Kendrick Lamar

[Nicklord]

I think that even if she didn't say it out loud it's still the same cause the message in everyone's heads is still the full line. It's like saying "the n word" if you say it like that the person still receives the original message. Same here, even if you don't sing it everyone is thinking about the lyrics and that's the same to me. I don't know if I'm clear  Can't even say it right in my native language 

[Gucci Piggy]

1 hour ago, WS_Jack_III said:

(Do many Black Brits use it in the same way?)

I think so. I have a flatmate who says "sup n----" every time he sees me. Once towards the beginning of the year a white flatmate decided to say it to him when he walked into the kitchen. That was very awkward.

[WS_Jack_III]

21 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

nope, I don't think it's anywhere similar, there's no privileged-use.

The problem raised in this thread by what happened with singalong girl is around privileged use - and for that girl and how people reacted here, it certainly looks like its a problem for her.

In terms of a hate symbol/hate language being reclaimed though.

[Gucci Piggy]

14 minutes ago, Nicklord said:

I think that even if she didn't say it out loud it's still the same cause the message in everyone's heads is still the full line. It's like saying "the n word" if you say it like that the person still receives the original message. Same here, even if you don't sing it everyone is thinking about the lyrics and that's the same to me. I don't know if I'm clear  Can't even say it right in my native language 

Yeah but she can't change that. The fact is that white people shouldn't say it. Just because everyone in the crowd knows what word is supposed to be in the blank space she's still not using a word which she has no right to use. It's fine that the original message has that word in it because it was written by a black man, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have to respect their race and blank out one word.

[dentalplan]

15 minutes ago, Badlands said:

Thing is, the act doesn't necessarily become less offensive to others in the crowd just because Travis says its ok. 

Going back to my earlier comment a few pages ago about Kanye giving white people permission to sing , I would have felt awkward as I'd not want to offend those around me. 

 

Of course, I would too. I'm just pointing out that Travis Scott appears to be breaking down barriers here because he wants people to feel inclusive in the experience. Growing up, we're taught to never ever say 'the n word' and that it's a term of solidarity between black people but now you might have any person of colour in hip hop using it and rappers are the new rock stars so their culture is becoming the world's culture. Although I guess times have changed again and the alt-right has risen a bit since that video of Travis in 2016 and whenever you saw Kanye so I dunno.

[eFestivals]

Just now, WS_Jack_III said:

In terms of a hate symbol/hate language being reclaimed though.

who's reclaimed the swastika?

 

 

[WS_Jack_III]

6 minutes ago, Gucci Piggy said:

I think so. I have a flatmate who says "sup n----" every time he sees me. Once towards the beginning of the year a white flatmate decided to say it to him when he walked into the kitchen. That was very awkward.

I only asked as I live in an area that is lacking diversity so I honestly wasn't sure if it is used the same way here as in the US.

[WS_Jack_III]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

who's reclaimed the swastika?

 

 

The Punks. 

[Gucci Piggy]

1 minute ago, WS_Jack_III said:

I only asked as I live in an area that is lacking diversity so I honestly wasn't sure if it is used the same way here as in the US.

Yeah me too. Growing up I literally had one non-white person attend my school in the whole time I was there so I was very unexposed to racial diversity until I moved away for uni.

[eFestivals]

Just now, WS_Jack_III said:

The Punks. 

Nah. They were just trying to outrage, and there was no privileged use.

It's the privileged use that is the cause of the fuss around singalong girl, not any other aspect.

[FatAmmy]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Nah. They were just trying to outrage, and there was no privileged use.

It's the privileged use that is the cause of the fuss around singalong girl, not any other aspect.

The only problem here is the failure of the girl to join the rest of civilized society in respecting said privileged use. Not the privileged use itself

[WS_Jack_III]

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Nah. They were just trying to outrage, and there was no privileged use.

It's the privileged use that is the cause of the fuss around singalong girl, not any other aspect.

Fair enough, was just trying to expand the discussion.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, FatAmmy said:

The only problem here is the failure of the girl to join the rest of civilized society in respecting said privileged use. Not the privileged use itself

or alternatively, the lyricist who chose to use the word.

As I believe the girl said "I used it like you wrote it" - and if it was written with no harm intended, there is (logically) no harm in repeating it.

(to be clear, i'm not thinking she should be repeating it, I'm suggesting it might not be there and then she wouldn't be repeating it).

I'm merely pointing out that there can be more than one narrative around this, and the narrative you're supporting will always result in instances like this because it normalises its use.

I get why it's used as it is, but that doesn't mean it's right that it's used as it is. Ultimately the right or wrong is measured by the damage caused, and it's being OK'd to be out there to damage people in whole new ways - like the unfortunate (presumably) not-ill-meaning singalong girl.

And all the while, the word persists with its original meaning intact - because we all know what it references originally. Maybe it would be better if it didn't persist?

[FatAmmy]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

or alternatively, the lyricist who chose to use the word.

As I believe the girl said "I used it like you wrote it" - and if it was written with no harm intended, there is (logically) no harm in repeating it.

(to be clear, i'm not thinking she should be repeating it, I'm suggesting it might not be there and then she wouldn't be repeating it).

I'm merely pointing out that there can be more than one narrative around this, and the narrative you're supporting will always result in instances like this because it normalises its use.

I get why it's used as it is, but that doesn't mean it's right that it's used as it is. Ultimately the right or wrong is measured by the damage caused, and it's being OK'd to be out there to damage people in whole new ways - like the unfortunate (presumably) not-ill-meaning singalong girl.

And all the while, the word persists with its original meaning intact - because we all know what it references originally. Maybe it would be better if it didn't persist?

On 5/22/2018 at 10:25 AM, FatAmmy said:

I don't think we (White people) have any place in "eradicating" a word we have no right to use in the first place. It's not our call
 

 

[eFestivals]

Just now, FatAmmy said:

 

yep.

The ridiculing of singalong girl is its consequence. 

Other options and ideas are available.

[FatAmmy]

A white person deservedly being made to feel slightly embarrassed and uncomfortable is a consequence I can live with

(Obviously it shouldn't go beyond that)

[Mouseboy11]

Where do people stand on this?

 

 

[ghostdancer1]

5 hours ago, Winslow Leach said:

Funny how this conversation always leads to people posting the same clips from comedians, but never the one of Richard Pryor saying he doesn't like white people saying it in any circumstances and that he's decided to stop using it himself since visiting Africa ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

maybe because we're talking about someone who does use it, not someone who doesn't.

[ghostdancer1]

4 hours ago, Quark said:

Don't disagree with you, but...

I think Jack's nailed where the confusion lies in this case Gucci. Although she doesn't help herself by asking "am I not cool enough for you bro?" afterwards 

there isn't really confusion I don't think.

the usual Kendrick arse-lickers are sticking to their usual defence of him, while at the same time ignoring other slurs or offensive terms in his lyrics. I don't see too many of them calling for him to self-censor "bitch" from his lyrics.....

[Winslow Leach]

2 hours ago, Mouseboy11 said:

Where do people stand on this?

 

 

Well intentioned but hopelessly dated.

[Smeble]

6 hours ago, FatAmmy said:

Hmm, nah. Alternatively, don't say racial slurs if you're white

Not sure what skin colour has got to do with whether you are free to use racial slurs!

if you reread my post you will see I talk about context, and that is key,  the word is used in art, and the last time I looked art is to be enjoyed by all and not just by those with the right coloured skin.

[Smeble]

2 hours ago, FatAmmy said:

A white person deservedly being made to feel slightly embarrassed and uncomfortable is a consequence I can live with

(Obviously it shouldn't go beyond that)

You really don’t get it do you

[FatAmmy]

2 minutes ago, Smeble said:

Not sure what skin colour has got to do with whether you are free to use racial slurs!

if you reread my post you will see I talk about context, and that is key,  the word is used in art, and the last time I looked art is to be enjoyed by all and not just by those with the right coloured skin.

I have zero problems enjoying Kendrick Lamar's art without saying racial slurs

[Smeble]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Nah. They were just trying to outrage, and there was no privileged use.

It's the privileged use that is the cause of the fuss around singalong girl, not any other aspect.

What the feck is ‘priveleged use’? She was singing a lyric in a song, if he didn’t want people singing it, don’t use it. If the word is so heinous then it should be off limits to everyone, not just people with the ‘wrong’ coloured skin.

 

[FatAmmy]

It's incredible the absolute hysterics that inevitably occur when you tell a white person they can't have something