5,000 tents discarded

[Amy Lawn]

I must admit I did leave my tent. But I did clean up after myself on site.... Dropped litter like we all do in crowds.

Do we now?

I was doing the wash the other day and pulled about 10 crushed up pint cups in the pockets of the different pairs of shorts I'd been wearing. They stayed there because I'd intended to throw them in the bin when I found one, then forgotten they were there, it's not like you're lugging a stack of glass tankards to a bin, it's borderline weightless paper cups that fold into nowt.

[eoJ]

I think so many more tents would get packed up if they handed out stickers to everyone, with checkboxes and a space for notes, to describe any faults with the tent, with lots of drop off points for tents. Charities spend a ton on supplying tents to people that desperately need them, and it takes so much time disposing of everyone's tents, plus you don't know if anything's wrong with them. A sticker would take 20 seconds to fill out, and would skip the cleanup of them, and allow them to be used again where they're needed (or repaired if it's worth it, or thrown away/recycled if it's not), while giving plenty of people the warm fuzzies.

[frostypaw]

You have some very odd plans fella. Noone's going to want to fill out a form and stick it to their tent on their way out - these tents get left full of crap from sleeping bags to used wet wipes to buckets of shit. It's not a case of having had good intentions and then flummoxed by lack of paperwork - it's almost always just laziness.

Lazy stays lazy. Sadly. The leave no trace thing is well publicised, there's no mention of any used tent collection but people still think it - folk just don't read. Expecting those people to read and form-fill is a pipe dream

[H.M.V]

I must admit I did leave my tent. But I did clean up after myself on site.... Dropped litter like we all do in crowds. But made a point of picking some littler up here and there.

I thought that they collected the tents and gave them to charity?

Like we all do in crowds? Sorry but I didn't so much as leave a cigarette butt. I had a wee mint tin that I used as an ashtray at all times. I don't litter at home and I certainly don't do it on someones farm who has invited me to spend a glorious weekend on their land when all they ask is for me not to make a mess.

Its really not that hard.

[eoJ]

You have some very odd plans fella. Noone's going to want to fill out a form and stick it to their tent on their way out - these tents get left full of crap from sleeping bags to used wet wipes to buckets of shit. It's not a case of having had good intentions and then flummoxed by lack of paperwork - it's almost always just laziness.

Lazy stays lazy. Sadly. The leave no trace thing is well publicised, there's no mention of any used tent collection but people still think it - folk just don't read. Expecting those people to read and form-fill is a pipe dream

I'm not saying leave the tent as is, I'm saying pack it up, stick the sticker on the bag, chuck it in the area as you pass it on your way out. Takes away the idea that all tents are reused/recycled, and makes it far easier to put peer pressure on people leaving it behind, as well as pushing the idea that you're taking money from charity by leaving it behind, while giving money to charity if you pack it up first. Many, many people still believe that if they leave their tent, it will be recycled.

You also have the fact that instead of people seeing abandoned tents everywhere, they see tents in the designated recycling areas, which then encourages them to follow the crowd by recycling theirs, instead of following it by dumping theirs. Plenty don't want to take their tents home, but also don't want to litter it, but with seeing everyone else do it, they think 'what's the harm of one more', the side of them that wants to leave it behind just about wins, and they go ahead. There was one camping gear recycling point by Gate D, which did appear to be used by a fair amount of people.

The leave no trace thing isn't well publicized. I think I saw it once this year, on a scrolling LED board that very few people read. Give everyone a sticker on entry, with a thing at the top saying you can get more from info points (although, as most people take their tents behind, not knowing where the info points are/not wanting to go to one isn't an issue, as a friend will give theirs.) Would it solve the problem completely? Of course not. Would it reduce the number a lot, while also allowing tents to be recycled, instead of just flattened, as the security talk about? I think so.

Here's a very brief mockup I did in Paint. Obviously, it's a 5 minute job, so not perfect, but I don't think most people would find filling it out arduous. It also gives an easy point to press the 'leave no trace' message (above the sticker).

Edited July 5, 2014 by eoJ

[frostypaw]

I'm not saying leave the tent as is, I'm saying pack it up, stick the sticker on the bag, chuck it in the area as you pass it on your way out. Takes away the idea that all tents are reused/recycled, and makes it far easier to put peer pressure on people leaving it behind, as well as pushing the idea that you're taking money from charity by leaving it behind, while giving money to charity if you pack it up first. Many, many people still believe that if they leave their tent, it will be recycled.

The leave no trace thing isn't well publicized. I think I saw it once this year, on a scrolling LED board that very few people read.

really? look on the right hand side for the f-off massive banner - it's been there in one form or another since the site redesign and was there in a different way before

It's been unavoidable really

edit> ps. it's actually heavily mentioned on the first three pages of the program too

I don't see how being in possession of a sticker will give anyone peer-pressure to pack up their tent, check all it's parts and fill out some paperwork about it when they're so lazy they just pack up and go leaving drink/food/shit behind. it's not like people are packing them up and leaving them where they are thinking they'll get checked and taken, and the charities are only throwing them away due to lack of data about what's included in each neatly packed tent

Edited July 5, 2014 by frostypaw

[eoJ]

really? look on the right hand side for the f-off massive banner - it's been there in one form or another since the site redesign and was there in a different way before

It's been unavoidable really

edit> ps. it's actually heavily mentioned on the first three pages of the program too

I don't see how being in possession of a sticker will give anyone peer-pressure to pack up their tent, check all it's parts and fill out some paperwork about it when they're so lazy they just pack up and go leaving drink/food/shit behind. it's not like people are packing them up and leaving them where they are thinking they'll get checked and taken, and the charities are only throwing them away due to lack of data about what's included in each neatly packed tent

Your link's broken, you have the thread link before it. But in regards to that:

It's so far below the fold, the vast, vast majority of people won't even scroll past it, let alone notice it. It's the absolute bottom of the banners, below the tickets link, the Glastonbury shop, and the Glastonbury Abbey Extravaganza (which, seeing as the vast majority of people aren't from Somerset, people will have tuned out by). The page is filled with red and other bright colours, whereas the banner is in a pastel pink. It has no call to action or real message (the slogan is crap anyway - what's a trace - a footprint?) with a huge amount of space being taken up by a worm, rather than something people will notice, or that actually at least bears relevance to the tent issue.

ps. it's actually heavily mentioned on the first three pages of the program too

Plenty of people don't read it, my lanyard was used purely for the map, nothing else at all. I've just gone to get my Guardian Guide, which even as a seasoned glasto-lover, was only read once, and to summarise:

Page 1 & 2, lots of text, but only 2 small mentions of bringing your tents home, but it doesn't use the word tents, it uses the word 'belongings'. Most people would read this as your stuff, and not include the tent in that. A big orange message from ME, which I think may get read a bit, but he doesn't mention it once. Also, there's no mention of benefits at all, only lecturing on what you should do. If you write an ad, and talk about the features a lot, but don't mention any benefits, your ad will fail.

3rd page, a lot better, but unfortunately very very focused on Greenpeace, Oxfam, and Wateraid. Not in any way subtle, it reads like a massive ad, and it will be skipped (I know I did).

Both are also prior to the contents page, which generally gets skipped anyway, just like the introduction to books.

I don't see how being in possession of a sticker will give anyone peer-pressure to pack up their tent, check all it's parts and fill out some paperwork about it when they're so lazy they just pack up and go leaving drink/food/shit behind. it's not like people are packing them up and leaving them where they are thinking they'll get checked and taken, and the charities are only throwing them away due to lack of data about what's included in each neatly packed tent

They don't need to check, if your pole/groundsheet/fabric's broken, you'll know.

I saw plenty of people who put all their litter in a binbag, but left their tent behind. I also heard multiple people say that they were leaving it behind, and that it all gets reused anyway.

Plenty were leaving them neatly packed, by Gate D. But we need more of those spots, not just one or two rogue steward points in sparsely populated fields.

At the moment, I'd imagine even if someone neatly packs their tent away, it still takes a hell of a lot of time for the charity to go and unpack it & pitch it to make sure everything's fine. 20 seconds of ticking some boxes, and that's avoided. Also, if a tent's almost working, but has say, a snapped pole, then no problem, you just find another one of the same model with something wrong with it and take that, no need to put it all up etc. 20 minutes+ saved for the charity, in exchange for 20 seconds of ticking a couple of boxes and spending 2p on a sticker. You also get all the people who take their tent home just because they're meant to, giving it to charity instead, which gives the charity free stuff they wouldn't have had otherwise.

Edited July 5, 2014 by eoJ

[grumpyhack]

A few years ago on arrival they were giving out empty 35mm film canisters with a 'Bin your butts' sticker on them. I still have mine and carry it with me around the fest. So every fag end goes in the canister until I find a suitable bin.

The leave your tent for recycling idea was one that backfired as people just left their tents, not taken down or packed away so they just ended in landfill.

Pleading doesn't work, punishment doesn't work. A reward system would be great but hard to operate. How do you prove a negative - that you've left nothing behind?

[frostypaw]

Dude your posts are TLDR even for me and I'm pretty verbose

And you're still imagining that people will suddenly want to put in effort for no obvious reward. Folk just aren't like that. And every tent would have to be checked and sanitised anyway - i admire your youthful optimism but have distinctly less faith in the already lazy and selfish

[plaskins]

And what was it doing over the course of the festival?

[russycarps]

People just couldn't give a fuck. It's that simple.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

People just couldn't give a fuck. It's that simple.

No, it's just some people. Fortunately the minority. What surprises me is that you can go to smaller festivals and nobody would consider leaving tents, rubbish etc and walking off. I'm kind of curious why some people at the larger festivals think it's OK to do so. Could be their up bringing, could be that they are inherently lazy, that they have obviously got too much disposable income etc etc It could, of course, be a blend of all these things. No, having thought about it further you are right - some people just couldn't give a fuck.

[grumpyhack]

Yog, you're quite right that you get less litter and rubbish at smaller festivals. Maybe people feel more connected to them or more supportive. Could it be a bit like living in a small village where you feel more connected to the whole community? Possibly, despite its traditional ethos, that a lot of newer Glasto goers just see it as another commercial venture?

[giantkatestacks]

Maybe people who go to smaller festivals are more likely to go to more than one a year and therefore need all their camping stuff for the next one. Plus everything doesnt get quite as messy. Not that thats any excuse.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Possibly, despite its traditional ethos, that a lot of newer Glasto goers just see it as another commercial venture?

Without doubt I'd say.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Maybe people who go to smaller festivals are more likely to go to more than one a year and therefore need all their camping stuff for the next one. Plus everything doesnt get quite as messy. Not that thats any excuse.

Yep, they'd be a lot of truth in that I'd say.

[carlosj]

Dropped litter like we all do in crowds.

No, we don't all do. Waiting for the Wailers, and I watched many people sit and eat, and then wander off leaving plates and all sorts of shit on the ground, within 15 yards of the bins. Hate it, at festivals and at work or home.

No, it's just some people. Fortunately the minority. What surprises me is that you can go to smaller festivals and nobody would consider leaving tents, rubbish etc and walking off. I'm kind of curious why some people at the larger festivals think it's OK to do so. Could be their up bringing, could be that they are inherently lazy, that they have obviously got too much disposable income etc etc It could, of course, be a blend of all these things. No, having thought about it further you are right - some people just couldn't give a fuck.

Yog, you're quite right that you get less litter and rubbish at smaller festivals. Maybe people feel more connected to them or more supportive. Could it be a bit like living in a small village where you feel more connected to the whole community? Possibly, despite its traditional ethos, that a lot of newer Glasto goers just see it as another commercial venture?

Maybe these are smaller and more visible. At the same Wailers gig, we had some arrogant spaced f'#ckers in front of us trying to sit in our chairs and drink our stuff. Now I feel like Paul Calf with "f#cking students" :-(

[carlosj]

Without doubt I'd say.

Agreed

[frostypaw]

Reading the different media outlets' coverage answers a lot of it - many cannot stop banging on about how the festival has lost it's way and become a commercial husk to come ravage for a good time, others blind to it's downsides presenting it as a family friendly all fun fest. People read and believe what they want to.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I guess on the upside there is the fact that the festival raises more money for Water Aid etc than it ever used to in years gone by. I should imagine the Eavis's know that they no longer have the same festival as they used to. Maybe they are changing with the times, or maybe they are maximising the funds they can give away to worthy causes.

[eoJ]

Dude your posts are TLDR even for me and I'm pretty verbose

And you're still imagining that people will suddenly want to put in effort for no obvious reward. Folk just aren't like that. And every tent would have to be checked and sanitised anyway - i admire your youthful optimism but have distinctly less faith in the already lazy and selfish

I've broken it up to respond to each bit of your post to make it easier to read. Still long, but hey, personally I'd rather 5 minutes out of my day with 1 long post back and forth than an hour of small back and forth ones that end up repeating themselves.

Depends how desperate it is. If there's an emergency in a third world country that's left thousands homeless, I doubt they'd be too worried about a bit of mud or a wet wipe. But still, sanitising a packed tent with notes as to its condition is a lot easier than doing one which may have something majorly wrong with it (and sanitisation could be done at the destination, when it's already being unpacked, as well). And as I mentioned, this wouldn't fix those who are truly, 100% lazy and selfish, but I think most people aren't. Also, as I mentioned, it also encourages the people who do take their tents home (to then throw them away, or never use them again) to instead give them to charity, where they can be used for a good cause.

The reward is warm fuzzies over making a donation to charity, even of a broken tent, which may help fix a non-broken one. I think there are very very few people in the UK who've absolutely never given money to a homeless person, or to a charity.

Edited July 6, 2014 by eoJ

[MattL80]

So that's where my dog went.

[frostypaw]

The reward is warm fuzzies over making a donation to charity, even of a broken tent, which may help fix a non-broken one. I think there are very very few people in the UK who've absolutely never given money to a homeless person, or to a charity.

are you doing guilfest this year? it'd be good to have a pint with someone with as optimistic and with much to say as yourself, even if we do often disagree! besides in real life we'd both have to draw breath now and then, might help us keep it shorter

[incident]

The crew fields can be messy at the end, after all Oxfam had to move fields because the farmer was so cross at the state of his field.

To be fair, that's not even close to being the main reason. I'm not going to repeat what I've heard because I don't know how much of the story I have / don't have and there may be a court case pending, but the story coming from a few different directions suggests that litter wasn't the trigger - the imposition of the one way system surrounding the site probably played more of a part.

Edited July 6, 2014 by incident

[BA4 4BY]

I think I've read all of this thread, but sorry if I've missed this already.

I feel that one reason people leave so much behind compared to many (most?) other festivals is the distance they have to carry it back to the car parks with a banging hangover. Plus the price that camping stuff etc can be bought for these days, and the volume of 'middle class', well off punters means people can afford to leave the stuff behind, so they do because it's easier for them. We're not talking about the majority of massively 'in tune with Glasto' folk that frequent these pages here, we're talking selfish, just here for the weekend types, who think the world owes them a living and that the £200+ entrance fee includes being cleaned up after and couldn't give a shit what happens to their mess.

Sad but true, and unless some radical measures are devised to combat this behaviour, unlikely to change anytime soon.