 

i don’t find Simon Munnery very funny at all - but his Alan Parker character taking the piss out of lefty Billy Bragg types was hilarious.

[HalfAnIdiot]

1 minute ago, Homer said:

 

I don’t believe that is there technology that can x-ray the boot of a moving vehicle and check their passports simultaneously without them stopping and while also searching for drugs, guns etc.

 

i don’t personally have a problem with the border being down the Irish Sea - but obviously the DUP won’t swallow that. Is that what’s in the Canada plus plus deal do you reckon?

 

i agree that we are in a bad position re the negotiations - but we put ourselves in the position. We effectively shot ourselves in the foot then handed the EU the gun.

It's really not a question of people hiding in car boots. A hard border is about imposing custom checks at border crossing points. No one has proposed building a wall along the length of the border between between NI and Eire.

A real concern is that border controls and in particular tarrifs will result in a smuggling 'industry' springing up. Organised crime has strong links with violent political organisations in that part of the world. Putting money into the hands of those fanatics coupled with turf wars can only be a huge risk of re-ignighting the troubles.

A hard border must be avoided.

 

[David756]

7 minutes ago, Homer said:

 

I don’t believe that is there technology that can x-ray the boot of a moving vehicle and check their passports simultaneously without them stopping and while also searching for drugs, guns etc.

 

i don’t personally have a problem with the border being down the Irish Sea - but obviously the DUP won’t swallow that. Is that what’s in the Canada plus plus deal do you reckon?

 

i agree that we are in a bad position re the negotiations - but we put ourselves in the position. We effectively shot ourselves in the foot then handed the EU the gun.

That’s why I meantioned not who. Can definitely track for guns and drugs in a moving vehicle, as said we use it in our estates to stop stuff coming in. 

Yeah essentially down the Irish Sea, also don’t see a problem with that, but say DUP. Canada deal is sweet though, essentially what we want. 

We did indeed, but now we either need to stand firm, or collapse, and doubt we will collapse. The thing is, if reports are led to be true and only 4 more letters have to go in to trigger a leadership contest, we could find ourselves with someone who just says no deal. It’s a fragile moment in recent history.

[HalfAnIdiot]

8 minutes ago, Homer said:

Yeah, I’m not saying all left wing comedy is funny. I’m saying most comedians are left wing.

 

i don’t find Simon Munnery very funny at all - but his Alan Parker character taking the piss out of lefty Billy Bragg types was hilarious.

All political standpoints should be ridiculed. It a healthy part of political debate and informs people trying to form their own political beliefs. 

I'll look up the Simon Munnery sketch.

Have you seen Billy Bragg s house BTW?

[HalfAnIdiot]

4 minutes ago, David756 said:

That’s why I meantioned not who. Can definitely track for guns and drugs in a moving vehicle, as said we use it in our estates to stop stuff coming in. 

Yeah essentially down the Irish Sea, also don’t see a problem with that, but say DUP. Canada deal is sweet though, essentially what we want. 

We did indeed, but now we either need to stand firm, or collapse, and doubt we will collapse. The thing is, if reports are led to be true and only 4 more letters have to go in to trigger a leadership contest, we could find ourselves with someone who just says no deal. It’s a fragile moment in recent history.

A border down the Irish Sea is unacceptable to far more than the members of the DUP. It would also introduce its own set of impractical issues. 

This is about access to the single market. The EU can't allow uncontrolled access as it breaks the fundamental principle of a single market. 

The question is what degree of control is acceptable.

The answer lies somewhere between zero tarrifs on everything made in UK and EU with blind trust that nothing will cross the boarder from outside UK and EU through to tariffs left right and centre and physical checks on everything.

The answer will be found it will be broadly self policing and will be build around that magic word 'trust'.

[Blisterpack]

1 hour ago, glastolover19 said:

Clearly enough people felt there was enough of a problem

That’s the problem with democracy. Idiots get as much say as people who know stuff. That’s why a referendum was such a bad idea and why Cameron is ultimately to blame for the clusterfuck that Brexit will be. 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

38 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

As I said earlier, thanks for the example. Looking into this quickly I see that the campaign against banning mobile phone roaming charges was led by the Greens and supported by Tim Berners-Lee.

What strange bed fellows!

The horseshoe theory in action!  

[glastolover19]

5 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

That’s the problem with democracy. Idiots get as much say as people who know stuff. That’s why a referendum was such a bad idea and why Cameron is ultimately to blame for the clusterfuck that Brexit will be. 

Yep anyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot,what a wonderful diverse society that would be

[sime]

3 hours ago, glastolover19 said:

I did my homework mate and if you think both sides were telling 100% the truth then your deluded. What you choose was right for you and what anyone else chose is what's right for them, frankly this seems to be the big problem(on both sides) everyone thinks they are right and if you don't agree then somehow your an idiot. I appreciate your upset it didn't go your way but that's life. I know it's not like trying on trousers but think we should embrace it and try and make the most of it

When have I actually said that both sides were telling the truth!? The only truth I believed was that of independent scientists and economic  experts with reasoned logic and unobjective views. Whose clear warnings are now actual realisms.

Regardless of how one voted, the whole thing is a mess and being handled terribly by a very enept government. And from what I hear, it will take about 50 years for this country to recover from the cliff we are about to fall off. If then. And can you tell me please what exactly we will be embracing? What deals? What logistics? What lifestyle changes? Etc... 

[David756]

11 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

That’s the problem with democracy. Idiots get as much say as people who know stuff. That’s why a referendum was such a bad idea and why Cameron is ultimately to blame for the clusterfuck that Brexit will be. 

??

[glastolover19]

2 minutes ago, sime said:

When have I actually said that both sides were telling the truth!? The only truth I believed was that of independent scientists and economic  experts with reasoned logic and unobjective views. Whose clear warnings are now actual realisms.

Regardless of how one voted, the whole thing is a mess and being handled terribly by a very enept government. And from what I hear, it will take about 50 years for this country to recover from the cliff we are about to fall off. If then. And can you tell me please what exactly we will be embracing? What deals? What logistics? What lifestyle changes? Etc... 

No you haven't explicitly said it but you have clearly implied that the leavers are all liars.

As you said yourself "from what I hear" you don't really know what is going to actually happen,until it's all said and done you don't actually know it's as bad as you have been told,God forbid anyone's made a prediction and been proved wrong later. You embrace what is presented to you as the final deal(admittedly it's a cluster f at the moment) and make the most of it. Sorry whatever way you look at it more people voted out then in

[Blisterpack]

10 minutes ago, glastolover19 said:

Yep anyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot,what a wonderful diverse society that would be

Most people would vote to bring back hanging. And the fucking birch. For that reason we don’t ask them. 

[glastolover19]

2 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Most people would vote to bring back hanging. And the fucking birch. For that reason we don’t ask them. 

I think you're find most people aren't as thick as you try to make them out to be,just because they don't agree with you doesn't make them wrong or you right

[sime]

1 minute ago, glastolover19 said:

No you haven't explicitly said it but you have clearly implied that the leavers are all liars.

As you said yourself "from what I hear" you don't really know what is going to actually happen,until it's all said and done you don't actually know it's as bad as you have been told,God forbid anyone's made a prediction and been proved wrong later. You embrace what is presented to you as the final deal(admittedly it's a cluster f at the moment) and make the most of it. Sorry whatever way you look at it more people voted out then in

No. I haven't implied that all leavers are liars. At all... The leave campaign, yes. The voters, no.

 

What I have heard, from experts in their fields, not politicians or lay men is that it will take a very long time for the economy, society etc to rebalance itself should we leave the EU. A very long time.

 

One does not just 'embrace' a deal if it is a bad one. Currently no deal has been made to embrace. Embracing something unknown of this magnitude is ridiculous.

The leave side won in large part due to the out right lies spewed out by the leave campaign. Leave voters I know made their final decision based on those lies and now bitterly regret them...

[Homer]

1 hour ago, Blisterpack said:

Most people would vote to bring back hanging. And the fucking birch. For that reason we don’t ask them. 

Brexiters love a bit of hanging and corporal punishment according to this hilarious survey!

Half of Leave voters want to bring back the death penalty after Brexit

 

And 30 per cent of Leave voters want the notorious and energy inefficient incandescent light bulbs back

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-leave-voters-death-penalty-yougov-results-light-bulbs-a7656791.html

[David756]

7 minutes ago, Homer said:

Brexiters love a bit of hanging and corporal punishment according to this hilarious survey!

Half of Leave voters want to bring back the death penalty after Brexit

 

And 30 per cent of Leave voters want the notorious and energy inefficient incandescent light bulbs back

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-leave-voters-death-penalty-yougov-results-light-bulbs-a7656791.html

Tbh, the new lightbulbs are crap ?

Anyway Brexit about to get interesting tonight. Stay tuned!!!

[glastolover19]

3 minutes ago, sime said:

No. I haven't implied that all leavers are liars. At all... The leave campaign, yes. The voters, no.

Ok gullible fools then

What I have heard, from experts in their fields, not politicians or lay men is that it will take a very long time for the economy, society etc to rebalance itself should we leave the EU. A very long time.

but don't actually know till happens

One does not just 'embrace' a deal if it is a bad one. Currently no deal has been made to embrace. Embracing something unknown of this magnitude is ridiculous.

That's why I said when the final deal is on the table to try and embrace it

The leave side won in large part due to the out right lies spewed out by the leave campaign. Leave voters I know made their final decision based on those lies and now bitterly regret them...

Idiots then?

 

[Homer]

1 hour ago, David756 said:

That’s why I meantioned not who. Can definitely track for guns and drugs in a moving vehicle, as said we use it in our estates to stop stuff coming in. 

Yeah essentially down the Irish Sea, also don’t see a problem with that, but say DUP. Canada deal is sweet though, essentially what we want. 

We did indeed, but now we either need to stand firm, or collapse, and doubt we will collapse. The thing is, if reports are led to be true and only 4 more letters have to go in to trigger a leadership contest, we could find ourselves with someone who just says no deal. It’s a fragile moment in recent history.

 

There is no precedent for a border of this kind that is not hard anywhere in the world. They require stops and checks, and a physical border.

Ta for the update, am a bit behind as only just got back from eight days in Malta.

You're right. As much as I think this is a horrendous mistake, it is also a fascinating time as I don't know anyone who can say how this can/will be resolved. No one has the numbers to put anything through or will do soon.

So what does everyone predict? The best I can guess at is the closer we get to March that it brings down the Tory government (failing that there will at last be a leadership battle at least surely?). Then we have a general election. Labour wins yet another minority government... and what then?
 

Anyone got any ideas?!

[Alex DeLarge]

I was willing to give Brexit a chance, how bad could it be? I thought, until the very next day when Farage announced the £350 million was a lie.

The very next day after the referendum.

Can you imagine any political party dropping their manifesto pledge after one day? They’d get crucified in the press (well, the Tories wouldnt).

[Homer]

1 hour ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

All political standpoints should be ridiculed. It a healthy part of political debate and informs people trying to form their own political beliefs. 

I'll look up the Simon Munnery sketch.

Have you seen Billy Bragg s house BTW?

 

Yeah, it's just that some right wing people (not the nice ones on here) seem a bit joyless and like they want to be offended almost. I thought the stupid London balloon thing illustrated this really well. When the Trump balloon went up, loads of right-wingers were up in arms saying 'they wouldn't let us fly one of Khan'. When they flew the Khan one, no one on the left gave a sh1t. Right and left are generally wired differently mentally.

 

No... is it really big by any chance? I found him quite annoying TBH!

[Rose-Colored Boy]

Tbf, the Torys did get absolutely destroyed by the press in the 2017 election for panicking and abandoning a controversial pledge. Maybe that was a lesson learnt, or a new standard set post-Brexit ref.

[sime]

2 minutes ago, glastolover19 said:

 

No. Not gulliable fools. We all fall for lies from time to time. I would have preferred they researched more but lots didn't. To repeat myself, I blame in the first instance, the leave campaign.

 

The experts know, based on their well studied analysis what will happen in certain scenarios. Which is why a large number of businesses are already planning to leave the UK. That's an expensive logistical nightmare for them but they want out of this shit storm to save their companies. They would not consider this based on fear alone.

So if the final deal is no deal, would you embrace that!? You must have some idea by now of what a disaster a no deal would be.

 

Those leave voters I know were duped. Not idiots. Just good, honest people on the fence trying to make the correct decision. And they are not happy that their decision was based on lies. They themselves may feel stupid. I just wish they had looked into it more rather than just listen to politicians. I feel for them...