Liam Fray slams classist snobs who criticise northern fans

[bamber]

5 minutes ago, eastynh said:

In todays climate, there is absolutely no reason for a band not to break through without the need for what you would call home town support. The internet enables groups to get their music heard without go betweens in the media casting their approval on it first.

Yet that has not always been the case. Up until about the time of Oasis, bands built a local support by playing local gigs, word would spread and support grew. Then maybe a few plays of early tunes on local radio, followed by getting the local paper on board in support. By the time the national media would spare a few column inches, bands could have massive local support and be building a lot of hype. The Stone Roses were a perfect example of this. No one paid any attention to them for years outside Manchester (and for a time inside Manchester). Yet through local support and, quality tunes and a huge slice of luck they have ended up huge.

It shocks me a little how people on here seem so against and bewildered by. home team support. To an extent I can understand it with younger contributors to the forum but for people from my generation it is a bit strange to say the least.

In a way I understand what Liam Fray  is saying. Take this forum as an example. Over the last few years I have noticed an awful lot of derogatory comments about bands in north just because of where they originate from. Not once have I read any similar comments regarding bands in the south. For me personally I have had a lot of banter directed towards me because I am quite knowledgeable about the bands I grew up with and have posted about them quite a lot on here. The ironic thing is that I have one of the biggest and varied record collections on this forum and in regards to 95% of it, I have no idea who even made the records or where they came from.

As for The Courteeners, I have no particular affinity  for their brand of guitar pop. Yet I do not sneer or look down my nose at them getting huge crowds. I think fair play to all the people who have gone out to enjoy themselves.

Now there  is a little part of us deep inside that is a bit snobbish. Forums like this would not exist if we weren't. Sometimes though people are just far too blinkered though and set in their ways. Behaviour like that is not healthy.

Edit- Just to say, Madchester seems to take a lot of shit these days but lets just remember that was an invention of the southern based media who did not have a fucking clue at what was going on. That was a perfect example of the point Liam Fray is trying to make.

Personally it is my belief that all analytic ripostes on this mater are horse shit.

Quality is all that matters. If you identify as Northern or Southern or Welsh or Scottish. or..., then you are no better than any other nationalistic tribe. Nationalism is poison. And more generally there is very little to fault on this forum by the way, freedom of speech and all that. Cock and Balls.

[CaledonianGonzo]

7 minutes ago, eastynh said:

Mate I am not going to go through posts and threads looking for comments. You can go search yourself. Go check Courtneeners threads for comments about their crowds. Have a look at ones about James, go look at threads about other stage opener and the shitty northern has been opener set, comments about the Manchester uniform of Pretty Green even though no one actually wears Pretty Green. How often have we seen the Kevin and Perry sketch posted over the years?? Then have a look at comments directed towards myself over the past 2 years which I take in good humour as I find funny. 

As someone who's laid into that slot and those bands time and time again, I'd like it noted for the record that it's nothing to do with the fact that they're from North (south of here, by the by).  If there was a neverending parade of drab indie landfill coming at us out of the Scilly Isles it'd be copping the same amount of flack.

[russycarps]

7 minutes ago, eastynh said:

Mate I am not going to go through posts and threads looking for comments. You can go search yourself. Go check Courtneeners threads for comments about their crowds. Have a look at ones about James, go look at threads about other stage opener and the shitty northern has been opener set, comments about the Manchester uniform of Pretty Green even though no one actually wears Pretty Green. How often have we seen the Kevin and Perry sketch posted over the years?? Then have a look at comments directed towards myself over the past 2 years which I take in good humour as I find funny. 

apart from some anti-liverpool stuff a couple of years back which saw the culprits banned I've never seen anything like you describe, apart from the jokes towards your good self, which are always said (and taken) in good spirit I'm sure.

I just dont think this forum is a nasty place in any shape or form, and I certainly dont think there's a regional bias

 

[eastynh]

8 minutes ago, bamber said:

Personally it is my belief that all analytic ripostes on this mater are horse shit.

Quality is all that matters. If you identify as Northern or Southern or Welsh or Scottish. or..., then you are no better than any other nationalistic tribe. Nationalism is poison. And more generally there is very little to fault on this forum by the way, freedom of speech and all that. Cock and Balls.

I agree entirely. Yet surely you can understand why people do like like local bands? It comes down to what they were exposed to. It is easy to say quality counts and breaks through in the 21st century when we have access to everyting via the web, but that has not always been the case. Don't forget top of the pops would be the 1st time people would see a band. By that time bands could have huge local followings. People judge things on how circumstances are now, not how life was at a particular time.

In regards to the Courteeners, I put their support down to people just wanting to go out and have a good time. The concerts outsell their record sales.

[bamber]

1 minute ago, eastynh said:

I agree entirely. Yet surely you can understand why people do like like local bands? It comes down to what they were exposed to. It is easy to say quality counts and breaks through in the 21st century when we have access to everyting via the web, but that has not always been the case. Don't forget top of the pops would be the 1st time people would see a band. By that time bands could have huge local followings. People judge things on how circumstances are now, not how life was at a particular time.

In regards to the Courteeners, I put their support down to people just wanting to go out and have a good time. The concerts outsell their record sales.

I'm from Wales but grew up listening to music from Jamaica and Chicago. I did once snog Ceris Mathews though....

[russycarps]

1 minute ago, bamber said:

. I did once snog Ceris Mathews though....

wait WHAT?

[bamber]

2 minutes ago, russycarps said:

wait WHAT?

Cinderellas in Mumbles circa 1982

[eastynh]

7 minutes ago, russycarps said:

apart from some anti-liverpool stuff a couple of years back which saw the culprits banned I've never seen anything like you describe, apart from the jokes towards your good self, which are always said (and taken) in good spirit I'm sure.

I just dont think this forum is a nasty place in any shape or form, and I certainly dont think there's a regional bias

 

Mate it is not a nasty place at all and I give out as good as I get. I am going to lose any sleep over it all. It is generally good banter. You get the odd fool posting pictures of Donald Trump while totally missing the point, but what can I do about that? I was just trying to use this forum as an example where there has been on occasions, examples of what Liam Fray has said. It is not the end of the world but if there is a quite extensive thread on a forum that I contribute a lot to, then I am surely going to comment on it. 

I was just trying to add some perspective to what Liam Fray said. There is no shame in people liking local bands and there were/are actually quite valid reasons for it. Morrisey could not have worded it any better "The music that they constantly play, says nothing to me about my life"

Is it any shock that when a band sings about things that resonate with your life that you connect with them?

Now in short I kind of understand what Liam Fray is saying but it is hardly the end of the world. The funny thing is Depeche Mode have been saying similar for years in regards to their support at home yet that is never mentioned on here. 

[bamber]

1 minute ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

She'd have been 12 or 13. I really hope you're not much older than 49 now!!!!!

OK it was mid eighties then (it was a long time ago, we were both very young), She's a couple of years younger than me. It was all legit

[eastynh]

37 minutes ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

I have two 10" records as well as some 7" and 12" ones so mine is more varied than yours already.

I forgot about the 10" so I dug out a stone cold classic for you :-D

[russycarps]

11 minutes ago, bamber said:

Cinderellas in Mumbles circa 1982

she was 13!

 

 

[eastynh]

Sorry @CaledonianGonzo, should not have called you a fool. You missed the point I was trying to make in regards to the record collection and I bit. Donald Trump is a total cvnt. I would have rather you called me a deluded and thick northern oink that compared me to that tool.

Edited November 4, 2016 by eastynh

[russycarps]

15 minutes ago, eastynh said:

Mate it is not a nasty place at all and I give out as good as I get. I am going to lose any sleep over it all. It is generally good banter. You get the odd fool posting pictures of Donald Trump while totally missing the point, but what can I do about that? I was just trying to use this forum as an example where there has been on occasions, examples of what Liam Fray has said. It is not the end of the world but if there is a quite extensive thread on a forum that I contribute a lot to, then I am surely going to comment on it. 

I was just trying to add some perspective to what Liam Fray said. There is no shame in people liking local bands and there were/are actually quite valid reasons for it. Morrisey could not have worded it any better "The music that they constantly play, says nothing to me about my life"

Is it any shock that when a band sings about things that resonate with your life that you connect with them?

Now in short I kind of understand what Liam Fray is saying but it is hardly the end of the world. The funny thing is Depeche Mode have been saying similar for years in regards to their support at home yet that is never mentioned on here. 

Fair enough, there is a lot of music being called shit on here, but it is always because the music is shit, rather than because it's from the north, south east or west.

I think courteeners fans are idiots, not because they are from manchester and like a manchester band, but because they are from manchester and like a shit band.

The reasons why they like that band arent relevant. You make good points regarding why people are more attached to bands they can relate to though. I guess I missed your point earlier.

When I was growing up I never lived in one place for any long period of time so I dont really have an affinity to anywhere

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2016 by russycarps

[bamber]

2 minutes ago, russycarps said:

I think (*) fans are idiots, not because they are from (*) and like a (*) band, but because they are from (*) and like a shit band.

 

[eastynh]

33 minutes ago, russycarps said:

apart from some anti-liverpool stuff a couple of years back which saw the culprits banned I've never seen anything like you describe, apart from the jokes towards your good self, which are always said (and taken) in good spirit I'm sure.

I just dont think this forum is a nasty place in any shape or form, and I certainly dont think there's a regional bias

 

Mate regional bias exists at every level of life. This forum is no different. Although not music related one example of it I have always found quite amusing is the Manchester/Liverpool rivalry. They can fight like cats and dogs at home. Take Maximes nightclub in Wigan, I have seen Mancs and Scousers go right at it. Yet moved out of that environment, then Mancs and Scousers generally stick together. People are People mate and it will never change.

 

 

[MadScientist]

I think we live in a time where classism is becoming more and more prevalent. Working class culture as a whole is under attack from Tory cynicism and the music is just part of that. I've heard people refer to the likes of Arctic Monkeys, Oasis, Courteeners etc as "chav rock" which I think demonstrates the classist undertone of it. 

[Spindles]

55 minutes ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

I have two 10" records as well as some 7" and 12" ones so mine is more varied than yours already.

10" vinyl was always sexy.  Seemingly better packaged, a heavier vinyl.  Every platter was a delight in my collection (many, many years back, numbering thousands over several floor to ceiling racks that I sold off piecemeal to pay to live during my squatting times).  I was literally just looking longingly at a 10" print and thinking about turntables...

[bamber]

I'm the only one here who likes a particular musician from Essex, I bet,

[Quark]

3 minutes ago, bamber said:

I'm the only one here who likes a particular musician from Essex, I bet,

Name and shame Bamber, name and shame!

[russycarps]

18 minutes ago, MadScientist said:

I think we live in a time where classism is becoming more and more prevalent. Working class culture as a whole is under attack from Tory cynicism and the music is just part of that. I've heard people refer to the likes of Arctic Monkeys, Oasis, Courteeners etc as "chav rock" which I think demonstrates the classist undertone of it. 

this forum is the polar opposite of that, it's the toffs we hate here!

mumfords, noah and the whale, stornoway, florence and the machine, lily allen, iron maiden and all the other private school c**ts who have had everything handed to them on a plate can fuck right off!

 

[russycarps]

2 minutes ago, Quark said:

Name and shame Bamber, name and shame!

I'm getting olly murs vibes

 

[bamber]

2 minutes ago, Quark said:

Name and shame Bamber, name and shame!

You Knows it bruv

[eastynh]

13 minutes ago, MadScientist said:

I think we live in a time where classism is becoming more and more prevalent. Working class culture as a whole is under attack from Tory cynicism and the music is just part of that. I've heard people refer to the likes of Arctic Monkeys, Oasis, Courteeners etc as "chav rock" which I think demonstrates the classist undertone of it. 

Not really sure it is a class thing, rather than just being  human nature. People whether we like it or not can be wary of things that are not similar to themselves.

I have seen people who sniff shitloads of coke abuse and look down their noses at people who smoke crack, while failing to notice the irony of it being pretty much the exact same drug.

I have seen it at Glastonbury where people have been initially wary of us just because of our accents. Yet I have found that if you are a decent person, you can change peoples pre-determined opinions.

There is not much you can do about it, there will always be differences between us even if it is minute things like the north having gravy on their chips and the southerners not liking that. The world would be a far better place if we could accept and embrace cultural differences between ourselves rather then sneering at those differences or other people trying to make us all the same.

[eastynh]

2 minutes ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

 

You trying to depress me into submission?

 

[Hugh Jass]