alt fest 2014

[gjammer]

There was a small group of about 6 of us due to go but we all held back on buying tickets. I was just about to pay for 4 about a month back when I had a gut feeling to wait. Glad I did but I think this is maybe what a lot of people did hence the low sales on what looked to be a great line up

[Gnomicide]

There was a small group of about 6 of us due to go but we all held back on buying tickets. I was just about to pay for 4 about a month back when I had a gut feeling to wait. Glad I did but I think this is maybe what a lot of people did hence the low sales on what looked to be a great line up

This sort of thing could contribute to festivals failing but you can't blame punters for being cautious with so many festivals being cancelled. I've done it myself, twice.

Two festivals in the last 10 years or so where proposed close to where I live, one collapsed completely, the other went ahead but was a disaster by all accounts. Both times I just couldn't see the festival happening, especially the one that failed, one of the headliners was due to be Suzi Quatro (!), a few others were announced along with quite a big capacity and it wasn't cheap. The park it was due to be set up in screamed fence jumpers and easy ways in, parking would be a problem, traffic would be horrendous, it just didn't add up, the line up was shite... I'd still decided to go at least one day but held back suspecting it wouldn't go ahead. It was cancelled about a month before it was due to kick off citing poor ticket sales.

[eFestivals]

It was cancelled about a month before it was due to kick off citing poor ticket sales.

A month before is the norm for cancellations, as contractors and agents expect something to be paid up-front.

With Alt-fest it appears to be the case from the timescales of everything - I'm guessing - that that managed to string the agents (if not others) along for a while with promises of imminent payment until the state of everything became public when the major agents cancelled the more-major bands.

It seems to be the case that lots of other things that would have been required for the fest had already been lost before that point. For example, when the news broke of it being in trouble via the bands saying they'd cancelled I looked at the website of the land it would have been using, and Alt-fest had already (I'm presuming it was listed at some point) been removed - and I suspect that had happened a while before.

Edited August 12, 2014 by eFestivals

[retromoz]

I realise there were other factors for this.......but (being devils advocate) I am surprised that ATP seem to be getting FAR less vitriol that Alt Fest is getting. especially as it was cancelled only a few days before the event. AND that ATP has 'previous' in this area.

(btw, i LOVE ATP and love what they do.)

[eFestivals]

I realise there were other factors for this.......but (being devils advocate) I am surprised that ATP seem to be getting FAR less vitriol that Alt Fest is getting. especially as it was cancelled only a few days before the event. AND that ATP has 'previous' in this area.

(btw, i LOVE ATP and love what they do.)

It's not entirely the same thing for a number of different reasons (see my posts in the ATP thread), tho I get where you're coming from.

I don't feel i've been vitriolic about Alt-fest, btw (if it was me those words were aimed at). I've tried to be fair, and to keep things within fair comment.

As for ATP, I suspect it's now used up its last chance. Which is a shame really, because they did at least have something pretty unique (which can't be said about too many fests).

[zahidf]

I realise there were other factors for this.......but (being devils advocate) I am surprised that ATP seem to be getting FAR less vitriol that Alt Fest is getting. especially as it was cancelled only a few days before the event. AND that ATP has 'previous' in this area.

(btw, i LOVE ATP and love what they do.)

Trust me, ATP is getting a lot more vitriol than Alt Fest online. I think people are a bit sadder though, because they have been going years and supplied many great festivals/gigs (IMO)

[retromoz]

I don't feel i've been vitriolic about Alt-fest, btw (if it was me those words were aimed at).

Not at all, fella. Just a general comment, really. I just thought it were interesting that, on the things i was looking at, there doesnt seem to be as much hate for ATP. I guess there is a lot of love for them, as they have done lots of good things (for example, the BEST things i saw at Primavera Sound was on their currated stage.....).

I Think, maybe, as a LOT of bands due to play were playing elsewhere (notably Green Man. 1 day to go. WOOP!!!), it seemed an odd festival to have & not 'unique' enough, maybe.

Course, i dont have any 'other' inside info like wot you have. ;p

[atomised]

Seems that club tickets are no longer in existence

[rawaudioinput]

Just seen this:

After the meeting today I came away with a profound sense of sadness. I can kiss goodbye to my pitch fee as can many others.
My understanding of events is as follows:
• Those of you who bought tickets through clubtickets- this debt has been personally guaranteed by Dom and Missy this amounts to £693,109. The owner of clubtickets is believed to have retreated to Ibiza where he runs Ibiza Nights, he’s not answering his phone even to the liquidators. Some of you will have noticed the company website is no longer functioning, the liquidators expect the firm to go into administration in the next couple of weeks. You should also have the protection of your credit card companies;
• Those of you who invested in Kickstarter by Paypal this debt is also thought to be in the directors personal names This amounts to £87,595. You should get your money back;
• Despite rumours to the contrary, Dom and Missy were paid £6400 each during the two years, they also had a Directors’ Loan of £21,546- the liquidator stated they have no visible means to repay this and D & M would in all probability have to file for personal bankruptcy.
• If Dom and Missy do file for personal bankruptcy, which I suspect they will have to, then I have no idea what happens. Paypal and your credit card companies/banks should have insurance against this;
• All monies paid to them by clubtickets were spent on band deposits (Marylyn Manson has had over 100k and due to the terms of his contract is due even more), PR companies, advertising, booking agents etc. I don’t know why these funds were actually released before the event had taken place.
• 7,600 tickets were sold. If the maths was done correctly at the beginning tickets would have been more expensive, but that’s another story.
• The company who were actually running the festival ` SWG’ also run Glasto, nobody expected them to be cavalier with the projected costs but it appears they `guestimated’ rather a lot and by the time a second company were involved a shortfall of 400k was identified. More backers were found but unfortunately the promised funds could not be released in time. I asked if there was any comeback against the company and this is being looked in to.

Dom and Missy stand to lose everything. They made heart felt apologies to the five people who bothered to turn up. Both were in tears when I left.

Putting it into perspective, on my way home on the M40, three miles from the venue the London bound carriage way was closed, Firemen were cutting people out of an over turned vehicle and a covered body was being put into the ambulance. Says it all really.

*edit*
SWG apparently run some of the stages at Glasto. If this reads that they are entirely to blame then my English isn't as concise as I intended.

[Ringo_Spar]

£350,000 for Marilyn Manson, £100,000 for The Cult... "in order to compete against the larger festivals we had to put in very strong offers to be listened to by the agents and hence secure the talent"

There's one born every minute.

[eFestivals]

Those of you who bought tickets through clubtickets- this debt has been personally guaranteed by Dom and Missy this amounts to £693,109. The owner of clubtickets is believed to have retreated to Ibiza where he runs Ibiza Nights, hes not answering his phone even to the liquidators. Some of you will have noticed the company website is no longer functioning, the liquidators expect the firm to go into administration in the next couple of weeks. You should also have the protection of your credit card companies

Hmmm, not sure of the truth of this. Doing a 'whois' on the ClubTickets domain suggests that ClubTickets are a company attached to another ticketing venture.

So, who is now going to trust ticketlogic? (they're still trading by the look of things).

Domain Name: CLUBTICKETS.COM

Registrant Organization: Clubtickets Limited

Registrant Street: 6-8 Standard Place Rivington St

Registrant City: London

Registrant State/Province: London

Registrant Postal Code: EC2A 3BE

Registrant Country: GB

Registrant Phone: +44.8455191909

Registrant Phone Ext:

Registrant Fax:

Registrant Fax Ext:

Registrant Email: domains@ticketlogic.net

from https://who.is/whois/clubtickets.com

Domain Name: TICKETLOGIC.NET

Registrant Name: Domain Admin

Registrant Organization: Clubtickets Ltd

Registrant Street: 6-8 Standard Place Rivington St

Registrant City: London

Registrant State/Province: London

Registrant Postal Code: EC2A 3BE

Registrant Country: GB

Registrant Phone: +44.8455191909

Registrant Phone Ext:

Registrant Fax:

Registrant Fax Ext:

Registrant Email: domains@ticketlogic.net

from https://who.is/whois/ticketlogic.net

The company who were actually running the festival ` SWG also run Glasto

SWG apparently run some of the stages at Glasto. If this reads that they are entirely to blame then my English isn't as concise as I intended.

I've never heard of 'SWG', but presumably they're simply an infrastructure supplier of some sort.

Edited August 22, 2014 by eFestivals

[retromoz]

the plot thickens........

[eFestivals]

£350,000 for Marilyn Manson, £100,000 for The Cult... "in order to compete against the larger festivals we had to put in very strong offers to be listened to by the agents and hence secure the talent"

There's one born every minute.

I'm not sure how those amounts compare to the more-normal fees for those acts, but it's definitely the case that a new event would need to pay a substantially greater amount to secure a 'big act than would an established premium event of the sort of that MM would be more likely to normally perform at.

So I feel it going a bit far to say "there's one born every minute" just purely in relation to what they were willing to pay for those acts (as long as the amounts paid wasn't very stupidly greater than the 'normal fee' - tho I don't know what the norm is for these acts. I do know what some acts fees are tho, and in comparison these don't seem utterly stupid).

Unless us punters want our choices to be limited forever to what the established big boys offer, then we need to be supportive of others trying to break thru. Breaking thru is always going to involve paying higher band fees, so that alone is no reason for condemnation.

And there's lots of dodgy operators too - such as clubtickets from what has been posted above. At least Dom and Missy have had the bottle to face up to their failure from what is posted above, and for that that have my admiration. They at least come out of this looking like honest operators, even if their ambition was beyond their competence.

[jk1]

Hmmm, not sure of the truth of this. Doing a 'whois' on the ClubTickets domain suggests that ClubTickets are a company attached to another ticketing venture.

So, who is now going to trust ticketlogic? (they're still trading by the look of things).

Domain Name: CLUBTICKETS.COM

Registrant Organization: Clubtickets Limited

Registrant Street: 6-8 Standard Place Rivington St

Registrant City: London

Registrant State/Province: London

Registrant Postal Code: EC2A 3BE

Registrant Country: GB

Registrant Phone: +44.8455191909

Registrant Phone Ext:

Registrant Fax:

Registrant Fax Ext:

Registrant Email: domains@ticketlogic.net

from https://who.is/whois/clubtickets.com

Domain Name: TICKETLOGIC.NET

Registrant Name: Domain Admin

Registrant Organization: Clubtickets Ltd

Registrant Street: 6-8 Standard Place Rivington St

Registrant City: London

Registrant State/Province: London

Registrant Postal Code: EC2A 3BE

Registrant Country: GB

Registrant Phone: +44.8455191909

Registrant Phone Ext:

Registrant Fax:

Registrant Fax Ext:

Registrant Email: domains@ticketlogic.net

from https://who.is/whois/ticketlogic.net

I've never heard of 'SWG', but presumably they're simply an infrastructure supplier of some sort.

I think that is a bit harsh on Club Tickets. Ticket Logic looks to be the software side of their operation showing organisers what they can do for their event. Without an actual site selling the tickets then I don't see how they be trading.

It was a well established ticket agency that had been going over a decade covering a lot of club nights and EDM type events. It was a proper ticket agent that seems to have been wiped out solely because of the failture of Alt Fest. No doubt a poor/naive decision to pay them out before the event though.

I'm guessing Alt Fest used them because none of the mainstream ticket agents would pay them in advance and I'm guessing Club Tickets paid them because they'd run events with Dom & Missy for a long time. Club Tickets have now been wiped out through the failure of Alt Fest.

Without being at the Creditors meeting and only reading through the lines in what has been said, I take it to mean where the 700k of tickets sold are "personally guaranteed" by Dom & Missy that they signed a personal guarantee with Club Tickets. If/When Club Tickets go into liquidation then their liqudiators will pursue them to honour that guarantee. As I doubt they have 700k under the couch and they also have overdrawn directors loan accounts (a very dim view is taken of this) then they will almost certainly go bankrupt if this is true.

It just seems to begger belief that they would sign personal guarantees amounting to these sort of figures. Literally everything on the line. I think it just goes to show how badly run this was and how poor any advice that they did receive was. Utter madness as they got nowhere near their break even figure of £1.7M.

I agree though that the only thing they're guilty of is being incompetent.

[eFestivals]

I think that is a bit harsh on Club Tickets. Ticket Logic looks to be the software side of their operation

People are people, and I detest the idea of any person hiding behind a legal construct to enable to them to stay rich while others lose the shirt off their backs.

Just because that's how it is it doesn't mean I have to think it's a good thing.

(and do bear in mind just how much money I could personally make if set my businesses up in much the same way )

Dom & Missy ...

It just seems to begger belief that they would sign personal guarantees amounting to these sort of figures. Literally everything on the line. I think it just goes to show how badly run this was and how poor any advice that they did receive was.

Bad advice, perhaps - tho it's quite possibly the only way things could be structured so that the finances could work (if enough tickets were sold).

They were prepared to take that risk onto themselves, and ultimately that's a good thing. It's a much better motivator for them managing to do a successful event than if they stood to lose nothing personally.

Utter madness as they got nowhere near their break even figure of £1.7M.

I agree though that the only thing they're guilty of is being incompetent.

Hope trumping all common sense, yep.

Tho I think it's very likely that there were plenty riding on Dom & Missy's backs knowing that was the case, but who didn't care too much because they felt they'd come out of it well, even if the event failed to happen.

You mention bad financial advice above, tho the impact of that is purely back on Dom & Missy. They'll be plenty of 'festival specialists' - contractors, agents, etc - who also gave them advice, but which was self-serving advice and not good advice for a viable event. There's some shame there that should be highlighted.

Edited August 23, 2014 by eFestivals

[jk1]

Re Club Tickets. I really don't see what they have done wrong here or how they have benefitted from it. Rather quite the opposite losing a reputable business in the scene in which it operated.

Of course their creditors will lose out if they ultimately go under and some people who bought tickets for Alt Fest who aren't covered by the card providers will lose that but unless we hear otherwise they passed on the money in good faith and have had their business wrecked as well by all this. Doesn't sound ideal them not getting in touch with people and just disappearing though but if they haven't got the money they haven't got the money.

I too detest serial phoenixers though and over the years I've lost plenty to them and learnt the hard way with certain people who run their businesses in that manner but doesn't seem like Club Tickets have benefitted here or that there are any signs of them starting up again under a new guise

[eFestivals]

Re Club Tickets. I really don't see what they have done wrong here or how they have benefitted from it. Rather quite the opposite losing a reputable business in the scene in which it operated.Of course their creditors will lose out if they ultimately go under and some people who bought tickets for Alt Fest who aren't covered by the card providers will lose that but unless we hear otherwise they passed on the money in good faith and have had their business wrecked as well by all this. Doesn't sound ideal them not getting in touch with people and just disappearing though but if they haven't got the money they haven't got the money.

I too detest serial phoenixers though and over the years I've lost plenty to them and learnt the hard way with certain people who run their businesses in that manner but doesn't seem like Club Tickets have benefitted here or that there are any signs of them starting up again under a new guise

Legit businessmen with integrity normally run away, do they?

Dom & Missy have faced the consequences of their poor business choices, but Club who won't face the consequences have done nothing wrong and are doing nothing wrong? Yeah, right.

I'll avoid going further into this because that would be purely speculation - tho the sort of speculation that normally matches the facts in instances like this.