Nick Cave

[Clarence Clemons]

Nick Cave spot on as usual!

[Gilgamesh69]

"Unlike the rest of you snowflakes, I'm not so easily offended" - Nick Cave

 

Wow, I know he's an old white male but I didn't think he was THAT gammon

[priest17]

these last 2 posts encapsulate the opposite ends of peoples nick cave thoughts so well I don't mind that mine was 3 paragraphs of indecisive ramblings now.

[Mr.Tease]

39 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

"Unlike the rest of you snowflakes, I'm not so easily offended" - Nick Cave

 

Wow, I know he's an old white male but I didn't think he was THAT gammon

Disappointing stuff. I think if you're white, heterosexual, male etc, then discussions around racism towards minorities, homophobia, sexism, probably seem rather abstract and 'intellectual' but for people in those groups, they have real life consequences - I know if some tit is on TV espousing racism, I'll likely eventually cop it. It infuriates me that people behind the anti-cancel culture (such a stupid, disingenuous term) stuff don't get that. 

A lot of them seem to think they should be free to campaign against the rights and respect of those minorities, using their privileged position, but should not have their rights infringed in any way for doing so, and should face no consequences for their actions. Tossers! 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Mr.Tease

[blutarsky]

27 minutes ago, priest17 said:

these last 2 posts encapsulate the opposite ends of peoples nick cave thoughts so well I don't mind that mine was 3 paragraphs of indecisive ramblings now.

I think he’s tried to wrote a nuanced piece about a two sided argument, but seems to have dismissed one side of said argument. 

I’m reading it as a bit of a lament of how society seems to be so polarised. You must choose a position and stick to it. No room to say, “actually now I’ve considered it, I think I may have been a bit misguided before”. 

Unfortunately by labelling cancel culture the antithesis of mercy he dismisses the idea there should be consequences to taking up indefensible positions. He does caveat it by saying it’s “well-intentioned”, but anyone who’s going to be offended by it isn’t going to acknowledge that. 

Personally I think the sad reality of life right now is this is a debate that’s impossible to have without offending the majority of people at either end of the spectrum. 

We are a society where a majority is without nuance or critical thinking. 

EDIT: to add, I don’t think you can use this piece to make any judgment on Cave, as I’m not sure he makes a really clear statement with it. I wouldn’t label him gammon or snowflake based on it. Such labels are unhelpful. 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by blutarsky

[blutarsky]

34 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

"Unlike the rest of you snowflakes, I'm not so easily offended" - Nick Cave

 

Wow, I know he's an old white male but I didn't think he was THAT gammon

The article doesn’t include that quote - where did it come from? 

[Zoo Music Girl]

4 minutes ago, blutarsky said:

The article doesn’t include that quote - where did it come from? 

Yeah that's what I was wondering. Maybe a previous interview?

I'm torn on this one. Having read the piece yesterday I do think there's a fair degree of nuance and I actually do have some issues with the whole immediate move to cancel anyone without them being allowed the chance to change, discuss or grow. It's complicated. I think Jon Ronson has interesting stuff to say on this. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

Should add also that none of this surprises me about Cave! He's said similar on the topic before, but it hasn't been picked up in the same way for some reason.

[Mr.Tease]

2 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Yeah that's what I was wondering. Maybe a previous interview?

I'm torn on this one. Having read the piece yesterday I do think there's a fair degree of nuance and I actually do have some issues with the whole immediate move to cancel anyone without them being allowed the chance to change, discuss or grow. It's complicated. I think Jon Ronson has interesting stuff to say on this. 

And there in lies the rub with the 'anti cancel culture' movement--its merged people who think people should be able to learn from mistakes (which I have no problem with, I think everyone messes up) , etc with those who think it's all 'political correctness gone mad' brigade and that Katie Hopkins should have newspaper and TV platforms to spout her vile stuff, which is why I'd stay well clear of it. 

 

[Matt42]

And I ooop

[blutarsky]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

And there in lies the rub with the 'anti cancel culture' movement--its merged people who think people should be able to learn from mistakes (which I have no problem with, I think everyone messes up) , etc with those who think it's all 'political correctness gone mad' brigade and that Katie Hopkins should have newspaper and TV platforms to spout her vile stuff, which is why I'd stay well clear of it. 

 

Good post. 

There’s this bizarre situation where “woke” people with the ability to forgive or see different perspectives are having their argument seized upon by bigots who see a nuanced argument as essentially the same as their rigid position. 

And other ‘woke’ figures don’t help as they turn on anyone who expresses nuance. Classic case of the left tearing the left apart. 

[WestCountryGirl]

Political correctness, learning, growing, challenging people with whom you disagree, calling people out when they say something offensive - all good. 

"Cancel culture", I have no time for. I don't think it helps that it is also messily tied up with "stan-culture", wherein people (largely, I have to hope, teenagers) leap on the tiniest misstep to try to get others "cancelled" just because they don't like their work.

[CaledonianGonzo]

13 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Should add also that none of this surprises me about Cave! He's said similar on the topic before, but it hasn't been picked up in the same way for some reason.

Agreed. He's always struck me as - at best - a bit libertarian. Or actually quite reactionary.

[priest17]

To be honest most the reaction is proving his point, people are reading the headlines and throwing him in with Morrissey. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

Yeah Morrissey's not been cancelled either.

[Mr.Tease]

8 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Yeah Morrissey's not been cancelled either.

Which is the irony-- very few people have actually been 'cancelled' most of the 'victims' have simply acquired tosser status

[CaledonianGonzo]

Just now, Mr.Tease said:

Which is the irony-- very few people have actually been 'cancelled' most of the 'victims' have simply acquired tosser status

Almost like it's largely confected by the far right as a bad faith wedge issue. 

[Gilgamesh69]

46 minutes ago, blutarsky said:

The article doesn’t include that quote - where did it come from? 

The quote isn't real, I was memeing 😅

But on a more serious note:

Obviously I don't think cancel culture should be so "oppressive" that people are not allowed to repent and learn from their mistakes. And frankly I don't like it when people go digging up minor shit from yeaaaars ago (that guy who was on I'm A Celebrity Comes to Mind but I can't remember his name). Also, comedy/art is a slightly different kettle of fish.

 

However, so many people of the working class struggle to live. Working multiple jobs and yet still only just getting by. They're one crisis, one bastard landlord, one asshole boss away from ruin. So all we're asking these privileged fucks to do is simply not be dickheads. It's really not that difficult to not be so blatantly racist/sexist/transphobic/homophobic/etc. If they lose their jobs and livelihood because they say something shitty, then it's their own fault. To quote Rome Total War: "Woe to the conquered" 🤷‍♂️

[Tuna]

26 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Almost like it's largely confected by the far right as a bad faith wedge issue. 

seems to be more of a twitter-loving wet centrist thing to me?

[CaledonianGonzo]

Liberals do seem to be taken in by it, yes.

 

[Winslow Leach]

Not sure why anyone is surprised by this: Cave being a War on Woke w*nker is about as surprising as Kate Bush being a Tory or Van Morrison's flirtations with Scientology. 

Maybe Mr Reasoned Debater, The Goth Motivator is launching a pre-emptive strike in case someone digs up the *ahem* questionable things both him and Morrissey said about Stevie Wonder back in the day. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Winslow Leach

[Winslow Leach]

Anyway, the only good Famous Person take on cANceL CuLtURe is Abel Ferrara.

 

Many of your compatriots have been canceled. How do you feel about that phenomenon? 

What do you mean by cancelled?

Like Woody Allen. He cannot work.

He works. He makes movies and he just wrote a book. It’s a complicated issue. Because I grew up with the Women’s Movement. So in the early '70s, when I was a university student, this was an all-powerful thing, like #MeToo in certain ways. I have three daughters. I know what their life is like out there in the world. It’s very tough. And two of my daughters are Black, so, that’s even tougher, and it breaks my heart. I kept saying to myself, where is this woman’s movement? And then in the last four or five years, it [has emerged] in a big way. It’s like what’s happened in the last month — the recognition of what it’s like to really be Black in the United States. So, I don’t know about being cancelled. It’s a scary word. It’s like being deleted, eliminated. But everyone has to confront — I’m a Buddhist, so I’ll say it — your karma. Your actions are going to define who and what you are, and you’ve got to answer to it. But you could overcome it. You could rise. It’s not an execution. I mean every one of us, everybody who’s in jail, they’re not dead. So, they have to try to make amends for what they have done and who they hurt. And that’s it. Right now, things are happening fast. What did Vladimir Lenin say? Sometimes decades go by and nothing happens, and sometimes weeks go by, and decades happen. I think that’s what’s happening now. I hope what went down in the last month is really going to inspire some real change.

[Gilgamesh69]

17 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

 the *ahem* questionable things both him and Morrissey said about Stevie Wonder back in the day. 

Oooh now I wanna know more.

 

 

P.s. I'm choosing to believe that Kate isn't a Tory

[WestCountryGirl]

4 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

 

P.s. I'm choosing to believe that Kate isn't a Tory

I choose to take her word for it 😊

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/jan/08/kate-bush-clarifies-political-stance-i-am-not-a-tory-supporter

[Superscally]

21 hours ago, Winslow Leach said:

Not sure why anyone is surprised by this: Cave being a War on Woke w*nker is about as surprising as Kate Bush being a Tory or Van Morrison's flirtations with Scientology. 

Maybe Mr Reasoned Debater, The Goth Motivator is launching a pre-emptive strike in case someone digs up the *ahem* questionable things both him and Morrissey said about Stevie Wonder back in the day. 

Hardly a w*nker. Did you actually read the post?