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8 hours ago, charlierc said:

That actually surprised me that they did got more than both 2005 and 2015 ballots in all fairness. But equally, 2005 had way less voters and 2015's was better distributed for Labour while up against a smaller Tory vote than last night's ballot.

Of course how other parties do has a significant impact on labour votes, so comparing vote total from different elections is stupid.

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9 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Why is there a campaign to make Richard Burgon the next Labour leader?

Because he hates Tony Blair more than any candidate?

Apparently this period of reflection is to try and stop Starmer and Thornberry winning. Are these people in control trying to destroy the party?

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12 hours ago, 5co77ie said:

I suspect many of them don't have permanent contracted jobs

nothing to suspect, many don't have jobs at all. They're retired like a substantial chunk of leavers are in all parts of the country.. ;) 

Edited by eFestivals

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9 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

I hate this "more votes" rhetoric, it completely ignores population rises.

it ignores everything of the context of each election, too. The vote numbers by themselves are a pointless stat.

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3 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Of course how other parties do has a significant impact on labour votes, so comparing vote total from different elections is stupid.

Exactly. Its a bit of a fools errand to say that, and I think Labour was particularly guilty of that, given how many people were seeming to think it was destined to be 2017 2.0, when two extra years just caused more problems.

IMO this was a beatable Tory campaign but Labour didn't do enough to convince people it was a valid alternate. There's probably no one factor - some people on both sides of the Brexit debate thinking they weren't for them (especially from Leavers but Tory Remainers and LD voters didn't want in either), some thinking their manifesto went too far, and some thinking Corbyn was a liability, with the last one seeming to be the single biggest factor.

57 minutes ago, mcshed said:

I remember grumping on here when the the yellow team broke rank to give Boris his election, that went well for Nicola, less so for Jo.

You have to say it was right for the SNP and the Lib Dems dropped the ball big time, perhaps signified by all their Tory and Labour defectors losing out in this ballot. But yes. They gambled and it went wrong.

I'm really not sure what is the best approach can be going forward for the anti-Brexit crowd, because obviously its now the single biggest long shot it doesn't happen. Maybe its best to do some baby steps.

Edited by charlierc

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I suspect Richard is being a tad optimistic...

"SCOTTISH Labour leader Richard Leonard has defended his leadership of the party following Thursday’s disastrous election result.

In a statement last night he insisted Labour could still form the next government in Holyrood. The party were left with just one MP in Scotland, taking 18.5% of the vote share."

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18101397.labours-richard-leonard-can-still-first-minister/

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On 12/6/2019 at 8:30 PM, pink_triangle said:

As I have said before I think if labour lose it will be blamed on Blair, Watson, Lib Dems, Blairite backbenchers, mainstream media, BBC and Jez will remain blameless.

I was wrong on this one, I haven’t seen Tom Watson blamed!

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1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

I was wrong on this one, I haven’t seen Tom Watson blamed!

He's clearly clairvoyant.

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McDonnell endorsement of Wrong Bailey, Burgon or Rayner as the next labour leader suggests the Corbyn movement has not learned a thing. It looks like the reports this period of reflection was a ploy to stop Thornberry or Starmer may be correct.

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We have the Socialist Party in our town centre, under a Save the NHS petition" banner, saying we should follow France's example.

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A few thoughts that I have in terms of what needs to happen for labour to come back.

1. A leader that unites the party.  Jess Phillips is no more the answer than Long Bailey.

2. Move on from the Blair hatred. He has not lead the party for 10 years. Momentum were advising campaigners when someone brought up hatred for Jez to bat back with Blair.  Most people spend very little time thinking about Blair, things have moved on.

3. A realisation that the London, big cities, middle class graduate coaltion that labour have built is not close to enough to win a majority.  Labour at the top (both in shadow cabinet and people in power) are stacked with people from London who I dont think understand working class towns and possibly look down on them. Momentum also at times seems London obsessed and influences policy in that direction. Thought needs to be made on what policy platform can win the working class towns. We need to remember that because someone voted Brexit or wants less immigration, they are not a Tommy Robinson supporter

4. Unions standing up against Momentum. To me this is the best chance of labour moving in the right direction. Momentum in this election were sending labour supporters away from their own marginal seats.  They also seemed more bothered about talking long shot twitter scalps like Boris and IDS than retaining their own seats.

I would hope the trade union movement has a better idea of life thoughout Britan than the echo chamber that the likes of Lansmann occupies.

5. An admission of the mistakes of Corbynisn.  As I predicted would happen Corbyn supporters have taken zero responsibility and blamed everything else for the defeat. As i said earlier this did not happen with Ed Milliband or supporters.  Not taking responsibility will lead to repeating the same mistakes.

6. A much better media strategy.  Picking people to put on the TV because they are the most loyal is not the way to win an election. The best media performers in the party should be the one on media and in the shadow cabinet.

7. A more simple policy platform that people can  list 4 or 5 things and believe they can be implements.

 

Im sure there are many more things, but the first things that came to my mind.

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1 hour ago, feral chile said:

To me it's the article of someone who had made their mind up before they went knocking on doors and have fitted the experience into their own beliefs, rather than letting the experience shape their beliefs. It is effectively another Corbyn supporter blaming everything but Corbyn. This is a person who will nor learn from labour mistakes and support them making the same mistakes again

A part came that came across as complete bullshit to me was

"Perhaps more upsetting was the fact that many people were obviously distressed at the barrage of information they had to sift through from unverified, unregulated sources and their sheer confusion at what was going on"

My strong hunch is not a single person said this without being led in that direction and this was just the writers preconceived view.

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What about this bit?

Labour need to be aware that this will be the same no matter who the Labour leader is. If they are offering transformative socialist policies, they will be attacked. If they are not attacked, it is because they are not socialists and represent no threat to capitalist hegemony in the UK.

And I don't get how that lady could have 3 zero hour contract jobs and consider herself self employed.

I warched Lucy Powell this morning, she was good. She said that there are multiple issues that need to be considered. She also stated that Labour members are predominantly middle class, educated urbanites, out of touch with Labour heartlands.

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I'm quite concerned by this "Blue Labour" movement cropping up. Not only is it wrong in itself, but it plays into negative stereotypes of the working class as racist.

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15 hours ago, feral chile said:

We have the Socialist Party in our town centre, under a Save the NHS petition" banner, saying we should follow France's example.

The Scottish Socialist Party are always out in our city centre with a petition for a £10 minimum wage, that was Labour policy you oafs just vote Labour.

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Corbyn in the guardian today: " We won the argument" :huh:

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22 hours ago, mcshed said:

I remember grumping on here when the the yellow team broke rank to give Boris his election, that went well for Nicola, less so for Jo.

Hang on ... Corbyn had spent the previous two years saying how much he wanted an election, and an election in front of anything else. ;) 

And Corbyn refused to countenance the moves that could have avoided that election to instead have a GNU to deal with brexit - by putting himself first, the party second, and the country third.

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20 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Lisa Nandy getting hectored by angry remainer dudes after the Leftfield debate only to be rescued by some of her constituents wearing Wigan tops wanting selfies was a lovely sight. 

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1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Hang on ... Corbyn had spent the previous two years saying how much he wanted an election, and an election in front of anything else. ;)

Corbyn wanted an election until Boris threw away his majority so it was possible to control him within Parliament without one.

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