Don't vote Tory

[ghostdancer1]

9 minutes ago, Anders Krogh said:

Ashamed to admit I never knew the Loyalist terrorists existed. From Denmark and it was never reported on (as far as I know), only ever heard about IRA.

Loyalist terrorists and the British Security Forces killed more civilians during The Troubles (1088) than the IRA and all other Republican terrorist groups combined (727). The Provisional IRA alone were responsible for 512 of those civilians deaths.

It has been proven numerous times that British security services acted with and aided Loyalist groups, and turned a blind eye to actions committed by them, including murder.

Unfortunately the british government and security services have long refused to investigate many incidents in which collusion is heavily suspected to have occurred.

of course, it's not in the British media/public interest to bring these things up because they mostly happen "over there" in Ireland and the vast majority of britiain would prefer to bury its head in the sand when it comes to Northern Ireland.

which is kind of why it's funny about so many people learning today how repulsive the DUP are, and their MPs who have been sitting in the UK Parliament unnoticed.

Edited June 9, 2017 by ghostdancer1

[Anders Krogh]

Thanks for the info. Crazy...

[Zoo Music Girl]

18 minutes ago, ghostdancer1 said:

not true at all.
the vast majority of Loyalist terrorist killings were of ordinary civilians.

of the 1016 deaths they committed:

868 Civilians
14 British Security service members
41 Republican paramilitaries
93 Loyalist paramilitaries

Loyalists killed more civlians during the Troubles than anyone else, including the IRA.

 

Excuse my ignorance and this is a genuine question as I don't know anywhere near enough about it, but what was the motivation/rationale for loyalists killing British civilians? Because they felt the British government wasn't doing enough and wanted to make a statement?

On a side note the more I read about the DUP the worse I feel about this result. Still pleased to have a more robust opposition on the left though.

[ghostdancer1]

9 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Excuse my ignorance and this is a genuine question as I don't know anywhere near enough about it, but what was the motivation/rationale for loyalists killing British civilians? Because they felt the British government wasn't doing enough and wanted to make a statement?

On a side note the more I read about the DUP the worse I feel about this result. Still pleased to have a more robust opposition on the left though.

loyalist paramilitaries were very badly organised. they weren't as well trained or have intelligence gathering operations and plans like the IRA, nor much of a goal really, so they would often just drive to a Republican/Nationalist areas and murder someone, or open fire in a bar, or something completely indiscriminate, often in retaliation for some Republican incident. it didn't matter if the Republican incident killed a British soldier or a civlian, if the Loaylists killed some Catholics 2 nights later then that was often good enough for them.

one of their favourites was to ring a taxi cab company from a Nationalist area, and as the taxi man would usually be Catholic, murder them after being picked up.

lots of Loyalists group members were nothing other than criminals and pyschos who happened to come from Loyalist/Unionist areas. people like The Shankill Butchers were nothing more than savages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shankill_Butchers

e: not that there wasn't pyschos and criminals in the Republican groups, but from the figures from Provisional IRA deaths, it's clear there was more of a plan/goal involved, than just randomly killing civilians:

1711 deaths:
512 Civilians
1012 British Security Forces
141 Republican paramilitaries
39 Loyalist Paramiltaries
7 Irish security forces

Edited June 9, 2017 by ghostdancer1

[Zoo Music Girl]

12 minutes ago, ghostdancer1 said:

loyalist paramilitaries were very badly organised. they weren't as well trained or have intelligence gathering operations and plans like the IRA, nor much of a goal really, so they would often just drive to a Republican/Nationalist areas and murder someone, or open fire in a bar, or something completely indiscriminate, often in retaliation for some Republican incident. it didn't matter if the Republican incident killed a British soldier or a civlian, if the Loaylists killed some Catholics 2 nights later then that was often good enough for them.

one of their favourites was to ring a taxi cab company from a Nationalist area, and as the taxi man would usually be Catholic, murder them after being picked up.

lots of Loyalists group members were nothing other than criminals and pyschos who happened to come from Loyalist/Unionist areas. people like The Shankill Butchers were nothing more than savages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shankill_Butchers

e: not that there wasn't pyschos and criminals in the Republican groups, but from the figures from Provisional IRA deaths, it's clear there was more of a plan/goal involved, than just randomly killing civilians:

1711 deaths:
512 Civilians
1012 British Security Forces
141 Republican paramilitaries
39 Loyalist Paramiltaries
7 Irish security forces

Cheers for the info. Much appreciated.

[Anders Krogh]

Ditto, very interesting will read up

[bamber]

49 minutes ago, ghostdancer1 said:

loyalist paramilitaries were very badly organised. they weren't as well trained or have intelligence gathering operations and plans like the IRA, nor much of a goal really, so they would often just drive to a Republican/Nationalist areas and murder someone, or open fire in a bar, or something completely indiscriminate, often in retaliation for some Republican incident. it didn't matter if the Republican incident killed a British soldier or a civlian, if the Loaylists killed some Catholics 2 nights later then that was often good enough for them.

one of their favourites was to ring a taxi cab company from a Nationalist area, and as the taxi man would usually be Catholic, murder them after being picked up.

lots of Loyalists group members were nothing other than criminals and pyschos who happened to come from Loyalist/Unionist areas. people like The Shankill Butchers were nothing more than savages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shankill_Butchers

e: not that there wasn't pyschos and criminals in the Republican groups, but from the figures from Provisional IRA deaths, it's clear there was more of a plan/goal involved, than just randomly killing civilians:

1711 deaths:
512 Civilians
1012 British Security Forces
141 Republican paramilitaries
39 Loyalist Paramiltaries
7 Irish security forces

Outstanding summary.

The slurs that were directed at Corbyn this week by the popular UK newspapers were frankly criminally obscene.

Those of us who are rightly repulsed by what we saw this week need to collectivity unite against this. We must coordinate a sustained effort to bring those responsible to justice. This must not stand.

7/6/2017

I work at one of the large UK universities and one the the students stood next to me at the News Stand last Wednesday morning declared that this was "The worst headline I've ever seen" No doubt he was right.

This sort of overkill, helped Corbyn massively in the end for sure. The days of press power are over. Let us hasten their demise with a massive public surge of opinion in favour of prosecuting the illegal actions (in an election period you cannot legally make false allegations ) that have clearly been perpetrated here.

[Spindles]

Never enough upvotes in a day.

[bamber]

10 minutes ago, bamber said:

Outstanding summary.

The slurs that were directed at Corbyn this week by the popular UK newspapers were frankly criminally obscene.

Those of us who are rightly repulsed by what we saw this week need to collectivity unite against this. We must coordinate a sustained effort to bring those responsible to justice. This must not stand.

7/6/2017

I work at one of the large UK universities and one the the students stood next to me at the News Stand last Wednesday morning declared that this was "The worst headline I've ever seen" No doubt he was right.

This sort of overkill, helped Corbyn massively in the end for sure. The days of press power are over. Let us hasten their demise with a massive public surge of opinion in favour of prosecuting the illegal actions (in an election period you cannot legally make false allegations ) that have clearly been perpetrated here.

Unashamed Bump for new page.

[Cuzzy]

Can't help feeling if the yoof turned out for the brexit vote like they did yesterday then it's possible that we'd be chatting about something completely different 

[Spindles]

[bamber]

3 minutes ago, Cuzzy said:

Can't help feeling if the yoof turned out for the brexit vote like they did yesterday then it's possible that we'd be chatting about something completely different 

Indeed.

[Mouseboy11]

Sinn Fein claiming a DUP coalition with the Tories would break the terms of the Good Friday agreement..where would that leave us?

[bamber]

2 minutes ago, Mouseboy11 said:

Sinn Fein claiming a DUP coalition with the Tories would break the terms of the Good Friday agreement..where would that leave us?

They are probably right. I'm like Corbyn, I never supported the ways and methods of the IRA, but I always supported the Sinn Fein manifesto. Ireland should be one nation, the English/Unionists have no right to be there. Let it go.

[waterfalls212434]

Don't fear, they won't last. They need support of others to make it work and they won't get it esp not with the dup involved. Corbyn will put his case to the queen also asap when the details of any progressive alliance are worked out and it'll look a lot more attractive. The queen must realise that when she makes a decision. The dup represent a tiny number of people numbers wise and that's spread over 10 seats. The greens for example have just 1 seat and they represent more then that let alone with the lib Dems and snp included as well., Even hearing rumours sinn fein may finally take their seats in the hoc because of the dups involvement. Her list of allies is growing thin.

If and even if the Tories manage to ride that one out they can't possibly govern with such a small majority. The right thing to do would have been to step aside, if she still had a mandate from the people she'd have got another majority. Now it's more about me me me then what's good for the country and what the people want sadly.

[Homer]

11 hours ago, Eyebrow said:

I'm so proud of this city! Especially the younger generation who came out and voted their asses off!

Fuck you Brazier! Canterbury is RED for the first time ever. History made!

 

 

My home town went 4/4. I love Bristol!

Edited June 10, 2017 by Homer

[The Nal]

8 hours ago, bamber said:

They are probably right. I'm like Corbyn, I never supported the ways and methods of the IRA, but I always supported the Sinn Fein manifesto. Ireland should be one nation, the English/Unionists have no right to be there. Let it go.

Would have to have a referendum first. North and south. Id vote no. Dont want the DUP or more Sinn Fein near Dublin. Theyre all c**ts.

This DUP thing is worrying on a lot of levels though. She should really know better than stirring the pot. Its an angry part of the world.

Edited June 10, 2017 by The Nal

[Swieve]

8 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Would have to have a referendum first. North and south. Id vote no. Dont want the DUP or more Sinn Fein near Dublin. Theyre all c**ts.

This DUP thing is worrying on a lot of levels though. She should really know better than stirring the pot. Its an angry part of the world.

And the majority in Northern Ireland would also say no.  Neither government will want to force it.  They should just get back to the uneasy peace and govern together.  Dual nationality and all that goes with it. Do this for long enough and it will sort itself out over a period of generations as the hatred/division is bred out.  There has been a wonderful change up here over the past 20 years and the younger people care less and less about this sort of thing  

[The Nal]

3 minutes ago, Swieve said:

And the majority in Northern Ireland would also say no.  Neither government will want to force it.  They should just get back to the uneasy peace and govern together.  Dual nationality and all that goes with it. Do this for long enough and it will sort itself out over a period of generations as the hatred/division is bred out.  There has been a wonderful change up here over the past 20 years and the younger people care less and less about this sort of thing  

Yep agree 100%. But theres still an undercurrent there that you aluded too. All going well at the moment so no need to rock the boat.

What the fuck is she thinking?

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 hour ago, waterfalls212434 said:

Don't fear, they won't last. They need support of others to make it work and they won't get it esp not with the dup involved. Corbyn will put his case to the queen also asap when the details of any progressive alliance are worked out and it'll look a lot more attractive. The queen must realise that when she makes a decision. The dup represent a tiny number of people numbers wise and that's spread over 10 seats. The greens for example have just 1 seat and they represent more then that let alone with the lib Dems and snp included as well., Even hearing rumours sinn fein may finally take their seats in the hoc because of the dups involvement. Her list of allies is growing thin.

If and even if the Tories manage to ride that one out they can't possibly govern with such a small majority. The right thing to do would have been to step aside, if she still had a mandate from the people she'd have got another majority. Now it's more about me me me then what's good for the country and what the people want sadly.

Hate to say it but I would be amazed if any of the above happens. I think we're stuck with Tory/DUP for as long as it is tenable. And I think May will stay for a good few months as they won't want to rock the boat even more for a bit.

[frostypaw]

Should be interesting considering this poster from 2010

[strummer77]

9 hours ago, Cuzzy said:

Can't help feeling if the yoof turned out for the brexit vote like they did yesterday then it's possible that we'd be chatting about something completely different 

Yep but the EU campaign didn't inspire them and that's not their fault. I voted remain but the campaigns argument was pretty much 'keep with the status quo, leaving will be shit'. It was faced by bland blairite/career politician sorts and didn't offer any real form of hope. Brexit did somehow offer hope to people, even if it was built on bullshit.

I think we can see across the world really that people are rejecting the idea that things have to be this way. The search for some sort of change, some sort of hope, has unfortunately come out in movements like Trump/Leave but it's great to see Corbyn channeling it positively right now. 

Edited June 10, 2017 by strummer77

[stuartbert two hats]

50 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Yep agree 100%. But theres still an undercurrent there that you aluded too. All going well at the moment so no need to rock the boat.

What the fuck is she thinking?

Of her own skin.

[fatyeti24]

1 hour ago, waterfalls212434 said:

Don't fear, they won't last. They need support of others to make it work and they won't get it esp not with the dup involved. Corbyn will put his case to the queen also asap when the details of any progressive alliance are worked out and it'll look a lot more attractive. The queen must realise that when she makes a decision. The dup represent a tiny number of people numbers wise and that's spread over 10 seats. The greens for example have just 1 seat and they represent more then that let alone with the lib Dems and snp included as well., Even hearing rumours sinn fein may finally take their seats in the hoc because of the dups involvement. Her list of allies is growing thin.

If and even if the Tories manage to ride that one out they can't possibly govern with such a small majority. The right thing to do would have been to step aside, if she still had a mandate from the people she'd have got another majority. Now it's more about me me me then what's good for the country and what the people want sadly.

 The queen doesn't make a decision.   She's not political. The whole business about 'asking her' is just a bit of tradition. 

We'll have another general election before Corbyn can do anything, because he can't come up with any sort of alliance that will give him the majority needed to rule. 

Edited June 10, 2017 by fatyeti24

[amfy]

9 minutes ago, fatyeti24 said:

 The queen doesn't make a decision.   She's not political. The whole business about 'asking her' is just a bit of tradition. 

We'll have another general election before Corbyn can do anything, because he can't come up with any sort of alliance that will give him the majority needed to rule. 

Although it would be hilarious for May to come back and say 'The Queen said No'

....and probably pretty ironic if the basis of the decision would be The Queen supporting fairness to Loyalists.