Jump to content

General News Discussion


Barry Fish
 Share

Recommended Posts

good to see Sturgeon's cautious approach, with her being so cautious for the people of Scotland to be better-protected via face masks.

If they're needed, why the fuck are they needed in ten days time but not now? :blink: There's proper Spaffer logic in that one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Neil said:

map I saw yesterday, which I was unable to find this morning.

If it interests you that much, it's in yesterday's Guardian UK covid 'live' blog. Perhaps you can find it.

I'd imagine its this one.

image.png.c8207fd9d05223be06b0eea0a347b172.png 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/02/coronavirus-uk-map-latest-deaths-confirmed-covid-19-cases-england-wales-scotland-northern-ireland

This is today's - I couldn't find yesterday's but it won't have changed much as it shows the total cases NOT the current cases. Funnily enough when deciding local lockdowns, the total cases are a fair bit less relevant than the current cases.

On the off chance that you weren't talking complete shite, I also took a wee tour around Unionist twitter. Now, these guys are already convinced that the restrictions in Dumfries and Galloway are part of a fiendish anti-English plot and if there were a shred of evidence that somewhere else in Scotland had more live cases & wasn't facing similar restrictions you can be 100% certain these guys would be shouting it from the rooftops. But not a peep could I fine.

All but her most deranged critics grudgingly accept that Sturgeon is a pretty astute politician. It beggars belief that she would do anything as politically daft as you are alleging. It would be a massive own goal.

I await your apology.

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Neil said:

good to see Sturgeon's cautious approach, with her being so cautious for the people of Scotland to be better-protected via face masks.

If they're needed, why the fuck are they needed in ten days time but not now? :blink: There's proper Spaffer logic in that one.

:P 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Neil said:

good to see Sturgeon's cautious approach, with her being so cautious for the people of Scotland to be better-protected via face masks.

If they're needed, why the fuck are they needed in ten days time but not now? :blink: There's proper Spaffer logic in that one.

There is some logic to your point (although you arithmetic is poor - they will be needed in 7  days - not 10) but the whole focus of our discussion is about whether Scotland is coming out of lockdown more cautiously than England &  Wales & here again we clearly are being more cautious.

Sturgeon has also regularly been imploring us to wear masks in shops. I guess as lockdown eases, her logic would be that   wearing masks becomes more important.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, LJS said:

There is some logic to your point (although you arithmetic is poor - they will be needed in 7  days - not 10) but the whole focus of our discussion is about whether Scotland is coming out of lockdown more cautiously than England &  Wales & here again we clearly are being more cautious.

But when england has been more cautious, they don't count.

 

8 minutes ago, LJS said:

Sturgeon has also regularly been imploring us to wear masks in shops.

But with the power to legally enforce it she hasn't bothered to enforce it. Proper Spaffer method, again.

Still not enforced on planes, either.

 

8 minutes ago, LJS said:

I guess as lockdown eases, her logic would be that   wearing masks becomes more important.

A logic-based version wouldn't work like that.

Firstly, a person would need to think masks help stop the spread.

And then logic would say - if your aim is to stop the spread - that masks need to be worn NOW.

There is no logic in saying they're more needed later than they're needed now, no logic at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

But when england has been more cautious, they don't count.

Give me a couple of examples. i can't think of any

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

 

But with the power to legally enforce it she hasn't bothered to enforce it. Proper Spaffer method, again.

She has now. Mr Johnston hasn't.

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

Still not enforced on planes, either.

"In Scotland, it is also compulsory to wear face coverings on all public transport, including buses, planes, ferries and taxis."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51205344

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

 

A logic-based version wouldn't work like that.

Firstly, a person would need to think masks help stop the spread.

And then logic would say - if your aim is to stop the spread - that masks need to be worn NOW.

There is no logic in saying they're more needed later than they're needed now, no logic at all.

yes there is - the more you allow people to come into close contact with each other - the more important other measures - such as face masks become. i think there is fair argument that she should have done it sooner but the fact is she has done it. Mr Johnston hasn't.

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

Not really.

Fucking stupid is always fucking stupid. It's a constant, nothing is moveable with that.

I demonstrated that your claim of a map that showed other areas of scotland with current high incidence of Covid 19 was bullshit, you replied with a comment about Indy.

image.png.e50df66814d1ad07d1023c1fa4314a10.png

Found the map yet?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Darren Grimes & David Starkey. Not entirely sure why I started watching this & I could only stomach about 20 minutes. Two more astoundingly unpleasant  arrogant, entitled twats, you will not see for a long time.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I give Sturgeon a lot of credit for being a good communicator and it’s clearly good political strategy to appear more careful than Johnson. But I don’t think you can fit a fag paper between the two policies in actuality. Remember all the derision at changes to the two metre rule, which Sturgeon ended up abolishing entirely for schools in Scotland when it met with reality.

At the very least, the areas where Scotland is being more cautious are pretty marginal. Eg many people already wearing masks indoors in England, lock-down easing in both England and Scotland has been reactive to the public mood not leading it, etc. I do agree that there’s a little more caution but I think there’s a lot more presentation of caution. That in itself might mean Scots are being more vigilant, though my instinct is that other factors like demographics outweigh all of this. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Neil said:

I do know if you open pubs just 2 days later the virus disappears completely

Despite my post above, Sturgeon is right on this one. Opening pubs with a bang on a Saturday is a stupid move. Far better to open them on a Monday and let those desperate to return do so when they are naturally quieter. This is a bigger difference than you give credit for (admittedly one of pretty few!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, JoshD said:

Despite my post above, Sturgeon is right on this one. Opening pubs with a bang on a Saturday is a stupid move. Far better to open them on a Monday and let those desperate to return do so when they are naturally quieter. This is a bigger difference than you give credit for (admittedly one of pretty few!)

It's only beer gardens that are opening Monday. And 2 metres social distancing applies. Indoor pubs need to wait until July 15th.

I think you underestimate the difference. Scotland may only be a week or 2 behind England & Wales on most measures but we also seem to have a lower infection level so we could ease measures at the same time and we'd still be more cautious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, LJS said:

Give me a couple of examples. i can't think of any

masks on planes. Not next week, last week.

Same as masks generally, it's a no-brainer measure (if you aim is to do the best).

Not doing masks is failing to do everything you can to tackle the virus.

 

Quote

She has now. Mr Johnston hasn't.

"In Scotland, it is also compulsory to wear face coverings on all public transport, including buses, planes, ferries and taxis."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51205344

Ahh, K ... she got round to it somewhen recently then, and I missed it.

Masks on planes were required in England before Scotland. I raised it a while back, remember, about how they could take their masks off as they flew into Scottish regional airspace.

 

Quote

yes there is - the more you allow people to come into close contact with each other - the more important other measures

yeah, shops get extra dangerous next week. (delete as applicable) shops aren't dangerous this week / Scots are currently starving to death. :D 

Someone being extra-cautious would be being extra cautious.

12 hours ago, LJS said:

Mr Johnston hasn't.

it's not a race Sturgeon can win until 9th July. Spaffer might beat her yet. 

Which of course would be shameful for Sturgeon, to be beaten by Spaffer. :P 

When Spaffer is the benchmark that Sturgeon is barely reaching, how wonderful do you think Sturgeon is, again...? :D 

Edited by Neil
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Neil said:

masks on planes. Not next week, last week.

Same as masks generally, it's a no-brainer measure (if you aim is to do the best).

Not doing masks is failing to do everything you can to tackle the virus.

 

Ahh, K ... she got round to it somewhen recently then, and I missed it.

Masks on planes were required in England before Scotland. I raised it a while back, remember, about how they could take their masks off as they flew into Scottish regional airspace.

 

yeah, shops get extra dangerous next week. (delete as applicable) shops aren't dangerous this week / Scots are currently starving to death. :D 

Someone being extra-cautious would be being extra cautious.

it's not a race Sturgeon can win until 9th July. Spaffer might beat her yet. 

Which of course would be shameful for Sturgeon, to be beaten by Spaffer. :P 

When Spaffer is the benchmark that Sturgeon is barely reaching, how wonderful do you think Sturgeon is, again...? :D 

So masks is all you have & all that is is Scotland making them compulsory on public transport a week later than England, which is still arguably more cautious due to a) lower infection rates up here & b) less folk on public transport for to less folk being urged to go back to work.

& Yes you're right all I'm saying is Sturgeon is being more cautious than Johnston. For some reason, you can't bring yourself to agree with that simple & blindingly obvious statement. It does not require you to say Sturgeon is wonderful. Merely competent.

 

Found your map yet?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, LJS said:

So masks is all you have & all that is is Scotland making them compulsory on public transport a week later than England, which is still arguably more cautious due to a) lower infection rates up here & b) less folk on public transport for to less folk being urged to go back to work.

as I've already mentioned, the going back to work thing is being hugely overstated by you. Just because it's allowed doesn't mean it's happening much (and the buses are social-distanced anyway).

 

Quote

& Yes you're right all I'm saying is Sturgeon is being more cautious than Johnston. For some reason, you can't bring yourself to agree with that simple & blindingly obvious statement. It does not require you to say Sturgeon is wonderful. Merely competent.

'More cautious' is an over-statement. It's more about 'differently' than 'more-cautious' - and we all know that Sturgeon looks to do different as her default anyway.

But if you want to claim Sturgeon as superior to Spaffer you're welcome. It's not a high bar.

 

Quote

Found your map yet?

I've found another map (just now, via a link in the main covid discussion here), and I'm happy to tell you I appear to be wrong.

So let's have this map (from here)...

_113216513_opti-uk_cases_map_2jul-nc.png

.... which shows the whole of the UK as the same, apart from just a few spots which are not (including in Wales which seems to be off Sturgeon's radar for some reason).

And it's just about inevitable that Scotland will get a hot spot sooner or later. It's just about down to luck for that sort of thing, because you will always have variance as you break the average from the whole down into regions.

---

Saw on the news earlier about Loch Lomond getting ready to open up. I wonder if it'll be as busy as during lockdown when it does? :P 

Edited by Neil
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Neil said:

as I've already mentioned, the going back to work thing is being hugely overstated by you. Just because it's allowed doesn't mean it's happening much (and the buses are social-distanced anyway).

pretty sure a fair amount of construction work has resumed in England - only just starting up here. Shops opened 2 weeks earlier down your way (that's work)

7 hours ago, Neil said:

 

'More cautious' is an over-statement. It's more about 'differently' than 'more-cautious' - and we all know that Sturgeon looks to do different as her default anyway.

many disagree with you

image.png.7adbbb37d351f904c81d3138b8a6e75a.png

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/11/scottish-firms-fear-nicola-sturgeons-cautious-lockdown-exit/

image.png.c0ec297c2dd5302e960c18dc20bbc56d.png

 

https://www.ft.com/content/41010578-7533-48f4-afcf-872e5190f102

 

Coronavirus: Scotland and Wales remain more cautious over easing lockdown

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-scotland-and-wales-remain-more-cautious-over-easing-lockdown-11986569

Coronavirus in Scotland: Businesses ‘frustrated’ by cautious Nicola Sturgeon

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-in-scotland-businesses-frustrated-by-cautious-nicola-sturgeon-9cn0l0mb2

7 hours ago, Neil said:

But if you want to claim Sturgeon as superior to Spaffer you're welcome. It's not a high bar.

I want to claim her as more cautious. For some inexplicable reason, you won't accept this.

7 hours ago, Neil said:

 

I've found another map (just now, via a link in the main covid discussion here), and I'm happy to tell you I appear to be wrong.

So let's have this map (from here)...

_113216513_opti-uk_cases_map_2jul-nc.png

.... which shows the whole of the UK as the same, apart from just a few spots which are not (including in Wales which seems to be off Sturgeon's radar for some reason).

Not sure we have a border with Wales. that might be something to do with it.  Sturgeon has only brought up the English border in response to media questions. no one has asked her about the border with Wales.

7 hours ago, Neil said:

And it's just about inevitable that Scotland will get a hot spot sooner or later. It's just about down to luck for that sort of thing, because you will always have variance as you break the average from the whole down into regions.

I am sure you are right - indeed we have a smallish hotspot in Dumfries & Galloway which appears to be under control. I have no doubt there will be moreas lockdown is eased. Although Sturgeon has been more cautious, that doesn't eliminate risk - it merely reduces it (hopefully) 

7 hours ago, Neil said:

---

Saw on the news earlier about Loch Lomond getting ready to open up. I wonder if it'll be as busy as during lockdown when it does? :P 

It was busy for one day - then the police took measures to stop a repeat - perhaps another example of caution up here.  The forecast here is pretty dismal for the weekend up here so hopefully that will allow me to shout about Scottish Exceptionationalism!!!

You got the alarm set for 5.30 a.m. to get to the pub nice & early?

I do find it amusing that having been closed for months, opening pubs at 6 a.m. is being presented as responsible. 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, LJS said:

pretty sure a fair amount of construction work has resumed in England - only just starting up here. Shops opened 2 weeks earlier down your way (that's work)

The shops are allowed to open but not so many are. Bristol city centre was waaaaay quieter than I expected when I visited (just out walking) last Saturday.

Building sites are much like being in the park.

 

55 minutes ago, LJS said:

Who knew that businesses are piling on the pressure?

 

55 minutes ago, LJS said:

Coronavirus: Scotland and Wales remain more cautious over easing lockdown

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-scotland-and-wales-remain-more-cautious-over-easing-lockdown-11986569

Coronavirus in Scotland: Businesses ‘frustrated’ by cautious Nicola Sturgeon

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-in-scotland-businesses-frustrated-by-cautious-nicola-sturgeon-9cn0l0mb2

I want to claim her as more cautious. For some inexplicable reason, you won't accept this.

I'm saying it's mostly bollocks, about being different. If it was really about caution she'd have surely done the obvious things first, like masks.

 

55 minutes ago, LJS said:

Not sure we have a border with Wales. that might be something to do with it. 

No flights either? And no other travel?

Lol

 

55 minutes ago, LJS said:

Sturgeon has only brought up the English border in response to media questions. no one has asked her about the border with Wales.

See above.

 

55 minutes ago, LJS said:

 

It was busy for one day - then the police took measures to stop a repeat

And Bournemouth was busy for a day, the same day there were park parties all over Scotland.

55 minutes ago, LJS said:

- perhaps another example of caution up here.  

Lol

 

55 minutes ago, LJS said:

do find it amusing that having been closed for months, opening pubs at 6 a.m. is being presented as responsible. 

It's to stop pubs opening at midnight - not to encourage pubs to open at 6am - and about fitting the go-time most-appropriately to how the licencing regime works.

It actually ends up as about the most sensible measure around pub reopening, the total opposite of what you were thinking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, LJS said:

I guess they are probably a bit busier than when they were shut though?

just as people are less busy without a job. And on UC without a job.

But never mind, England will pay for Scots to stay at home, right, and for greater dole forever more because you fucked your jobs by that bit more....?

It's not a one-way street with all this, where we can pick the perfect outcome. The longer stuff stays shut, the fewer jobs that will come back.

My favourite pub has decided to stay shut for the moment because it doesn't feel like it can give anything like a normal pub experience with current rules ... but from next month it's going to have the extra expense of some of the cost of furlough, and then staying shut means bankruptcy sooner or later.

My kid is back to work today at a (northern city) restaurant. He reckons all of the staff are job-safe until at least October but he's not done the sums right (amusing seeing as he has a maths degree) - because that only works if they trade normally on the 4 (instead of 7) days they'll open each week,.but they can't trade normally because they've had to remove some tables. Even if they put the tables back they're unlikely to fill them for many many months - because people aren't doing the city centre like they used to, and maybe never will again.

(He also reckons he's going to find a great 'lifetime' job/career in the next few months; he might get lucky, but he's got no grasp of how major unemployment affects things).

I'm sat here knowing I'm safe until October but probably (business) insolvent before the end of the year.

I'm not keen for things to open up too quickly and I'm even less keen on pub rules that ruin pubs and Spaffer is going to fuck it all up anyway, but boasting about a better outcome AND more-cautious is at least as moronic as anything Spaffer is doing or going to do.

 

Edited by Neil
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, LJS said:

I do find it amusing that having been closed for months, opening pubs at 6 a.m. is being presented as responsible. 

just a PS on this ... Whenever Scotland decides to reopen pubs, it'll have to pick a time they're allowed to reopen from.

Whatever time of the day or night Sturgeon picks, a number of Scottish pubs will open at that time (over-keen or greedy, take your pick).

It's an inevitable consequence of the process of re-opening, that no chosen opening time can negate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Neil said:

just a PS on this ... Whenever Scotland decides to reopen pubs, it'll have to pick a time they're allowed to reopen from.

Whatever time of the day or night Sturgeon picks, a number of Scottish pubs will open at that time (over-keen or greedy, take your pick).

It's an inevitable consequence of the process of re-opening, that no chosen opening time can negate.

Pubs can only open as per their license. Most won't have licenses to open at 6am. As much as I hate the Govt, nothing wrong with that 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...