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9 minutes ago, zahidf said:

That was the most recent poll. 

I'm.not saying Bernie will win for sure, I'm just disputing that he's slipping massively. He's still second on average. 

Firstly you wouldn't just go on the most recent polls. Secondly that poll is limited value because they don't pick based on favourability, if your favourable about 5 candidates you can only choose 1! 

As I have said the trend is that Bernie has regressed from consistent second to fluctuating second to fourth. That doesn't mean he can't win, but thats what the trend of the polls show.

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https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/105426/shadow-justice-minister-gloria-de-piero-quits

I disagree with Gloria about Brexit, but she can make a perfectly fine intellectual argument. I completely agree with her concerns about lack of tolerance for different viewpoints. Uniform opinion is not something we should aim for.

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1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/105426/shadow-justice-minister-gloria-de-piero-quits

I disagree with Gloria about Brexit, but she can make a perfectly fine intellectual argument. I completely agree with her concerns about lack of tolerance for different viewpoints. Uniform opinion is not something we should aim for.

Labour memberships want a pro remain party. It's a fundamental difference if she isn't in that camp, not a minor one, so if she isn't willing to argue for a second referendum, she should consider her position.

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1 hour ago, zahidf said:

Labour memberships want a pro remain party. It's a fundamental difference if she isn't in that camp, not a minor one, so if she isn't willing to argue for a second referendum, she should consider her position.

Labour can't win a general election with only remain voters. Labour has previously been a broad church which allows for people to have different views, just as Jez did as a backbencher. To abuse her for this is clearly incorrect. She is also one of the few labour ministers who isn't useless on TV, a big loss in my view.

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9 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Labour can't win a general election with only remain voters. Labour has previously been a broad church which allows for people to have different views, just as Jez did as a backbencher. To abuse her for this is clearly incorrect. She is also one of the few labour ministers who isn't useless on TV, a big loss in my view.

I Don't countenance abuse. However, you've criticised Jez for being on the fence. Labour can't be on the fence, it has to pick a side on a referendum now. 

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3 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/105426/shadow-justice-minister-gloria-de-piero-quits

I disagree with Gloria about Brexit, but she can make a perfectly fine intellectual argument. I completely agree with her concerns about lack of tolerance for different viewpoints. Uniform opinion is not something we should aim for.

You guys all seemed perfectly fine with unified opinion when the subject was Scottish independence

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Nowt to do with brexit though is it, you never hear about Dennis Skinner getting abuse from the Corbynistas over his brexit position. She wrote an article in the sun asking normal people to join labour and vote against Jez, her crime is questioning dear leader like everyone else who gets abuse. Brexit is a convenient cover, no-ones stupid enough to feel that strongly about a tory negotiated brexit vs labour negotiated brexit as they'll be 99% the same.

If the members felt really strongly about brexit they'd of had Jez out by now.

Edited by lost

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37 minutes ago, lost said:

Nowt to do with brexit though is it, you never hear about Dennis Skinner getting abuse from the Corbynistas over his brexit position. She wrote an article in the sun asking normal people to join labour and vote against Jez, her crime is questioning dear leader like everyone else who gets abuse. Brexit is a convenient cover, no-ones stupid enough to feel that strongly about a tory negotiated brexit vs labour negotiated brexit as they'll be 99% the same.

If the members felt really strongly about brexit they'd of had Jez out by now.

That's not what the article says. 

 

I thought the corbynistas abused pro remain mps? Make your mind up.

 

It's a 500 vote majority. It's probably more options being in the private sector, local reasons and her not being happy over the abuse on brexit 

You don't know what reaction Skinner gets. Other labour brexitters like Hoey certainly gets a lot of shit. (And she's resigning as well)

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2 hours ago, zahidf said:

 

 

I thought the corbynistas abused pro remain mps? Make your mind up.

 

No I'm saying they abuse MP's who don't follow the party line and find another reason to attack them could be remain, could be leave, could be support for Israel basically anything which doesn't blindly follow the party line because they are apparently trying to make Corbyn look bad.  If jez is "on the fence" both remain and leave positions can be a conspiracy to undermine him simultaneously.

Jon Trickett's another leave MP from around here who gets a free pass because the cult has decided he doesn't want to leave to undermine Jez, he's ok to break a 3 line whip. Hoey isn't to do with brexit more she campaigned for it side by side with Farage

Edited by lost

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12 minutes ago, lost said:

No I'm saying they abuse MP's who don't follow the party line and find another reason to attack them could be remain, could be leave, could be support for Israel basically anything which doesn't blindly follow the party line because they are apparently trying to make Corbyn look bad.  If jez is "on the fence" both remain and leave positions can be a conspiracy to undermine him simultaneously.

Jon Trickett's another leave MP from around here who gets a free pass, Hoey isn't to do with brexit more she campaigned for it side by side with Farage

If there was any other leader than Jez, the pro brexit mps would still be getting the same stick. The labour membership are anti brexit as a whole.

 

You're very quiet about the Tory mps being abused by their members over their anti brexit stance. But I guess you have to stick to the party line on that.

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37 minutes ago, zahidf said:

You're very quiet about the Tory mps being abused by their members over their anti brexit stance. But I guess you have to stick to the party line on that.

So are you.

It was in response to Pink post specifically about an MP. I'm hoping things aren't as bad for the tories as they have the Brexit party to the right to keep alot of the nutters out. Something labour don't have. I'm more hopeful at this time that the tories have a chance of being lead by a Rory Stewart type character than labour by an Yvette Cooper type eventually.

Edited by lost

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23 minutes ago, lost said:

So are you.

It was in response to Pink post specifically about an MP. I'm hoping things aren't as bad for the tories as they have the Brexit party to the right to keep alot of the nutters out. Something labour don't have. I'm more hopeful at this time that the tories have a chance of being lead by a rory stewart than labour by an yvette cooper

Not sure what that's based on, given grieves vote of no confidence and Johnson's landslide victory to come.the nutters are very much in charge of the Tory party membership 

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15 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Not sure what that's based on,

Its based on it just being brexit in the Tories (which will be over eventually) whilst labour its everything. Jez is shit on brexit, economics, foreign policy, defence, everything. But it always the fault of those who can see he's a moron not him.

 

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20 minutes ago, lost said:

Its based on it just being brexit in the Tories (which will be over eventually) whilst labour its everything. Jez is shit on brexit, economics, foreign policy, defence, everything. But it always the fault of those who can see he's a moron not him.

 

Brexit won't be over for years, esp if it's a no deal. Jez won't be around that much longer 

The Tories are the new GOP. They've all gone full trump.

Edited by zahidf

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8 hours ago, zahidf said:

I Don't countenance abuse. However, you've criticised Jez for being on the fence. Labour can't be on the fence, it has to pick a side on a referendum now. 

I agree labour can't be on the fence, but no issue with individual MPs disagreeing with leadership as Jez did multiple times. Ken Clarke has been on the other side from Tory members on Europe for years.

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7 hours ago, LJS said:

You guys all seemed perfectly fine with unified opinion when the subject was Scottish independence

I have no problem with uniform opinion on improving health and education. If a labour mp had been pro Indy I wouldn't have been bothered.

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4 hours ago, zahidf said:

If there was any other leader than Jez, the pro brexit mps would still be getting the same stick. The labour membership are anti brexit as a whole.

 

You're very quiet about the Tory mps being abused by their members over their anti brexit stance. But I guess you have to stick to the party line on that.

They would be getting stick, but I don't think at this level. I think the Jez leadership has resulted in a move in the direction of tribal politics.

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4 hours ago, zahidf said:

Not sure what that's based on, given grieves vote of no confidence and Johnson's landslide victory to come.the nutters are very much in charge of the Tory party membership 

I agree at present, however the torys are a more pragmatic party. Jez could lose another election and keep his job, Boris would be out of the door straight away.

Both labour and torys were better parties when they focussed on voters, instead of a small core of members. They are both as bad as each other.

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41 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I agree at present, however the torys are a more pragmatic party. Jez could lose another election and keep his job, Boris would be out of the door straight away.

Both labour and torys were better parties when they focussed on voters, instead of a small core of members. They are both as bad as each other.

Nah. If Tories were more pragmatic, boris wouldn't be near power. They also let may hang on for WAY too long.

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11 hours ago, zahidf said:

Not sure what that's based on, given grieves vote of no confidence and Johnson's landslide victory to come.the nutters are very much in charge of the Tory party membership 

Labour has a 4 year head start at letting the nutters take over.

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11 hours ago, zahidf said:

The Tories are the new GOP. They've all gone full trump.

the tories are just the latest to arrive at the station called "we can promise you anything and reality doesn't have to play a part".

Long departed before them and a long way down the track are the SNP and Labour.

It's less about the fruitcake things these parties promise and much more about the fact that their supporters suck up the fakery.

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7 hours ago, zahidf said:

Nah. If Tories were more pragmatic, boris wouldn't be near power. They also let may hang on for WAY too long.

If Labour were more pragmatic, Jez wouldn't be near power. They also let Jez hang on for WAY too long.

:P 

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8 hours ago, zahidf said:

Nah. If Tories were more pragmatic, boris wouldn't be near power. They also let may hang on for WAY too long.

The pragmatism comes from the power MPs have to get rid of the leader. If 50 percent of Tory MPs want rid of the leader they are gone. In labour 99 percent can want to get rid of them and they can hang on.

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