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Barry Fish
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34 minutes ago, Neil said:

don't think anyone's got it right, there's not really any way to stop it. Once the summer is over and we start living indoors again I reckon things will get bad again unless a vaccine gets sorted first. :( 

The point I'm making with lockdown is that there's only the goodwill for one of them, particularly without furlough (Sunak has said there won't be any more). I reckon the most they might get away with is shutting pubs.

 

17 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I don't think anyone other than businesses will worry about the legalities of obeying lockdown any more. Lots of people will isolate somewhat, but I can't see anyone caring particularly about whether something is "allowed". 

If you guys are right, we are well and truly fucked if the virus rises again.

(Not saying you are not right by the way)

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53 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I don't think anyone other than businesses will worry about the legalities of obeying lockdown any more. Lots of people will isolate somewhat, but I can't see anyone caring particularly about whether something is "allowed". 

the behaviourial scientists are right: people do have a limit

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37 minutes ago, zahidf said:

the behaviourial scientists are right: people do have a limit

I think people have complied with lockdown more than a lot of behavioural scientists thought they would.

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13 minutes ago, Neil said:

yup, but Cummings broke it - and once it's broken its over.

I fear you may be right.

 

(Not something I say often😀)

My first time on the train with a mask on today. Quite unpleasant. Increased my respect for those who have to wear them for more than the odd 25 minutes here & there. Incidentally, Neil, train was still pretty dead...maybe something to do with our more cautious approach up here. :)

 

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21 minutes ago, LJS said:

Incidentally, Neil, train was still pretty dead...maybe something to do with our more cautious approach up here. :)

I attempted to visit my mum yesterday (tho broke down).

The M4 - the UK's 2nd busiest motorway, I think - in rush hour was quieter than it was on xmas day in 1986 ... in other words the quietest I've ever seen it.

I don't where you've got this idea that things are back to normal in England. Oh, actually, I do; your exceptional Scotland prejudices. ;) 

Edited by Neil
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1 hour ago, LJS said:

I fear you may be right.

 

(Not something I say often😀)

My first time on the train with a mask on today. Quite unpleasant. Increased my respect for those who have to wear them for more than the odd 25 minutes here & there. Incidentally, Neil, train was still pretty dead...maybe something to do with our more cautious approach up here. :)

 

Interestingly speaking to NHS staff, the new rule requiring staff to wear a mask even when in an office, 2M from anyone else has had a significant impact on morale.

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The interesting thing about Cummings is even though the tories have fallen in the polls they've kept a 12 point lead with the working class. This suggests to me that we've just carried on the brexit argument but moved it onto the battle field of covid with each side either seeing Cummings breaking knockdown as unforgivable or being blown out of proportion by the mainstream media to damage brexit.

Its not very encouraging for labour though, reading their report last week it suggested if they never get Scotland back they need the majority of the red wall and then to target seats like Jacob Rees Mogg in Somerset. You wonder if covid hasn't damaged the tories in these seats then what will?

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3 minutes ago, lost said:

The interesting thing about Cummings is even though the tories have fallen in the polls they've kept a 12 point lead with the working class. This suggests to me that we've just carried on the brexit argument but moved it onto the battle field of covid with each side either seeing Cummings breaking knockdown as unforgivable or being blown out of proportion by the mainstream media to damage brexit.

Its not very encouraging for labour though, reading their report last week it suggested if they never get Scotland back they need the majority of the red wall and then to target seats like Jacob Rees Mogg in Somerset. You wonder if covid hasn't damaged the tories in these seats then what will?

Have we carried it onto COVID or onto BLM?

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14 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Have we carried it onto COVID or onto BLM?

Possibly both but Starmer has been pretty vocal on supporting the police and laws against vandalism so as far as I can see has positioned himself enough in the centre of the debate where hopefully people won't draw the same battle lines. I know he's come out and supported no extension but I think that the belief around brexit that its the tories vs the other parties may take longer to disappear.

I guess that the BLM position may backfire on the other side as if Layla Moran wins the leadership election for the lib dem's, there is talk of them taking the 'Corbyns labour' position on the political spectrum and so they may pick up votes from the left of the party.

Edited by lost
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2 minutes ago, lost said:

Possibly both but Starmer has been pretty vocal on supporting the police and laws against vandalism so as far as I can see has positioned himself enough in the centre of the debate where hopefully people won't draw the same battle lines.

I guess that may backfire on the other side as if Layla Moran wins the leadership election for the lib dem's, there is talk of them taking the 'Corbyns labour' position on the political spectrum and so they may pick up votes from the left of the party.

Yes, but I think genuine racists feel enabled and invigorated by Johnson in the same way as neo-nazis feel about Trump. Left and right disappear when real hatred comes into play.

 

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17 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Yes, but I think genuine racists feel enabled and invigorated by Johnson in the same way as neo-nazis feel about Trump. Left and right disappear when real hatred comes into play.

 

Well thats another thing about the next election which makes me worry.

If Farage's Brexit party vanity project still isn't running and people carry on voting along those lines seats like Trickett's Hemsworth, Coopers Pontefract and Castleford and Millibands Doncaster North will probably also fall to the Tories

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If Cummings destroyed faith in lockdown, then I’d expect to see significantly greater compliance in Scotland than in the U.K. I know we’re not comparing apples with apples but even so, I’m not sure that’s the case. I’d suggest that Cummings was an excuse for people who wanted to break it anyway.

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2 hours ago, Neil said:

Good to see Scots following the better advice from their government. 

Or, if you check Ian Rankin's Twitter, perhaps not. 

Gosh, some people floouting the rules and in Scotland which I am, of course, always claiming to be exceptionally perfect. 

On a serious note some rules are being flouted by some people in various parts of the UK. There is no way of knowing whether any one part of the country is any worse than any other.

My guess is that of the virus is to start spreading agsin, it's more likely to come from indoor interactions rather than idiots in the park.

1 hour ago, JoshD said:

If Cummings destroyed faith in lockdown, then I’d expect to see significantly greater compliance in Scotland than in the U.K. I know we’re not comparing apples with apples but even so, I’m not sure that’s the case. I’d suggest that Cummings was an excuse for people who wanted to break it anyway.

I think there is a combination of factors of which Cummings is no doubt one but probably not the largest one although he had contributed to a low level of trust in government which o would suggest is s factor along with lockdown fatigue and a sense that our hibernation is over.

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9 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

Good on him - I’m almost beginning to like him. 

What's not to like?

The Independent forced to correct their article. I hope someone gets disciplined there too.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/maxine-peake-interview-labour-corbyn-keir-starmer-black-lives-matter-a9583206.html

Edited by feral chile
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52 minutes ago, feral chile said:

What's not to like?

I’m surprised it appears you approve of Starmer given how vociferous your support for Corbyn has been on here in the past and the fact Starmer’s ideals are wildly at odds with Corbyn’s? 

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1 hour ago, feral chile said:

What's not to like?

The Independent forced to correct their article. I hope someone gets disciplined there too.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/maxine-peake-interview-labour-corbyn-keir-starmer-black-lives-matter-a9583206.html

https://israelpalestinenews.org/minn-cops-trained-by-israeli-police-who-often-use-knee-on-neck-restraint/

Obviously forced to correct, but is there any truth to it?  Also, the article was fairly wide ranging, seems like a whim he was happy enough to enact to me.

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39 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

I’m surprised it appears you approve of Starmer given how vociferous your support for Corbyn has been on here in the past and the fact Starmer’s ideals are wildly at odds with Corbyn’s? 

It was how Labour treated Corbyn. I don't like stupidity. RLB has been stupid.

Labour was self harming with their toxic Corbyn sabotage. Starmer is enhancing Labour reputation.

That article used the same technique linking Israel to BLM as many articles did linking Corbyn to AS.

It was never about Corbyn fandom, I did keep saying that. 

Getting rid of RLB probably won't harm Labour, unless it starts another war. Then I'll be calling out anyone sabotaging Labour.

Edited by feral chile
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