Don't vote Tory

[Ommadawn]

5 minutes ago, jobleakley1 said:

You miss the point totally. We are here because our foreign policy of doing whatever America wants us to do over the past 35 years has left large parts of the world without effective government, bred resentment at our bombing of innocent people and in a large part has led to the rise of IS and others.

Pretty much agree with all of this but I'm not sure it would have stopped us becoming a target though.

[jobleakley1]

Oh and by the way guess how they voted for the following:

                                                       Corbyn               May

Bankers bonus tax                         For                      Against 

Bedroom tax                                   Against               For

Increasing top rate of tax                For                      Against

Mansion tax                                     For                      Against 

Raising tuition fees                          Against                 For

Raising welfare in line with prices    For                        Against

Reducing corporation tax                 Against                For

Reducing welfare                              Against                 For

Restricting legal aid                           Against                For

VAT increases.                                   Against.               For

[jobleakley1]

For the few not the many, that is Tory policy.

I would be better off under the stories as I'm paying 40% tax, the threshold of which they pledge to increase to £50,000 by the end of the next parliament.

Id rather they left the threshold where it is and raised the tax free threshold to something nearer £20,000. That will boost the economy massively as people will spend the extra money on goods and services.

 

 

[Ommadawn]

3 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Why do you think the IRA aren't still bombing Manchester? Force alone won't get you peace, especially not from terrorists.

Trying to talk to the IRA at the height of the Troubles wouldn't have made the slightest difference. Eventually both sides agreed to a settlement that both could call an 'honorable draw' mainly because the IRA had been infiltrated by the security forces.

[Spindles]

30 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

I'd love to see the evidence that thousands of people have been killed by Tory policies. 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/27/thousands-died-after-fit-for-work-assessment-dwp-figures

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/government-withheld-disabled-death-reports-from-watchdog-a7500731.html

http://www.centreforwelfarereform.org/uploads/attachment/456/work-capability-assessment-deaths-and-suicides.pdf

Just a few quick hits on a google search, there is literally a tonne of information and discussion on the subject, I'm surprised to hear you haven't heard it being shouted from the rooftops because it has certainly been a topic of frequent discussion over the last few years after the DWP fought to keep the figures from being published.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Spindles

[Ommadawn]

9 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

All I'm saying is that if you decide to that, and declare as much publicly, you have to understand why some people would take great affront to that. Because "I'll lose my business" is not equatable with "I'll lose my (rented) house". And if you try and equate the two, yes some people will get pissed off and angry about it because you already have so much compared to what they have. And I think you do get to have all that, and you get to campaign and vote to keep it. But the flip side of that is that if you venture outside of your bubble to "where the other half live" you might get shouted at occasionally.

And how about their employees who will lose their houses if they can't get another job as a result of that business going bust? How about people who rent their houses who are possibly going have face large rent increases as a result of the 'Garden Tax' which being mooted. I get pretty angry when I think of the possible implications of Corbyn's policies for those people.

[Ommadawn]

5 minutes ago, Spindles said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/27/thousands-died-after-fit-for-work-assessment-dwp-figures

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/government-withheld-disabled-death-reports-from-watchdog-a7500731.html

http://www.centreforwelfarereform.org/uploads/attachment/456/work-capability-assessment-deaths-and-suicides.pdf

Just a few quick hits on a google search, there is literally a tonne of information and discussion on the subject, I'm surprised to hear you haven't heard it being shouted from the rooftops because it has certainly been a topic of frequent discussion over the last few years after the DWP fought to keep the figures from being published.

But nothing from Labour in this election (unless I missed it). I would have thought thousands of deaths being caused by the Tories would have been a vote winner. 

[priest17]

May has surely lost the wheat farmers vote now, surely it's all over.

[Levitz]

12 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

And how about their employees who will lose their houses if they can't get another job as a result of that business going bust? How about people who rent their houses who are possibly going have face large rent increases as a result of the 'Garden Tax' which being mooted. I get pretty angry when I think of the possible implications of Corbyn's policies for those people.

The manifesto just says they would review council tax and business rates and look at the possibility of replacing them with other options such as a land value tax. Why would it cause all rents to increase? Renters have to pay CT as it is, it would be replaced.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Levitz

[sdvruxk]

Has anyone in this thread changed their opinion of something as a result of the discussion which has happened in here? 

[jobleakley1]

19 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

And how about their employees who will lose their houses if they can't get another job as a result of that business going bust? How about people who rent their houses who are possibly going have face large rent increases as a result of the 'Garden Tax' which being mooted. I get pretty angry when I think of the possible implications of Corbyn's policies for those people.

There is no garden tax being suggested. Stop scaremongering.

If labour are in power the people at the bottom with nothing will be looked after, the Tories are only interested in cutting tax for the rich and large businesses.

May is a pretty horrible leader pretending to give a toss about the poorer people in society.

The dementia tax is a prime example of that. I wonder how big the cap will be? Of course she can't tell us because she came up with it after realising how bad a policy it is.

Hunt wants to continue to destroy the NHS and of course she loves grammar schools which are great if you gave the money to pay for extra tuition for your kids, but not so great for the majority who can't.

Thatcher only snatched children's milk, May us literally taking the food out of children's mouths. I cannot believe that she is getting away with this.

Oh and she called the election so that she could argue that Corbyn can't negotiate our exit from the EU because the negotiations start 11 days after the election. She chose the date!!!!

People need to wake up and stop believing the lies perpetrated by the Tory press and look at what she will do to this country.

She is a nasty leader of a very nasty party.

Id rather have call me Dave back and he is another privileged Tory leader.

 

[zahidf]

 

 

[jobleakley1]

Wow, a new low in our gutter press.

 

[Levitz]

It's extraordinary. Elections dictated by offshore vested interests. .

Edited June 6, 2017 by Levitz

[jobleakley1]

But the sheep just lap it up.

The labour manifesto is less left wing than the policies of Merkel and Macron, but these rags would make you believe that we would be living in communist USSR.

[jobleakley1]

Look up "Its a big club and you ain't in it" by George Carlin an American comedian who sums it up perfectly.

[Mr.Tease]

7 hours ago, Levitz said:

Human rights on the bonfire to cover her arse. Fantastic. Rampant authoritarianism and incompetence just what we need. 

Ionger jail sentences sure will help deter suicide bombers! That'll make them think twice

[SighMo]

She's learning from Trump. By using the changing Human Rights she's appealing to her base supporters...I think this will see her across the line.

[Mr.Tease]

Quite surprising to see Blairite (and scathing Corbyn critic) John McTernan say on newsnight that corbyns appeal is too deep and wide to be ignored. Focus group was also favourable to Corbyn over May, which is a huge shift compared to the one when he first became leader. Probably too late now, unfortunately, we're out of time. 

I do think in a few years some of the media will look back and question their coverage of when he got elected, it was completely disproportionate.

Reading aaround there seems to have been a marked upswing in tory party sources confidence, and a downswing in Corbyn supporting journalists, so can only assume their extra info isn't looking good for Labour.

We really need an unprecedented turnout of labour voters and young people- I do hope people vote and encourage fellow Labour voters to do so

[Mr.Tease]

6 minutes ago, SighMo said:

She's learning from Trump. By using the changing Human Rights she's appealing to her base supporters...I think this will see her across the line.

I think it was Stewart Lee who said there's a huge swaythe of people who confuse health and safety legislation with political correctness - I think it's the same case with human rights! 

[Mr.Tease]

I've found it interesting that Labour's immigration policy seems to have been roughly deemed acceptable - haven't heard to many complaints about it and some pollsters have found half of UKIP supporters switching to Labour (others have found less) . Didn't expect that, but it's encouraging going forward. 

[russycarps]

13 hours ago, eFestivals said:

well, to be fair-ish, some of how it's panned out in the UK is a consequence of how Billy Conqueror said he owned all the land, and then gave bits to his mates. That was always going to cause large tracts in the ownership of a few individuals.

But the enclosures and the clearances were something else, where people were driven off the land they depended on for their very survival so those greedy families could have even more. Today, 60% of England's land is owned by those same Norman families, who've never done a day's work in a thousand years.

Yes and Norman = North Men.

Our land of the the free is largely still owned by Vikings a thousand years later!

How many other countries in the world are still dominated to this extent by their thousand-year old conquerors I wonder?

And yet, there is still no appetite for land reform among the masses. A nation of serfs.

[Ommadawn]

9 hours ago, DeanoL said:

That's the point. If politics isn't an emotional issue for you, it's because you're privileged enough for it not to be that way. I have some friends of friends who are in dire straits if the Tories get back in but I'm removed enough from it that I can debate (mostly) civilly in here. But I completely get why some people can't do that. And I think it's important to acknowledge that.

Study linking 30,000 deaths in NHS to Tory policies: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/nhs-cuts-excess-deaths-30000-study-research-royal-society-medicine-london-school-hygiene-martin-a7585001.html

Study linking 1000s of deaths to Tory fit-to-work policies: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/27/thousands-died-after-fit-for-work-assessment-dwp-figures

Sorry DeanoL - I don't have to read through it all now but I did scan through the first link. The quoted figure of 30,000 excess deaths as a result of of NHS cuts doesn't really stand up when apparently it reduced by 20,000 the very next year. It sounds like there's other factors at work here.

I will read them thoroughly when I have more time. 

Edited June 7, 2017 by Ommadawn

[Ommadawn]

1 hour ago, Mr.Tease said:

I've found it interesting that Labour's immigration policy seems to have been roughly deemed acceptable - haven't heard to many complaints about it and some pollsters have found half of UKIP supporters switching to Labour (others have found less) . Didn't expect that, but it's encouraging going forward. 

That could be because it's barely been discussed. Like a lot of the Labour manifesto, it falls apart when scrutinised in any depth. Why do you think Diane Abbott has such trouble explaining policy.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Ommadawn

[Mr.Tease]

12 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

That could be because it's barely been discussed. Like a lot of the Labour manifesto, it falls apart when scrutinised in any depth. Why do you think Diane Abbott has such trouble explaining policy.

Says the person voting Tory