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28 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

me, I can't really believe how many people there are like you, who mix amongst the British public but somehow that British public make no impression on them.

I mean, c'mon ... this is (just about) the same electorate that voted for Thatcher 3 times and dropped a huge turd on the much-better-than-Corbyn Michael Foot.

Youngsters perhaps have an excuse for missing this. People of our age? Nah.

I can never believe that people can be so blind to their own interests.

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Good to see Yvette Cooper hang on. There is only her and Starmer I can see in the top 10 of having a decent chance of winning next time.

Outside that? Benn or Jarvis I'd say... maybe Creasey

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13 minutes ago, feral chile said:

I can never believe that people can be so blind to their own interests.

but that's exactly what you're being by failing to recognise how other people see their own interests. ;) 

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10 minutes ago, feral chile said:

So, any ideas of how Labour can reconnect with the electorate when Corbyn goes?

cut its connection with momentum, because ultimately that's all the same things as Corbyn.

That's not me saying they need to be expelled, that's me saying the Labour members need to wise up.

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1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

but that's exactly what you're being by failing to recognise how other people see their own interests. ;) 

Shopworkers from Wales voting Tory. 

Because...

Fuck knows.

I can't discuss it with them calmly.

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38 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I'm not sure, the likes of Momentum, McCluskey and Owen Jones will go full on about how this loss is about Brexit and not Corbyn. I only hope enough members don't fall for it.

I was watching the Novara media stream last night for shits and giggles and they were talking about the labour party being a 30 year project so i guess they think they can offer someone electable by about 2045!!

This is the time for the moderates to grow a pair, take the party back and not be bullied or silenced by the twitter mob.

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1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

cut its connection with momentum, because ultimately that's all the same things as Corbyn.

That's not me saying they need to be expelled, that's me saying the Labour members need to wise up.

Well my husband, who I think of as a barometer for Joe Bloggs, thinks both leaders are extremists but at least one isn't a commie terrorist sympathiser who despises Britain.

And he lives with me, so it's not like he hasn't heard the other side.

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16 minutes ago, feral chile said:

I can never believe that people can be so blind to their own interests.

Taking that how I'm sure you meant it, Labour's failure is encapsulated in that idea - that it's Labour who define what people's interests are, and not those people for themselves.

And while Labour promised a huge long list of freebies, the electorate is not so dumb as to think they're really freebies. someone is paying, and if they can't believe who Labour are say are paying the answer is that they're paying - and they don't want to.

Sure, they'll pay for 'decent' public services - which is why no one has been complaining about Johnson's plan to spend more - but they'll only pay for what they believe will be well-managed, and spend huge amounts on everything is not that.

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1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

Me, I'll keep calling out lies.

9.59pm: vote SNP to stop brexit, it's not about indy
10.01pm: this is a mandate for indy

;) 

The SNP are bullshitters. 

I'm saying i won't oppose the voters wanting to take the gamble at something different. 

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5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

cut its connection with momentum, because ultimately that's all the same things as Corbyn.

That's not me saying they need to be expelled, that's me saying the Labour members need to wise up.

I think they probably need to be expelled. Kinnock kicking out Militant is what paved the way for Blair. 

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3 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Shopworkers from Wales voting Tory. 

Because...

Fuck knows.

It's not fuck knows, it's *they* know. They know what their own interests are. 

And it's not for Labour to tell them what their interests are, but for Labour to offer policies which match their interests.

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14 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I think they probably need to be expelled. Kinnock kicking out Militant is what paved the way for Blair. 

If they can be marginalised by the members that's a much better thing than expelling them.

Unfortunately I reckon this is where huge numbers of members exit - not because "they've been nasty to Jeremy" but simply because they've become disillusioned after 2 failures and two rejections. Remember, many of these voted libdem in 2010, they're not Labour tribalists.

( I'm sure the Corbynistas will claim they exit because it's no longer Jez in charge :rolleyes: )

So I'm not particularly hopeful of momentum being marginalised, as they're the ones most likely to stay active in the party.

Edited by eFestivals

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12 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Well my husband, who I think of as a barometer for Joe Bloggs, thinks both leaders are extremists but at least one isn't a commie terrorist sympathiser who despises Britain.

And he lives with me, so it's not like he hasn't heard the other side.

that's Corbyn's baggage, right there. Front and centre.

But while those things are personally attached to Corbyn from his history, picking a Corbyn-image (relative) youngster as his replacement won't leave them behind. People like your husband will hold suspicions of the same thing even if they don't get voiced anywhere near as much.

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Although it was writ large that the result that we have was inevitable it still is a disappointment.

Not much to add as @pink_triangle    comments are on the money. @eFestivals also adds that 3rd point of policy.

I hope they move to the centre but don't lurch too far.

going to be a strange 10 years around the world

Edited by fred quimby

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26 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

If they can be marginalised by the members that's a much better thing than expelling them.

Unfortunately I reckon this is where huge numbers of members exit - not because "they've been nasty to Jeremy" but simply because they've become disillusioned after 2 failures and two rejections. Remember, many of these voted libdem in 2010, they're not Labour tribalists.

( I'm sure the Corbynistas will claim they exit because it's no longer Jez in charge :rolleyes: )

So I'm not particularly hopeful of momentum being marginalised, as they're the ones most likely to stay active in the party.

For labour to succeed they need someone who can unite both the momentum types and working class voters. Accepting you will lose some on the fringes.

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Sturgeons reaction to our best hope of the whole of the UK staying in the EU going up in smoke:

 

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1 minute ago, lost said:

Sturgeons reaction to our best hope of the whole of the UK staying in the EU going up in smoke:

with a bit of luck that's going to come back on her hard.

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Should of not gone to work... People acting like they have won the lottery!  I work in Leicester!!! 

 

Doesn't help I had to pick the missus up from her Xmas party at 2... Have got earphones in trying not to snap 

 

 

 

 

 

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Words from the great mind of Ian Lavery, completely clueless!

He insists that Jeremy Corbyn is "like any other leader in any other election" who "gets brought up on the doorstep", saying he is no different to Ed Miliband, Tony Blair or Gordon Brown.

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2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I hope you can.

Another 5 years of Labour telling the electorate they're idiots isn't going to make things better. 

Yeah telling people they're stupid because they disagree with you is not a good thing.

When can we look forward to you stopping? 

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16 minutes ago, LJS said:

Yeah telling people they're stupid because they disagree with you is not a good thing.

When can we look forward to you stopping? 

I'm not trying to get myself a fan club that's put their lives in my hands. :) 

But anyway, sometimes stupid has to be called out for what it is.  Part of where Labour went wrong is because after rejecting the leaver's vote they wouldn't call out leaving as the stupid thing it is.

Edited by eFestivals

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30 minutes ago, lost said:

Sturgeons reaction to our best hope of the whole of the UK staying in the EU going up in smoke:

 

 

28 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

with a bit of luck that's going to come back on her hard.

Party leader celebrates her party winning a seat: shocking I know.

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6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I'm not trying to get myself a fan club that's put their lives in my hands. :) 

But anyway, sometimes stupid has to be called out for what it is.  Part of where Labour went wrong is because after rejecting the leaver's vote they wouldn't call out leaving as the stupid thing it is.

So Labour can't call the electorate stupid but you can call folk on here stupid.

It seems only a day or two ago you were holding zahidf to the same standards as politicians and journalists.

I guess you must be different.

Neil, the special one.

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1 minute ago, LJS said:

 

Party leader celebrates her party winning a seat: shocking I know.

do you think she celebrated each of the extra 15 seats in  the same way? Or might that one have got special treatment?

And if it got special treatment, do you think Sturgeon might have just given away that getting the best thing for Scotland within the UK is not something she's been working for after all?

You're such a mug you'll be telling me next she's serious with her request to Boris next week. :rolleyes: 

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