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1 hour ago, jump said:

One of the guys on Biden's team, Andrew Yang has been talking alot about this, he even went onto Jericho's podcast to talk about it.

It's gone to the courts and has had public attention before but it comes down to the same thing, WWE is the biggest place going (even with AEW) and the compromise to work there out ways the name building and money, unless the main eventers and top mid-carders are willing to stick their neck outs nothing will change.

I haven’t watched in over a year, but are there main eventers who are really indispensable at present? I guess if it was a collective thing they may take notice.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 11/15/2020 at 2:59 PM, pink_triangle said:

I haven’t watched in over a year, but are there main eventers who are really indispensable at present? I guess if it was a collective thing they may take notice.

With AEW doing so well at the moment most of the talent is probably considered indispensable. They'll have seen Moxley thriving there and elsewhere and know not to risk handing over another misused talent to them.

Really excited about Sting and what his future holds. Doubt he'll be wrestling much at all, and if so it will be in tag/trios matches. But reckon after his WWE nightmare he must be absolutely pumped to have the creative freedom with so many fresh possibilities to work with. Have no doubt he'll want a big final career match and AEW definitely have the chops to give him that. AEW really have aced the way they've brought in legends and used them well. Imagine Sting will be utilised in many different ways during his contract but he must be feeling very confident of being one of the very few wrestlers who get an actual, proper, great send off match. Hopefully AEW don't go down the clichéd on screen authority route but if they ever did a retired Sting as a public face for Tony Khan and as a neutral entity wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

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20 hours ago, kingbadger said:

With AEW doing so well at the moment most of the talent is probably considered indispensable. They'll have seen Moxley thriving there and elsewhere and know not to risk handing over another misused talent to them.

Really excited about Sting and what his future holds. Doubt he'll be wrestling much at all, and if so it will be in tag/trios matches. But reckon after his WWE nightmare he must be absolutely pumped to have the creative freedom with so many fresh possibilities to work with. Have no doubt he'll want a big final career match and AEW definitely have the chops to give him that. AEW really have aced the way they've brought in legends and used them well. Imagine Sting will be utilised in many different ways during his contract but he must be feeling very confident of being one of the very few wrestlers who get an actual, proper, great send off match. Hopefully AEW don't go down the clichéd on screen authority route but if they ever did a retired Sting as a public face for Tony Khan and as a neutral entity wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Is AEW profitable? Are they affecting the WWE from a financial perspective? I haven't got a clue on either. 

If Ronan Reigns appeared on AEW would WWE lose rating to AEW?

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15 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Is AEW profitable? Are they affecting the WWE from a financial perspective? I haven't got a clue on either. 

If Ronan Reigns appeared on AEW would WWE lose rating to AEW?

No idea on profitable but they're obviously very well backed financially and from various reports they're trying to run sustainably. Obviously more than half Dynamite's run has been during Covid with no crowds but by all accounts they're far exceeding expectations.

As for WWE, I don't think they're trying to compete per se, but just fill the gap in the market for a proper wrestling company. WWE seemed to have morphed into nothing but a brand, and the Network has meant they're run more akin to a reality show than an actual wrestling company. 

As for ratings, WWE have tried to counter Dynamite with NXT but ultimately have lost heavily throughout despite WWE stacking NXT at various points and treating it as a 3rd brand rather than Developmental. WWE simple appeal now is to a very young and a very old audience, therefore not necessarily making it the most attractive prospect for television, but then again that's what the Network is for.

As for ratings, this past week Raw on Monday had an average 1.74 million viewers and did a .51 rating in the key demo. On the other hand Dynamite had an average viewership of 995,000 but did a .45 rating. Granted this was one of the most successful Dynamites since pre-Covid, it shows that as a commercially viable TV product that Dynamite isn't a million miles away from Raw at all. Additionally, it shows just how much of a different audience that AEW is pulling in to Raw, given the much higher proportion of viewers in the 18-49 demographic. 

Dynamite is obviously counter-programmed by NXT, so a decent amount of its potential audience is being stolen away. Whilst I heavily doubt that AEW will ever threaten the business security of the WWE, it could well clearly establish itself and grow in size and stature without really having to worry about WWE trouncing it. WWE's divergence from wrestling and AEW's focus on this as their product means there isn't as much crossover in potential crossover as you think, unlike WWE and WCW back in the 90s who were vying for the very same audience.

As for if Roman Reigns being a draw in AEW, that would of course be massive. However what WWE need to be wary of is the fact that their M.O. has been scooping up every wrestler into their roster so no viable competition could emerge. However Cody and now Jon Moxley have shown there is a clear path to succeed outside of WWE, and coupled with the rise of independent wrestling and the Japanese scene becoming more mainstream, indie talent like The Young Bucks, Kenny Omega etc have never been better. WWE have huge creative restraints on their roster as well as being just gross to work for as an employer. Whilst money will always talk with respect to the big players like Roman Reigns etc, a lot of the excellent but under utilised and mishandled talent WWE has on its roster are from the indies and have a massive intertwined history with those running and making up AEW. Whilst I can't see anyone like Roman Reigns jumping from WWE to AEW, I could definitely see workers like Kevin Owens, Nakamura, Adam Cole etc having their head turned, given the freedom, much reduced schedule and less oppressive contracts on offer.

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I think for AEW to truly establish itself and become a strong brand in pro wrestling needs to create it' own starts.

So far they have been relaying on rejects and has been's from WWE and stars already establish in Japan like Omega. Sting might spike the ratings for a short time, but on the other hand who would pay to see a 61 year wrestle?

AEW needs to invest in it's own young talents like MJF and Orange to try and create it's own superstars that would be known outside the hardcore wrestling fans.

 

Edited by A-Rob
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5 hours ago, A-Rob said:

I think for AEW to truly establish itself and become a strong brand in pro wrestling needs to create it' own starts.

So far they have been relaying on rejects and has been's from WWE and stars already establish in Japan like Omega. Sting might spike the ratings for a short time, but on the other hand who would pay to see a 61 year wrestle?

AEW needs to invest in it's own young talents like MJF and Orange to try and create it's own superstars that would be known outside the hardcore wrestling fans.

 

Rejects and has-beens? Jon Moxley is having the run of his career. Great matches, great promos and a great character after years of bullshit. Chris Jericho is essential to AEW, as when you start a new company you want a familiar name to draw people in, and the key is he is being used to get people over. Just like Sting will, it is not even clear if Sting is wrestling. The argument of rejects and has-beens could be used to against WWF in 97. Remember the WCW rejects like Steve Austin, HHH, Foley and The Undertaker. Or what about the TNA rejects/has-beens dominating current WWE programming - AJ Styles, Lashley, Drew....You don't just push unknown guys from the start, and  just because a wrestler was booked like shit elsewhere, it doesn't mean they shouldn't get an opportunity to prove themselves. Kenny Omega is one of the best wrestlers in the world, any company not wanting him because he was in Japan deserves to go out of business.

They are pushing their own stars. if you watch the product you can see that Adam Page, MJF, Darby, Sammy and Jungle Boy are going to be the top guys in the future. The company has only been running shows for 18 months. It is all long term building which will pay off in the end. I think it is great that Tony Khan, a lifelong fan, who has only been in the business a year is booking circles and destroying NXT. The company is getting more popular and the 2nd most popular show on cable in the key demo. The way things are going, they will overtake RAW.

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On 12/11/2020 at 6:13 PM, pink_triangle said:

Is AEW profitable? Are they affecting the WWE from a financial perspective? I haven't got a clue on either. 

 

Yes, they are profitable as TNT renewed them just before the pandemic started. Think for an additional 4 years, but can't remember but it is good for them and with ratings doing amazing right now, future looks bright. WWE are making more money than ever. That Smackdown FOX deal was great for them.  AEW with the no full crowds etc it is kind of hard to gauge how popular they can be until things go back to normal as everything is different right now. It felt like they were going to blow up around Feb. Right now is the hottest they have been. I  suggest you check out some of the Omega stuff from over the last week. He is appearing on Impact and going to be a belt collector (he also has a shot at the AAA mexican title tonight). As an old school wrestling fan I think you would dig what he is doing. He has Don Callis as his manager and its a throwback to Bobby Heenan and Nick Bockwinkel.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by When Jokers Attack
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On 12/12/2020 at 1:32 PM, A-Rob said:

I think for AEW to truly establish itself and become a strong brand in pro wrestling needs to create it' own starts.

So far they have been relaying on rejects and has been's from WWE and stars already establish in Japan like Omega. Sting might spike the ratings for a short time, but on the other hand who would pay to see a 61 year wrestle?

AEW needs to invest in it's own young talents like MJF and Orange to try and create it's own superstars that would be known outside the hardcore wrestling fans.

 

What rejects and has beens from WWE? Chris Jericho is an all time great and Jon Moxley is a completely different entity to Dean Ambrose. AEW was literally founded by self made stars in Cody, Young Bucks and Omega. MJF has been ranked in the top 5 pretty much since AEW's inception and has only taken one pinfall, Orange Cassidy went over Jericho twice. Sting is an inspired signing - he might wrestle the odd tag much perhaps but he's got creative licence and deserves a proper send off, rather than the shitshow that was his WWE booking. The fact there's already big hints at a programme with Darby Allin shows the direction they're heading in there. 

AEW is clearly on the up and up and whilst WWE are making more money than ever, the fact Dynamite beat Raw in the demo ratings shows which way they're both trending. WWE's creative has been shite for years and they've also seemingly ruined NXT as well. AEW really don't seem likely to fall into the trap which TNA did of becoming WWE-lite. AEW is clearly aimed at a more marketable audience and I really can see them exploding big time once crowds etc are allowed back in. To be doing numbers close to or better than when they had live crowds shows how well they've done during an extremely tough period, let alone for a start up company.

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13 hours ago, kingbadger said:

AEW really don't seem likely to fall into the trap which TNA did of becoming WWE-lite. AEW is clearly aimed at a more marketable audience and I really can see them exploding big time once crowds etc are allowed back in. To be doing numbers close to or better than when they had live crowds shows how well they've done during an extremely tough period, let alone for a start up company.

What do you mean in terms of more marketable audience? Surely WWE aiming for kids is the most marketable audience?

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2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

What do you mean in terms of more marketable audience? Surely WWE aiming for kids is the most marketable audience?

Not to the broadcasters who only really care about the 18-49 demographic (especially male) as this dictates the advertising revenue the programme sells. AEW has been rating extremely well for TNT in this respect. Dynamite was ranked 3rd in the top 150 cable shows last night with a .32 rating, and that's with a major dip from their recent couple of massive shows. On the flipside NXT came 34th with a .19 rating. From a ratings perspective Dynamite has regularly been doing almost double the rating NXT has, and has been outperforming all reasonable expectations people had even before the pandemic hit. 

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4 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

What do you mean in terms of more marketable audience? Surely WWE aiming for kids is the most marketable audience?

They aren’t particularly aiming for kids though, they are just aiming to be the market leader. However trying to keep everyone happy fails to connect with any audience segments leading to its current state where people just bitch how shit WWE and it’s plummeting viewers.

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8 minutes ago, jump said:

They aren’t particularly aiming for kids though, they are just aiming to be the market leader. However trying to keep everyone happy fails to connect with any audience segments leading to its current state where people just bitch how shit WWE and it’s plummeting viewers.

Realistically though they aren't going to focus on a particular market or make  it more edgy (preferable to me, I guess not for everyone) if they think it will cause them to make less money.

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2 hours ago, jump said:

They aren’t particularly aiming for kids though, they are just aiming to be the market leader. However trying to keep everyone happy fails to connect with any audience segments leading to its current state where people just bitch how shit WWE and it’s plummeting viewers.

I think the crux of the issue for wrestling fans is that long ago WWE ceased to be a wrestling company. Even back in the 90s Vince talked about WWE becoming in effect its own film studio and that's what it's become. Its now its own self-contained entertainment product, and the emphasis shifted years ago from wrestling to producing entertainment. It doesn't matter really if the core product is terrible, as long as its there then the Network can continue to create all the nostalgic documentaries, reality shows etc to be its own self-contained Netflix. 

The reason the product is shit is cos there is no need or want to create the next huge superstar - all the focus is on getting people into the brand loyalty and its the company brand as a whole that gets pushed. You then get all the shitty and shady employment practices that comes with such an approach- WWE filing trademarks of people's names without their consent, stopping workers using Twitch etc without WWE getting the lion's share of revenue etc. The company is an abomination in this respect, cutting long serving workers at the height of the pandemic yet then bragging about posting record profits days later. 

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20 hours ago, kingbadger said:

I think the crux of the issue for wrestling fans is that long ago WWE ceased to be a wrestling company. Even back in the 90s Vince talked about WWE becoming in effect its own film studio and that's what it's become. Its now its own self-contained entertainment product, and the emphasis shifted years ago from wrestling to producing entertainment. It doesn't matter really if the core product is terrible, as long as its there then the Network can continue to create all the nostalgic documentaries, reality shows etc to be its own self-contained Netflix. 

The reason the product is shit is cos there is no need or want to create the next huge superstar - all the focus is on getting people into the brand loyalty and its the company brand as a whole that gets pushed. You then get all the shitty and shady employment practices that comes with such an approach- WWE filing trademarks of people's names without their consent, stopping workers using Twitch etc without WWE getting the lion's share of revenue etc. The company is an abomination in this respect, cutting long serving workers at the height of the pandemic yet then bragging about posting record profits days later. 

Things like their films and The Network aren't really revenue drivers though, their loss of PPV money hasn't been offset by The Network to the point a bunch of execs got fired because of it once they realized and their film division is a joke.

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  • 1 month later...

It’s that time of year when people can stomach WWE again, The Royal Rumble!

Daniel Bryan looks the favourite to me to get a match with Reigns. I can also see Brock making a return for a rematch with Drew otherwise Edge/Orton winning to set up and rematch with the other one.

I’ve got no clue on the women’s Rumble, maybe Ronda or Becky making their returns.

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11 hours ago, rock the clock said:

I've not been following closely for years, tho have been periodically been watching AEW since it's inception. 

What's the deal with the latest brandsplit. If Smack down superstar wins the rumble do they automatically challenge for the smackdown world title or can they decide like back in the 00's?

They can choose who they want. Like last year Charlotte Flair won the rumble but she decided instead of going for either the Raw or Smackdown champs went after the NXT women's champ instead.

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Yeah, The Rumble and Mania are the only things I watch now. 
 

Daniel Bryan seems like he is dead set to win the Rumble. A part of me can’t help but think that they will have Brock turn up for 30 seconds and win, though. I can honestly see it happening. 
 

Bianca Bel Air or Rhea Ripley for their Rumble. 

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So my thoughts on the Rumble.

Goldberg didn't win 🙂

Who the fuck is Bad Bunny?

Both Rumble's were fun which is ultimately what matters. God damn Bianca & Ripley looked great and I'm not really an Edge fan but it's a nice moment still.

The women's Rumble is starting to really struggle for the legends suprise spots, they burnt through them too quickly the first couple of years. Then again there was no one really special popping up in the men's either.

No Fiend? I was hoping for him to pop up three times in the Rumble like Foley did.  

Why was Ricochet in the Rumble when he lost his qualifying match for the Rumble?

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I am not mad at Edge winning in the slightest. This is a proper Cinderella story. He’s looks great, too.
 

This isn’t the same as Goldberg or Batista coming back and stinkin’ the joint up because they get gassed getting into the ring. Edge looks fantastic.

I’m genuinely intrigued as to who he chooses to face at Mania. Reigns in a battle of the spears seems the logical option and Reigns is a super-safe worker who can protect Edge (not saying that Drew isn’t in the slightest). Either way, I think that Mania ends with Edge holding a title aloft. 
 

On a separate note, I know he is low hanging fruit, but Michael Cole is fucking DIRE. His call when Seth Rollins returned after a couple of months out was genuinely maddening. It was AWFUL. ‘...He hasn’t been seen since Survivor Series...’ in the most monotone voice imaginable. It was ‘It’s... Christian*’ levels of bad.  

*awesome to see him get his moment to shine alongside Edge. That was great. He also looked good. 

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42 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

I’m genuinely intrigued as to who he chooses to face at Mania. Reigns in a battle of the spears seems the logical option and Reigns is a super-safe worker who can protect Edge (not saying that Drew isn’t in the slightest). Either way, I think that Mania ends with Edge holding a title aloft. 

Thing is Reings vs Bryan for 'mania seems set but Drew doesn't have someone to face. A face vs face between them doesn't look right so either one turns or Miz cashes in on Drew before 'mania and he faces Edge, with Edge winning for a feel good ending especically if Reigns beats Bryan in the other title match on the day.

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  • 4 weeks later...
18 hours ago, jump said:

WTF Big Show is joining AEW now?!

I haven't watched for a couple of years and even then he didn't have much of a role. I remember his wwe debut and you have to give anyone credit who manages 20 plus years in the WWE. 

I personally preferred him in his late wcw years and feel if he had got into the shape of his later wwe years earlier then he could have achieved more. However he had a pretty good run.

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