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1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

A fucking racist antisemitic totalitarian fascist that thinks kids lying on the floor should be responded to with theft has just succeeded in winning a vote.

Anyone celebrating this is a c**t. Corbyn being shit in a ridiculous number of ways is not an excuse for endorsing Johnson. 

You fucking c**t.

 

47 minutes ago, LJS said:

Enjoy your triumph.

You fucking heartless, brainless, clueless arsehole.

Out of upvotes, but fully supporting these posts

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All the criticism of Labour under Corbyn being a project for the entitled middle class looks like it's holding true.

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5 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

All the criticism of Labour under Corbyn being a project for the entitled middle class looks like it's holding true.

Although those who have worried that it is a very london centric movement have been vindicated. Top 5 jobs all London MPs, maybe they needed people in top jobs who understand the rest of the country is a bit different.

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8 hours ago, LJS said:

I don't think this is primarily about being too left wing. It's about Brexit/Corbyn.

It's about Brexit, Corbyn *AND* being too left wing.

If you piss off the leavers and need to attract tory remainers and libdems, you can't do that by being too left wing.

Fact is this country is socially conservative (Scotland too, before you claim different), and winning elections from the left can only be done by keeping that in mind.

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Anyway, it's been a fun few years. I'll post in other topics on here but I'm avoiding politics for the foreseeable for self care and my own mental health.

It's an utter disaster obviously, but I guess all we can do is try and be good to people on a micro level. Fuck all we can do on a larger level for now.

 

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So seemingly after one of labour's worst ever performances in an election Jez wants to stay on for a period of reflection which I assume means time to sell long Bailey to the members.

Labour lost for 2 reasons Brexit and having one of the least popular leaders in history. The former is now out of their hands, but the latter is. Instead of a period of reflection Corbyn should resign today and show the electorate labour are listening.

Momentum will continue to ignore the obvious that Jez was toxic on the doorstep. Labour members hold some responsibility in keeping Jez in power as long as they did, they now owe it to the country not to make labour a party of protest.

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8 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Assuming this is roughly right, I will no longer criticise Scottish independence campaigns. I think it's a huge risk economically for Scotland, but... such a gamble feels worth it. 

Me, I'll keep calling out lies.

9.59pm: vote SNP to stop brexit, it's not about indy
10.01pm: this is a mandate for indy

;) 

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7 hours ago, feral chile said:

Well Labour needs to stop with the token lefty nominations then and get real.

alternatively, the membership need to stop being stupid enough to vote for the token lefty.

Even so, a different token lefty would have done better, and also increased the libdem vote. There was little incentive for not-Labour voters to vote LibDem if it put the disliked Corbyn in no.10.

 

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5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Anyway, it's been a fun few years. I'll post in other topics on here but I'm avoiding politics for the foreseeable for self care and my own mental health.

It's an utter disaster obviously, but I guess all we can do is try and be good to people on a micro level. Fuck all we can do on a larger level for now.

 

I hope you can.

Another 5 years of Labour telling the electorate they're idiots isn't going to make things better. Another 5 years of screaming at 'the enemy' or about 'the enemy' isn't going to make the people who voted tory swap sides.

There is only one electorate, and Labour needs to think seriously about what it takes to win them over - and that's about restraint as much as it's about ambition.

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8 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Anyway, it's been a fun few years. I'll post in other topics on here but I'm avoiding politics for the foreseeable for self care and my own mental health.

It's an utter disaster obviously, but I guess all we can do is try and be good to people on a micro level. Fuck all we can do on a larger level for now.

 

To me the result has shown more than ever that labour need to fight. My daughter is 9 and will now be 14 before there is even a slim chance of a labour PM. The battle starts today to ensure labour are prepared for that.

I want to be part of the battle, but I need to see lessons have been learned. If labour just wants to be a protest party aimed at London and the middle class then it isn't worth my effort.

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11 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Labour lost for 2 reasons Brexit and having one of the least popular leaders in history.

Nope, three reasons. Those two, and their incredible - uncredible - ambition.

The manifesto may or may not have been the promise of utopia, but it promised far too much without making any of it a priority over other things.

Labour needed ten carefully crafted policies, not one hundred (and growing) promises of heaven. Something that looked achievable.

Brexit lost Labour votes, but Labour could still have been against brexit and possibly won. 

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30 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It's about Brexit, Corbyn *AND* being too left wing.

If you piss off the leavers and need to attract tory remainers and libdems, you can't do that by being too left wing.

Fact is this country is socially conservative (Scotland too, before you claim different), and winning elections from the left can only be done by keeping that in mind.

I think (finally) you might be right.

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/13/devastating-exit-poll-triggers-bitter-blame-game-within-labour

I don't honestly think antisemitism had much to do with it in working class areas who want to leave because immigrants steal jobs and think Corbyn is an unpatriotic terrorist sympathiser.

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9 minutes ago, feral chile said:

I think (finally) you might be right.

its a damned shame that you and others have finally realised. 

Because it would have been so much better if this stuff had been realised before Corbyn became leader, before he was reconfirmed as leader, or before he had a 2nd shot at an election.

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Just now, pink_triangle said:

I fear this may be a good result for Long Bailey. I can see momentum framing a contest against Starmer as labour needing a female leader with a northern accent.

I like Starmer.

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1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

I fear this may be a good result for Long Bailey. I can see momentum framing a contest against Starmer as labour needing a female leader with a northern accent.

if Labour are shallow enough to think a northern accent takes them forward, they're destined to fail next time too.

Because those not-Labour voters might sometimes be thick, but they're still too smart to be taken in by such a transparent ploy.

If there's a northern accent with capabilities, that's a different thing - but i've not seen one that I can remember.

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Just now, eFestivals said:

its a damned shame that you and others have finally realised. 

Because it would have been so much better if this stuff had been realised before Corbyn became leader, before he was reconfirmed as leader, or before he had a 2nd shot at an election.

:(:( 

Well my opinion has always been irrelevant, as I'm not a member.

I hadn't realised quite how irrelevant, however.

:(

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1 minute ago, feral chile said:

I hadn't realised quite how irrelevant

me, I can't really believe how many people there are like you, who mix amongst the British public but somehow that British public make no impression on them.

I mean, c'mon ... this is (just about) the same electorate that voted for Thatcher 3 times and dropped a huge turd on the much-better-than-Corbyn Michael Foot.

Youngsters perhaps have an excuse for missing this. People of our age? Nah.

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7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

If there's a northern accent with capabilities, that's a different thing - but i've not seen one that I can remember.

I think Rayner or Nandy could grow into the role, but neither fill me with huge confidence.

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12 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I fear this may be a good result for Long Bailey. I can see momentum framing a contest against Starmer as labour needing a female leader with a northern accent.

Well Boris Johnson being a Southern Etonian, Oxford Uni Classics graduate didn't exactly do him any harm in the northern/west midlands working class areas

The one silver lining I had when I saw the exit polls last night was that it surely forces Labours hand about having to end Corbynism and shift back to the centre left under a candidate like Keir Starmer

Looked at the odds this morning and can see Long Bailey is still second favorite to take over at 4/1... Sigh

 

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1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

I think Rayner or Nandy could grow into the role, but neither fill me with huge confidence.

defo not Nandy.

Rayner maybe. I thought in that debate she did (was it under-30s?) she was pretty good at not getting dragged in circular arguments and making a pertinent point instead, but i also thought she was shown up for not thinking things thru with the brexit policy - and that was a whopper.

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13 minutes ago, JonSnow said:

Well Boris Johnson being a Southern Etonian, Oxford Uni Classics graduate didn't exactly do him any harm in the northern/west midlands working class areas

The one silver lining I had when I saw the exit polls last night was that it surely forces Labours hand about having to end Corbynism and shift back to the centre left under a candidate like Keir Starmer

Looked at the odds this morning and can see Long Bailey is still second favorite to take over at 4/1... Sigh

 

I'm not sure, the likes of Momentum, McCluskey and Owen Jones will go full on about how this loss is about Brexit and not Corbyn. I only hope enough members don't fall for it.

Edited by pink_triangle

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2 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Tom Watson showed some foresight to make sure he wasn't the big labour loss on the news recap

 

yup, a very smart move - because it would have been used by the Corbynites as a rejection of 'centralism' and twisted from that being an endorsement of Corbynism.

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