Dolly Parton MIming?

[CaledonianGonzo]

My rule of thumb is whether it impacted the perfromance for me at the time.

Now, it might have been because I was swigging deeply from a flagon of something from Venezuela called Ron Selecto, but this entirely passed me by until I was back at home. So the only way it can hamper my enjoyment would be retrospectively. I can understand if it cheapens it a bit for others, I suppose, but the memories I have of what went down are unsullied.

[The Nal]

Apart from the sax I honestly don't see any miming.

Here she is 100% singing 9 to 5 a few months back. Sounds the exact same as Glasto. Same for Jolene. I think she was singing it.

[Jules007]

Thats it Wooders.

I have no problem with 'theatrics' for bands that need it. For example, The Pet Shop Boys need a stage show and all the extra appeal to go along with the way they perform... but even Neil Tennant sings live!

I fear at times that the days of watching a band and appreciating how hard it is to perform live (warts and all (no Lemmy jokes please)) and then walking away being impressed or judgemental are sometimes being replaced with the 'wow' factor. The wow factor can be anything from pyrotechnics to silly Benny Hill Sax miming... but nevertheless - the overall feeling from a performance should be the music and the ability of the artist.

A number of years ago bands and record labels realised that live music was the money maker and not the albums, since then there seems to be an ever increasing need to put a 'wow' spin on everything and make people talk about the live experience. Thats fine, as an experience of something that gets your heart racing is good - but I do feel that sometimes people lose sight of what they are there for - and thats the music.

The Parton 'theatrics' for me and the denial of it all is a big disappointment. I'm not a Parton fan and missed her on the Pyramid, but I'm savvy enough to know her body of work (and I'm not talking about the plastic bits (oo-er)) and that she is a well respected artist.... so why did she have to resort to such blatent trickery. Did she not realise she would be broadcast live in 1080i?

There are some crazy views flying around this thread at the moment and I'm amazing Russy kept fairly quite about the comment that Leonard Cohen never had a great singing voice anyway so it doesnt matter that he is older... thats not the point... the point is that Leonard is an amazing songwriter and artist, without him I doubt we would have Nick Cave and if its so easy to make an incredible worldwide career out of not being able to sing very well - then why isnt everyone doing it? Simple really... because not everyone has the talent to pull it off... Leonard does, but in the same way I suspect Dolly does too. She is established, respected and popular - so why the heck resort to trickery?

Yeah that late afternoon Dolly slot was always gonna be geared up for a party vibe - but last year did Kenny Rogers come on and play the Laurel & Hardy theme on a didgeridoo? Nope, because he put the work into being the artist he is known to be.

People are far too easily pleased. I remember people going on about the black beachballs flying around after the Metallica gig but not many people actually commenting on the band. I remember mentioning Kasabian and alot of people saying "did you see those awesome lasers" and not really mentioning the set itself. There is a bit too much of a 'spectacular' slant on things these days and trying far too hard to make it memorable.

Dolly and her crew certainly made it memorable - but in a way that was a full on trick of the audience. And yeah, alot of the audience didnt mind what was going on, who was singing it or whether there were any strings on any of the guitars - simply because they enjoyed it... and thats fine. But dont let that overshadow the fact that she is supposed to be a talented and respected artist and lowered herself to becoming as fake as her looks when all along she never needed to.

Last Glasto (2013) I went into Toad Hall and watched a guy play guitar and sing. There were about 40 people in there and it was one of my highlights of last year for sure. Sometimes the theatrics are a good diversion from respecting an artist and so I have no problem just having a fun and crazy dancing time in front of the pyramid. yes, I was there in the morning that year dancing and singing my head off to This Old House by Shaky, but I'll come full circle and say that the important thing to remember is this:

what I really mean

before the Dolly gig - loads of people were talking about watching her. After the Dolly gig - loads of people were talking about how they watched her. The figures the beeb got for showing her set were through the roof and I heard something about it being one of the biggest Pyramid crowds ever. People were impressed with her voice and impressed she could play all those instruments, my mate even commented on that. But the reality of it was she mimed and faked playing an instrument(s) and then had the audacity to deny it. hmmmn,

I have read this, I hear what you're saying but you are instilling your tastes on people. Music aint just about raw noise. 'Trickery' is just as much about giving a good show. We know Dolly is talented, she writes good stuff and can/could sing it pretty well.But she's an OAP now. If she needs to have a backing track/mime/empty her catheter bag to give a good show then so be it. I guarantee the majority of Sunday's crowd couldn't give a flying turd. When you get to a certain age after achieving so much, as someone mentoned before, its either this or no performance and I'd prefer Dolly to sing/mime to me whilst I'm drinking alcohol in the sunshine.

[Mr Ploppy]

I have read this, I hear what you're saying but you are instilling your tastes on people. Music aint just about raw noise. 'Trickery' is just as much about giving a good show. We know Dolly is talented, she writes good stuff and can/could sing it pretty well.But she's an OAP now. If she needs to have a backing track/mime/empty her catheter bag to give a good show then so be it. I guarantee the majority of Sunday's crowd couldn't give a flying turd. When you get to a certain age after achieving so much, as someone mentoned before, its either this or no performance and I'd prefer Dolly to sing/mime to me whilst I'm drinking alcohol in the sunshine.

whoooa, not at all. I havent mentioned my tastes at all. I've mentioned Dolly, Blondie, Metallica, Kasabian, Leonard Cohen, Nick Cave, Shakin Stevens and Dry The River. Out of that list there is only Dry The River I am a fan of.. the rest are some I like and some I dont - but I havent mentioned my tastes.

I have mentioned the difference between singing live and miming.

You are right though, she is an OAP... alot of people are... including Debbie Harry (who sung live).

You are missing the point by miles. I agree that if its either 'that' or no performance - I too would rather have 'that'.... but to deny miming is a big no-no.

Its all quite simple really, OAP (as you put it) mimes, some like it, some dont. Each to their own.

[ThomThomDrum]

Apart from the sax I honestly don't see any miming.

Are you deaf and blind or just messing about with a massive spoon?

[The Nal]

Are you deaf and blind or just messing about with a massive spoon?

Honestly. Cant see it. Some of it sounds a little too polished but i cant see any diff in sound vs visual.

[Midnight Man]

what I really mean

before the Dolly gig - loads of people were talking about watching her. After the Dolly gig - loads of people were talking about how they watched her. The figures the beeb got for showing her set were through the roof and I heard something about it being one of the biggest Pyramid crowds ever. People were impressed with her voice and impressed she could play all those instruments, my mate even commented on that. But the reality of it was she mimed and faked playing an instrument(s) and then had the audacity to deny it. hmmmn,

Did anyone really think for a moment she was playing those instruments? I thought it was pretty obvious they were meant to be props. The guitar for 'Jolene' was no worse than Chris Lowe (or non-original members of Kraftwerk) pretending to play keyboards; with the sax it was part of the joke - 'Playing the sax backwards' was more the point than highlighting her musical abilities . But then there is a serious sense of humour failure on this thread. Clearly we need a committee to stand in front of the Pyramid Stage and look for signs of duplicity or subterfuge and report back to the festival bookers!

[Ruwise]

To be honest whether someone does or doesn't do things live is not a major problem for me but I do think you are entitled to know if trickery such as miming or backing tracks or fake playing is being used if only because those who are doing it live shouldn't be expected to live up to the same standards.

It's a bit like expecting people to look in real life the way they do in photoshopped magazines. For some people I can forgive the theatrics they use because of the type of show they put on but I would like to know.

[Jules007]

whoooa, not at all. I havent mentioned my tastes at all. I've mentioned Dolly, Blondie, Metallica, Kasabian, Leonard Cohen, Nick Cave, Shakin Stevens and Dry The River. Out of that list there is only Dry The River I am a fan of.. the rest are some I like and some I dont - but I havent mentioned my tastes.

I have mentioned the difference between singing live and miming.

You are right though, she is an OAP... alot of people are... including Debbie Harry (who sung live).

You are missing the point by miles. I agree that if its either 'that' or no performance - I too would rather have 'that'.... but to deny miming is a big no-no.

Its all quite simple really, OAP (as you put it) mimes, some like it, some dont. Each to their own.

It was more the people have lost sight of the music comment, and how people are far too easily pleased. This is a preference of taste whether people find the 'awesome lasers' the best part of the gig. I'm sure it wouldn't be the same gig for those people without Kasabian as a backing track, and may well have been the stealer for them but it is part of a prop that adds to the overall experience. Afterall, they turned up to see a band they liked and got extra. Dolly arsing about with a fake sax or enhancing her out of breath voice - same thing.

I am totally with you on what is better (in my preference), the best thing I saw all weekend was Newton Faulkner and his guitar at Avalon, but some people are in the mood for a show, some like reflective music, some like skillfull, soulful, showful etc.

I just wish Dolly wasn't dissected too much, she's lovely and i couldnt care less if she mimed or if she even denied it.

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

Honestly. Cant see it. Some of it sounds a little too polished but i cant see any diff in sound vs visual.

Me either.

So many experts in this thread though

[Peaceman]

I was at the back for her set. Not a Dolly fan but wanted to see it. For the first few songs the sound was terrible - you could hardly hear it. A lot of us were chanting 'turn it up'. That included Jolene as I recall. Once that was sorted it was fine. Now, I dont work in music so Im not an expert. It was obvious she wasnt playing the sax - I thought that was part of the joke! But for the rest of it, I have no reason to doubt she was singing. The backing singers were certainly singing very loud and strong - presumably to cover for her. And, as has been said, she was ad-libbing and the like during songs. To me, that doesnt feel like miming.

As I say, not a fan. But that was a brilliant set and I was surprised just how many songs I knew.

[Peaceman]

Oh, and she certainly can play guitar and banjo and has done for many years. Doesnt prove anything of course but still.

[Miss_Boo]

Poor Dolly! She'd be doing backflips in someone's living room and they'd still be accusing her of not performing live.

I agree - why are we dissecting it so much? All these "experts" coming out of the woodwork and criticising etc etc.

I've never seen the crowd at the Pyramid stage so happy. And whether she sang 100% or 50% live, I couldn't care less. I think you'll find that hardly any act these days performs every gig totally live with no assistance.

[CaledonianGonzo]

It's not the Benny Hill theme tune.

It most certainly is. Listen for yourself:

http://youtu.be/VUOe_hLg7Bo

[Wooderson]

Apart from the sax I honestly don't see any miming.

Same for Jolene. I think she was singing it.

You thinking the sound of the guitar during Jolene came from her makes me go all Emperor... "Poor fool...".

[CaledonianGonzo]

I'm pretty sure that when he wrote it Benny Hill had it in mind for his TV show.

[Mr Ploppy]

What was the Laurel & Hardy Theme? If memory serves it was The cuckoo waltz... but how many people hear that tune and think "oh its the cuckoo waltz". Nope - they think "oh its the Laurel & Hardy theme".

The Benny Hill Theme is the Benny Hill theme. I'm sure sexist Benny didnt write it and I'm sure it was around long before Bennys boys used it as his theme...

But its still the Benny Hill theme!

[CaledonianGonzo]

It's a little known fact that Dolly played the banjo on Ernie, The Fastest Milkman In The West.

Edited July 7, 2014 by CaledonianGonzo

[Mr Ploppy]

It's a little known fact that Dolly played the banjo on Ernie, The Fastest Milkman In The West.

Nice!

And wasnt it Rod Stewart that played harmonica on My Boy Lollipop - or is that a silly myth type thingy. lol

[CaledonianGonzo]

John Peel played the saxophone on Baker Street.

And on the Benny Hill theme.

[stuartbert two hats]

No it. As bob holdness. John peel played mandolin on Maggie Mae.

All bollocks but many think it's true.

seek

John was miming.

[howlin_pete]

You thinking the sound of the guitar during Jolene came from her makes me go all Emperor... "Poor fool...".

To be fair, there is another guitarist behind her playing the main guitar part. Cant hear a second guitar in the mix mind, so dont know what dollys meant to be playing

[Mr Ploppy]

To be fair, there is another guitarist behind her playing the main guitar part. Cant hear a second guitar in the mix mind, so dont know what dollys meant to be playing

She's playin the fool.

Crazy fool! (in a B.A. stylie)

[CaledonianGonzo]

Boots Randolph was one of Benny Hill's many pseudonyms.

He also went by Randy Randolph, Randy Boots, Benny Boots, Randy Hill and Wee Benny Hillyboots.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Ironically, Benny Hill was something of a mime performer himself.