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11 minutes ago, lost said:

Document updated 1st May 2020 already down to 350ish deaths a day by then.. I think its clear the government realised what they had done when they appeared on tv begging people with other issues to go to the hospital.

We knew hospitals weren't equipped properly  so I'm not surprised people were afraid to go there.

They were putting out public information in April. I agree there was a risk of assuming Covid-19 when it was really something else.

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3 minutes ago, feral chile said:

We knew hospitals weren't equipped properly 

Then as I said how has the government managed to achieve the NHS not being overloaded during apparently the worst pandemic in 100 years when it didn't have enough beds in December?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-50713236

As i said its pretty clear its done that by reducing services to free up those beds. Freeing up those beds by sending covid infected old people back into nursing homes, thats a cockup which is 100x times more linked to the death rate than any sort of early/late/no lockdown.  

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20 minutes ago, lost said:

Document updated 1st May 2020 already down to 350ish deaths a day by then.. I think its clear the government realised what they had done when they appeared on tv begging people with other issues to go to the hospital.

I think its possible we might have got through this with similar or perhaps even less deaths without a full lockdown. But that would only have been possible if the government had acted mush sooner and taken a very different approach . It would have needed the banning of large gatherings much sooner that we did, a level of contact tracing which we may not have been able to implement and a population willing to voluntarily practice a level of social distancing. Japan had all these things as well as a culture where mask wearing is common.

the simple fact is we didn't do these things and faced with the situation as it was in March when lockdown was finally imposed, i don't think the government had any alternative strategy available to them.

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1 hour ago, LJS said:

I think its possible we might have got through this with similar or perhaps even less deaths without a full lockdown. But that would only have been possible if the government had acted mush sooner and taken a very different approach . It would have needed the banning of large gatherings much sooner that we did, a level of contact tracing which we may not have been able to implement and a population willing to voluntarily practice a level of social distancing. Japan had all these things as well as a culture where mask wearing is common.

the simple fact is we didn't do these things and faced with the situation as it was in March when lockdown was finally imposed, i don't think the government had any alternative strategy available to them.

On top of that I would argue we would have needed to restrict overseas travel far earlier and been far stricter on quarantine for those coming in.

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14 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

On top of that I would argue we would have needed to restrict overseas travel far earlier and been far stricter on quarantine for those coming in.

I agree.

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So what dead cat are we expecting?

And does anyone know when this press conference by someone who explicitly shouldn't be giving press conferences is going to be?

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33 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

So what dead cat are we expecting?

And does anyone know when this press conference by someone who explicitly shouldn't be giving press conferences is going to be?

word is 4pm directly followed by the daily briefing

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50 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

So what dead cat are we expecting?

Did he run over a cat on his way to Durham?

Seriously its hard to know what he can say - i don't think distracting us is gong to work.

Its hard to see any explanation that will get round the obvious fact that he broke the rules.

His only hope is to apologise and beg for our forgiveness but I suspect its too late for that and its crystal clear that he isn't in the slightest bit sorry.

Anyway, he is supposed to be extraordinarily clever and the supreme strategist so no doubt he has a cunning plan...

image.png.448b3aa391b6b25c25dfea8b5a3a0911.pngimage.png.f2c68e819d38e75e321abc6ea823ef9f.png

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7 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

What a shit set of excuses.

He doesn't appear to have added anything of significance to what we already knew. 

Total waste of everyone's time.

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He had a couple of days to come up with an excuse for driving to Barnard Castle. Testing his eyesight is the best he can come up with?

Perhaps not as cunning as we thought.

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6 hours ago, lost said:

Then as I said how has the government managed to achieve the NHS not being overloaded during apparently the worst pandemic in 100 years when it didn't have enough beds in December?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-50713236

As i said its pretty clear its done that by reducing services to free up those beds. Freeing up those beds by sending covid infected old people back into nursing homes, thats a cockup which is 100x times more linked to the death rate than any sort of early/late/no lockdown.  

Yes. Freeing up those beds turned out to be disastrous.

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7 hours ago, lost said:

Then as I said how has the government managed to achieve the NHS not being overloaded during apparently the worst pandemic in 100 years when it didn't have enough beds in December?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-50713236

As i said its pretty clear its done that by reducing services to free up those beds. Freeing up those beds by sending covid infected old people back into nursing homes, thats a cockup which is 100x times more linked to the death rate than any sort of early/late/no lockdown.  

I'm not sure leaving old people in hospitals that are about to be flooded with hundreds of folk infected with Coronavirus would necessarily have been better especially if we don't have enough beds for them. 

I'd be interested to know what you think we should have done differently.

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17 minutes ago, LJS said:

I'm not sure leaving old people in hospitals that are about to be flooded with hundreds of folk infected with Coronavirus would necessarily have been better especially if we don't have enough beds for them. 

I'd be interested to know what you think we should have done differently.

I believe Germany repurposed hotels as 14 day quarantine centres in the middle for movement of people between hospitals and care homes. Seems to have worked quite well.

Edited by lost

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26 minutes ago, LJS said:

I'm not sure leaving old people in hospitals that are about to be flooded with hundreds of folk infected with Coronavirus would necessarily have been better especially if we don't have enough beds for them. 

I'd be interested to know what you think we should have done differently.

Got them tested before sending them back. It really was a total mess.

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11 minutes ago, lost said:

I believe Germany repurposed hotels as 14 day quarantine centres in the middle for movement of people between hospitals and care homes. Seems to have worked quite well.

 

1 minute ago, feral chile said:

Got them tested before sending them back. It really was a total mess.

We didn't have the capacity to test them which i presume Germany did have.They probably also had PPE for those looking after them.

  I'm not for a moment suggesting it was ideal to fling all these old folk into care homes. I'm saying at the time the decision was made, there was little alternative. The glaring errors are much earlier in the process.

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15 minutes ago, LJS said:

 

We didn't have the capacity to test them which i presume Germany did have.They probably also had PPE for those looking after them.

  I'm not for a moment suggesting it was ideal to fling all these old folk into care homes. I'm saying at the time the decision was made, there was little alternative. The glaring errors are much earlier in the process.

Sorry, that's what I meant. That C4 documentary about South Korea is good, they were pretty impressive. 

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-country-that-beat-the-virus

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21 hours ago, lost said:

an argument to be made that the NHS centralised system may work better during non-pandemic times too or at least provide better value for the populous

as a counter argument I give you: the USA. :P 

A centralised system is only as good as its leadership.

When the leadership dismantles (as it has) all of the measures that centralised system has regularly identified as necessary for just this sort of situation you cannot point the finger at that centralised system.

The NHS has made plenty of major mistakes itself along the way, too - but even some of them [eg: the focus on ventilators] has a major driver in the lack of hospital investment [far fewer beds with oxygen points] compared to Germany.

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21 hours ago, lost said:

People with cancer and heart disease again we stopped treating those. That's where the majority of your deaths are coming from its got very little to do with if the government locked down healthy people or not.

utter bollocks.

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20 hours ago, lost said:

As i said its pretty clear its done that by reducing services to free up those beds. Freeing up those beds by sending covid infected old people back into nursing homes, thats a cockup which is 100x times more linked to the death rate than any sort of early/late/no lockdown.  

funnily enough, that's also your favourite country, Sweden - the country that now has the 2nd highest proportional covid death rate in the world.

(Guess who's first? ;)

The UK fucked up exceedingly badly, but that doesn't mean the lockdown was a waste of time - as proven by all of the better countries having locked down.

It means the govt failed to introduce the lockdown early enough.

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5 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Douglas Ross.

A Scottish Tory with integrity.

He is also a top flight football referee. He has shown Boris a yellow card.

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1 hour ago, Neil said:

funnily enough, that's also your favourite country, Sweden - the country that now has the 2nd highest proportional covid death rate in the world.

(Guess who's first? ;)

Yes Sweden have admitted they have fucked on care homes too I don't think anyone is denying that.

The death rate again we won't know the real figures until we have the same data from everywhere. Colorado has just switched from recording deaths "with" covid to "from" covid. There was a suggestion a guy was poisoned by a company and the family couldn't sue because his death was recorded as he died with covid.

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Not looking great for Johnson & Cummings.

 

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