Dolly Parton MIming?

[The Nal]

I am in the minority then - was in the front pit for Dolly and have watched it back on TV twice.

She did not play the violin.

She did play the guitar and the sax.

She did not mime.

I have worked with music lots of my life so have 'experience'........ when looking to see if someone is really singing, look at the neck!

She did not play the sax. Everything else is up for grabs.

[Mr Ploppy]

My only disappointment with the Dolly gig is that she didn't finish up with Wendy Craig and Nicholas Lyndhurst on stage for a run through of Love Is Like a Butterfly.

he he he. Excellent!

[CaledonianGonzo]

Post Richie Sambora I might have been shouting out for Nicholas Lyndhurst a little too loudly....

[Wooderson]

Not its not up for grabs chief in fairness. Dolly has previous here.

She mimed - not for everything - but for a proportion of the show the vocal we heard was pre-recorded. Jolene and Nine to Five frinstance. Arguably her two most famous songs were categorically not sung live at Glastonbury. End of.

I don't have such an issue with it as I've said on here last week - 9 to 5 is a HOOR of a song to perform live. It was the denial that pissed me right off. Taking us for utter mugs.

[pedmills]

Although Dolly's set was a bit of a laugh, and I feel like we shouldn't take it too seriously, I also for some reason feel like it breaks some kind of Glastonbury standard.

Obviously there's no rule against it at Glastonbury but has anybody done it before?

Presumably e.g. Tom Jones didn't?

[Mr Ploppy]

Not its not up for grabs chief in fairness. Dolly has previous here.

She mimed - not for everything - but for a proportion of the show the vocal we heard was pre-recorded. Jolene and Nine to Five frinstance. Arguably her two most famous songs were categorically not sung live at Glastonbury. End of.

I don't have such an issue with it as I've said on here last week - 9 to 5 is a HOOR of a song to perform live. It was the denial that pissed me right off. Taking us for utter mugs.

100% agree.

Thats the thing that gets to me too - the denial.

Its okay for Dolly fans and those who enjoyed the set to be in denial, but for those of us who can quite clearly through the miming - it does really convey that we are being played as fools.

How anyone can think she played that Sax is just incredible.

Jolene for example... parts of it actually sound like she is in a recording studio. Its hard to explain - you either see through the charade or you dont, its as simple as that.

2 minutes into this video here... how can anyone think this is live...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwBNBcFAFso#t=120

[russycarps]

Leonard Cohen didnt mime and he was well over 70 when he played.

Obviously it's absurd to compare a credible artist with a novelty act though.

Edited July 7, 2014 by russycarps

[The Nal]

Not its not up for grabs chief in fairness. Dolly has previous here.

She mimed - not for everything - but for a proportion of the show the vocal we heard was pre-recorded. Jolene and Nine to Five frinstance. Arguably her two most famous songs were categorically not sung live at Glastonbury. End of.

I don't have such an issue with it as I've said on here last week - 9 to 5 is a HOOR of a song to perform live. It was the denial that pissed me right off. Taking us for utter mugs.

By up for grabs I mean no one is sure what was what. Its music panto anyway so it doesnt matter that much. One of the biggest cheers/laughs was when she said "gee-tar". Its just a bit of a laugh.

Beyonce blatently mimed a load of her show and had multi layered backing tracks throughout. And she was a headliner.

These American pop shows shouldnt be viewed as anything other than extremely mild entertainment.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Obviously it's absurd to compare a credible artist with a novelty act though.

Leonard Cohen didn't bring Nicholas Lyndhurst out either.

[russycarps]

Leonard Cohen isn't a novelty act, is he?

He never had a particularly great singing voice. To replicate that at 70 years old isn't such a big deal

I'll bow to your superior knowledge of old age

[Mr Ploppy]

I do agree with you The Nal, it was a fun act and had a party vibe from what I can see, but Parton does have alot of fans. I've known people that adore what she does and she is obviously a talented artist and songwriter which does make her credible.

Parton is established and has achieved alot in her long career and so I think she should have been more 'down the line' with her Glasto performance. Yeah she threw in great banter and tried to do something different with the Benny Hill Theme etc etc - but did she really need to? She was gonna draw that crowd anyway.

I do think the whole Dolly Parton thing is quite sad really as she isnt a has-been that people laugh at, she is a credible artist, CaledonianGonzo knows all her tunes and so do alot of people probably. But as I said before,the Pyramid crowd were probably just waiting for 9 to 5 and Jolene so maybe thats why things were 'dramatised' somewhat by Parton and hew management.

Dont get me wrong, I have nothing against her or anyone who enjoyed the gig - my only gripe is the denial and the fact everyone seemed to be raving about somebody miming her vocals and the complete bizarre nature of her miming the Benny Hill Theme on a Sax.

Hmmmn, I suppose knowing music so well and being able to spot a mime as soon as it happens (as I disappointingly did the first time Roger Waters started to do it) is something I'll have to live with. lol

That USA video someone posted on this thread the other day says alot too as she seems to have 'previous' with this kinda thing.

[Mr Ploppy]

Leonard Cohen didn't bring Nicholas Lyndhurst out either.

Yeah but the Pyramid stage isn't tall enough to accommodate the height of nicholas lyndhursts elongated skull.

[Wooderson]

Shitty enough precendent this year. Guarantee you the BBC cameracrew on the West Holts field were given the heads-up by Alison Goldfrapp's people that they needed to disguise her miming. She's a pretty well respected vocalist too - nothing of the "novelty yeee harr" about her Nal.

Bands have used pro-tools and behind curtain guitarists/synths for years at Glasto but this is the first time singers have tried to really pull a fast one on the crowd/audience that I can remember.

I can only imagine the dogs abuse someone like Macca would get if he mimed Blackbird at Glasto. Reading '96 Roses level of ire aimed in his direction.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Yeah but the Pyramid stage isn't tall enough to accommodate the height of nicholas lyndhursts elongated skull.

Len should have been on the blower regardless:

"I've heard there was a secret chord

That David played, and it pleased the Lord

But you don't really care for music, do ya?

You Plonker."

[russycarps]

Shitty enough precendent this year. Guarantee you the BBC cameracrew on the West Holts field were given the heads-up by Alison Goldfrapp's people that they needed to disguise her miming. She's a pretty well respected vocalist too - nothing of the "novelty yeee harr" about her Nal.

Bands have used pro-tools and behind curtain guitarists/synths for years at Glasto but this is the first time singers have tried to really pull a fast one on the crowd/audience that I can remember.

I can only imagine the dogs abuse someone like Macca would get if he mimed Blackbird at Glasto. Reading '96 Roses level of ire aimed in his direction.

wait what goldfrapp mimed too??? FFS I'm going to see them in august!

We have to believe somone like macca would never ever consider miming..

[Mr Ploppy]

...but this is the first time singers have tried to really pull a fast one on the crowd/audience that I can remember.

I can only imagine the dogs abuse someone like Macca would get if he mimed Blackbird at Glasto.

Wooders - stop talking so much sense as I'm getting fed up of agreeing with you.

[Wooderson]

As you say Ploppy - either people's interest or ability to spot a mime ("Ive seen spinals!" etc) has diminished or theres more of a willingness to accept a performer taking a shortcut. Lot of proper smart heads on this thread reacting with a real "meh" is a worry I have to say. We're a generation from the Hendrix hologram headlining the festival mark my words. People just couldnt give a fiddlers.

[Mr Ploppy]

Len should have been on the blower regardless:

"I've heard there was a secret chord

That David played, and it pleased the Lord

But you don't really care for music, do ya?

You Plonker."

LMFAO! Genius!

[The Nal]

Shitty enough precendent this year. Guarantee you the BBC cameracrew on the West Holts field were given the heads-up by Alison Goldfrapp's people that they needed to disguise her miming. She's a pretty well respected vocalist too - nothing of the "novelty yeee harr" about her Nal.

Bands have used pro-tools and behind curtain guitarists/synths for years at Glasto but this is the first time singers have tried to really pull a fast one on the crowd/audience that I can remember.

I can only imagine the dogs abuse someone like Macca would get if he mimed Blackbird at Glasto. Reading '96 Roses level of ire aimed in his direction.

Goldfrapp was singing sort of (I think) over a multi layered backing track yeah. Is that not standard for her though?

Regarding precedent, its happened before this year. As mentioned, heres the 2011 headliner miming like a motherfucker.

Actually, its not even miming. The CD is just playing (her voice) while she dances about not even attempting to sing.

I think they do (give a fiddlers). Being surprised that Dolly's performance was a Vegas type show seems odd.

This is the point yeah. Were people expecting her to start free forming on the sax and talking about how shes been really digging on late era Coltrane?

Edited July 7, 2014 by The Nal

[Wooderson]

in what way is Alison Goldfrapp a respected singer? She's made some enjoyable records, but she's hardly a great singer.

Hark at Aretha here!

[russycarps]

which is why beyonce is by a considerable margin the worst thing that has ever happened at the festival.

loathesome on every single level.

madonna would be the same

[Wooderson]

I don't think Beyonce has attained the level of success on the back of song writing craft or "creative" strengths. I didnt go see her show, but that to me is the epitome of Vegas.

Dolly is a country music icon. Ye'know: roots, downhome, "real", old-timey. To hear her mime Jolene so early in the set was a real jolt for me. To hear her subsequently deny it was offensive.

[The Nal]

I don't think Beyonce has attained the level of success on the back of song writing craft or "creative" strengths. I didnt go see her show, but that to me is the epitome of Vegas.

Dolly is a country music icon. Ye'know: roots, downhome, "real", old-timey. To hear her mime Jolene so early in the set was a real jolt for me. To hear her subsequently deny it was offensive.

Well I got exactly what I expected from her. Shes been doing the same shtick for 30 years now. Says the same things between songs, same sax playing and gags, same stories about her family and husband etc. Standard stuff. Bit of fun for an hour on Sunday.

Beyonce headlined and was deemed a resounding triumph. Even by the most critical parts of music press. Scared shitless to say anything bad due to the power she and her hubby have in the industry. Theres your precedent.

This is a woman who had the balls to mime the national anthem in front of the world at the inauguration - a song shes been singing since she could speak -and she was badly caught out miming at the Grammys a few months ago. Now if she was in the Sunday afternoon spot Id have no issue with it, just like Dolly. Thats what the Sunday afternoon slot is there for. Barring a few exceptions,. carefree, feelgood and mindless entertainment.

Not singling out Beyonce as the only lip syncer ever either. All that American lot are at it. Most of these big events have singers miming to pre recorded tracks. Whitney did it, Neil Diamond, Diana Ross etc. Its standard stuff. But they haven't headlined Glastonbury.

Edited July 7, 2014 by The Nal

[Mr Ploppy]

As you say Ploppy - either people's interest or ability to spot a mime ("Ive seen spinals!" etc) has diminished or theres more of a willingness to accept a performer taking a shortcut. Lot of proper smart heads on this thread reacting with a real "meh" is a worry I have to say. We're a generation from the Hendrix hologram headlining the festival mark my words. People just couldnt give a fiddlers.

Thats it Wooders.

I have no problem with 'theatrics' for bands that need it. For example, The Pet Shop Boys need a stage show and all the extra appeal to go along with the way they perform... but even Neil Tennant sings live!

I fear at times that the days of watching a band and appreciating how hard it is to perform live (warts and all (no Lemmy jokes please)) and then walking away being impressed or judgemental are sometimes being replaced with the 'wow' factor. The wow factor can be anything from pyrotechnics to silly Benny Hill Sax miming... but nevertheless - the overall feeling from a performance should be the music and the ability of the artist.

A number of years ago bands and record labels realised that live music was the money maker and not the albums, since then there seems to be an ever increasing need to put a 'wow' spin on everything and make people talk about the live experience. Thats fine, as an experience of something that gets your heart racing is good - but I do feel that sometimes people lose sight of what they are there for - and thats the music.

The Parton 'theatrics' for me and the denial of it all is a big disappointment. I'm not a Parton fan and missed her on the Pyramid, but I'm savvy enough to know her body of work (and I'm not talking about the plastic bits (oo-er)) and that she is a well respected artist.... so why did she have to resort to such blatent trickery. Did she not realise she would be broadcast live in 1080i?

There are some crazy views flying around this thread at the moment and I'm amazing Russy kept fairly quite about the comment that Leonard Cohen never had a great singing voice anyway so it doesnt matter that he is older... thats not the point... the point is that Leonard is an amazing songwriter and artist, without him I doubt we would have Nick Cave and if its so easy to make an incredible worldwide career out of not being able to sing very well - then why isnt everyone doing it? Simple really... because not everyone has the talent to pull it off... Leonard does, but in the same way I suspect Dolly does too. She is established, respected and popular - so why the heck resort to trickery?

Yeah that late afternoon Dolly slot was always gonna be geared up for a party vibe - but last year did Kenny Rogers come on and play the Laurel & Hardy theme on a didgeridoo? Nope, because he put the work into being the artist he is known to be.

People are far too easily pleased. I remember people going on about the black beachballs flying around after the Metallica gig but not many people actually commenting on the band. I remember mentioning Kasabian and alot of people saying "did you see those awesome lasers" and not really mentioning the set itself. There is a bit too much of a 'spectacular' slant on things these days and trying far too hard to make it memorable.

Dolly and her crew certainly made it memorable - but in a way that was a full on trick of the audience. And yeah, alot of the audience didnt mind what was going on, who was singing it or whether there were any strings on any of the guitars - simply because they enjoyed it... and thats fine. But dont let that overshadow the fact that she is supposed to be a talented and respected artist and lowered herself to becoming as fake as her looks when all along she never needed to.

Last Glasto (2013) I went into Toad Hall and watched a guy play guitar and sing. There were about 40 people in there and it was one of my highlights of last year for sure. Sometimes the theatrics are a good diversion from respecting an artist and so I have no problem just having a fun and crazy dancing time in front of the pyramid. yes, I was there in the morning that year dancing and singing my head off to This Old House by Shaky, but I'll come full circle and say that the important thing to remember is this:

what I really mean

before the Dolly gig - loads of people were talking about watching her. After the Dolly gig - loads of people were talking about how they watched her. The figures the beeb got for showing her set were through the roof and I heard something about it being one of the biggest Pyramid crowds ever. People were impressed with her voice and impressed she could play all those instruments, my mate even commented on that. But the reality of it was she mimed and faked playing an instrument(s) and then had the audacity to deny it. hmmmn,

[Wooderson]

Quality stuff Ploppy. I've zero tolerance for this acceptance. Don't think Beyoncé and Parton are comparable - but would apply same standards to both. If you're on the Pyramid please sing. Otherwise what's the point?