WWE

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, Andre91 said:

Good for him. He deserves so much better. 

I think Harper is good, but he is on a roster full of other good wrestlers. Some better and many younger. I just couldn't see him ever being a priority.

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, jump said:

 

They've already moved up the NXT card which is an US promotion.

It's a US promotion, but I suspect a decent proportion (can't find figures) who watch the main shows don't watch it.

2 hours ago, jump said:

 

New Japan and Lucha Underground (before you say I know you don't count anything that isn't American but that's more down to your own ignorance than them not being a promotion), I'd argue he's a bigger name than Austin was when they joined WWE too, his matches with Osprey was getting HUGE attention at the time.

 

I wouldnt say it doesn't count, some of the best like Benoit, Jericho, Eddie etc hugely benefited from wrestling outside the WCW/WWE mainstream. They didn't automatically jump to the main event when they moved though. 

However I am convinced there are significant WWE fans who don't watch non WWE product and aren't familiar with these guys.

I know when Austin was in WCW it wasn't at it's peak. However having a TV deal I struggle to believe he was seen by less people than Ricochet. Again no figures to back it up, but happy to be corrected.

2 hours ago, jump said:

 

Filling out the card in tag matches isn't a spotlight it's just filling out the card, also the Raw tag division is a huge joke where even being the tag champs means shit. Just look at Matt Hardy, Bray Wyatt, Curtis Axel, Bobby Roode, Chad Gable etc, only Hardy has done well since and that's largely because he retired for a few months and then got back with Jeff. You can have mid-cards feuds to spotlight people but WWE can't manage anything that isn't over a title/Roman Reigns/nostalgia wrestlers anymore. 

You can have mid card feuds, but the roster is hugely bloated so a lot ends up being filler. Look at the monthly shows take out the heavyweight title matches, woman's matches, tag matches, there isn't room for much.

[jump]

3 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

It's a US promotion, but I suspect a decent proportion (can't find figures) who watch the main shows don't watch it.

I wouldnt say it doesn't count, some of the best like Benoit, Jericho, Eddie etc hugely benefited from wrestling outside the WCW/WWE mainstream. They didn't automatically jump to the main event when they moved though. 

However I am convinced there are significant WWE fans who don't watch non WWE product and aren't familiar with these guys.

I know when Austin was in WCW it wasn't at it's peak. However having a TV deal I struggle to believe he was seen by less people than Ricochet. Again no figures to back it up, but happy to be corrected.

You can have mid card feuds, but the roster is hugely bloated so a lot ends up being filler. Look at the monthly shows take out the heavyweight title matches, woman's matches, tag matches, there isn't room for much.

They don't give figures but it's been mentioned that NXT TakeOver has over taken WWE PPVs on the network before, the specific example used was Wargames overtaking Survivor Series (one of WWE's big 4) which featured their big names of Brock, Ronda, Bryan etc in it. There is a reason why NXT is dubbed the 2nd biggest promotion in the US.

This is going in silly places as we both agree Austin wasn't a name upon arrival in WWE (literally as he was called The Ringmaster) so I'm not sure the relevance of why it's being brought up. However it really doesn't change that within a few short months of coming in he was pushed and being pushed without being in the main event of PPVs/challenging for the title. If you look back at his The Ringmaster phase it was actually being partnered up with Ted DiBiase that held him back from breaking out. If the talented isn't treated like a big then they don't become a big deal.

[Andre91]

@pink_triangle might be the most contrarian poster I’ve ever known  

[jump]

39 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

@pink_triangle might be the most contrarian poster I’ve ever known  

I'm going to the London Raw taping next month and for a split second it did pop into my head I should make a poster saying "PINK TRIANGLE! I TOLD YOU NEW DAY COULD FACE DANIEL BRYAN AT WRESTLEMANIA!" after a day long disagreement about it a few months ago just so I could zoom in on it, make a pic and post it replying to one of his old post saying it will never happen.

 

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, jump said:

They don't give figures but it's been mentioned that NXT TakeOver has over taken WWE PPVs on the network before, the specific example used was Wargames overtaking Survivor Series (one of WWE's big 4) which featured their big names of Brock, Ronda, Bryan etc in it. There is a reason why NXT is dubbed the 2nd biggest promotion in the US.

 

That's on the network though. What proportion of people who watch WWE on TV own the network? My instinct is that the type of audience who purchase the network may be different to those who do. My guess is that the majority of regular Raw/smackdown viewers in the US dont own the Network, don't watch NXT and had never seen a Ricochet match before his debut on the main roster 

[pink_triangle]

59 minutes ago, jump said:

I'm going to the London Raw taping next month and for a split second it did pop into my head I should make a poster saying "PINK TRIANGLE! I TOLD YOU NEW DAY COULD FACE DANIEL BRYAN AT WRESTLEMANIA!" after a day long disagreement about it a few months ago just so I could zoom in on it, make a pic and post it replying to one of his old post saying it will never happen.

 

Well when I made the argument that was definitely not the plan. However circumstances changed and Kofi took the ball and ran with it.

I have huge respect for anyone who does that. Several over the years have had an unplanned opportunity and not taken it.

As for my predictions, going on my success with betting on football, if I bet on something, the opposite will likely happen.

[pink_triangle]

8 hours ago, jump said:

IHe's asked for his release which is pending acceptance from WWE, apparently Alexander Wolf has left WWE now too. It says a lot about how many people are asking for their release atm from WWE, Sasha Banks is still off somewhere too and The Revival staying was based on a promise to fix the tag division...

 

I think it's great that wrestlers feel they have alternatives. I don't think it's necessarily the wrestler or the WWE fault. Sometimes people need a move, or aren't the right match.

I really hope AEW takes off as it means wrestlers make more money, fans habr more content and I think it will push the WWE to be better. I have a few concerns about their chances, but having the financial backing gives them a chsnce.

[jump]

15 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I think it's great that wrestlers feel they have alternatives. I don't think it's necessarily the wrestler or the WWE fault. Sometimes people need a move, or aren't the right match.

I really hope AEW takes off as it means wrestlers make more money, fans habr more content and I think it will push the WWE to be better. I have a few concerns about their chances, but having the financial backing gives them a chsnce.

I'm not sure WWE will make changes to their content due to AEWs existence, the circumstances of the 80s and 90s with the pressure of Starrcade and the Monday Night Wars is different now due to WWE being financially very healthy due to the telly deals and the Abu Dhabi shows. The can literally lose fans, wait things out and still be the number 1 promotion whilst making billions. If anything it could make WWE worse by deciding to play their best hand of nostalgia and bring back more oldies which will only feed into the existing problems. 

I doubt anything will happen to improve the problem in a major way whilst Vince is at the wheel* but I can see once Trips takes over the product will be better and the other biggie of "independent contractors" wont change even with AEW seemingly taking a better approach as there's too much liability. I can see if there's a general moral outrage over it and pressure from sponsors will have more of a cause and effect.

*A few months ago they made a song and dance about it but then made the usual mistakes of rash call ups with no plans for them, they fucked over the Smackdowns women's division by taking their tops stars & belt just to service the Raw feud, the tag division hasn't improved, talent being unhappy with creative etc although they did go with Kofi when he got over so they are doing some things right.

18 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

That's on the network though. What proportion of people who watch WWE on TV own the network? My instinct is that the type of audience who purchase the network may be different to those who do. My guess is that the majority of regular Raw/smackdown viewers in the US dont own the Network, don't watch NXT and had never seen a Ricochet match before his debut on the main roster 

I still reckon it's a bigger chunk than you realise and tbh if you worry about the audience who aren't watching the PPVs then you will have to massively dumb down the product. Imagine shows like Games of Thrones, Breaking Bad or whatever and they decided they had to worry about people who haven't seen past episodes it would completely break up the flow.

You can introduce wrestlers and present them in a way where you don't need to know the full backstory to get them.

Edited April 18, 2019 by jump

[pink_triangle]

11 hours ago, jump said:

I'm not sure WWE will make changes to their content due to AEWs existence, the circumstances of the 80s and 90s with the pressure of Starrcade and the Monday Night Wars is different now due to WWE being financially very healthy due to the telly deals and the Abu Dhabi shows. The can literally lose fans, wait things out and still be the number 1 promotion whilst making billions. If anything it could make WWE worse by deciding to play their best hand of nostalgia and bring back more oldies which will only feed into the existing problems. 

I doubt anything will happen to improve the problem in a major way whilst Vince is at the wheel* but I can see once Trips takes over the product will be better and the other biggie of "independent contractors" wont change even with AEW seemingly taking a better approach as there's too much liability. I can see if there's a general moral outrage over it and pressure from sponsors will have more of a cause and effect.

 

Yes I agree, the existence of AEW won’t make WWE change creative. However the likes of Usos and Styles have got better contracts, so it has had some impact. Only AEW becoming a huge success could impact on WWE over time, but I think that’s unlikely. WWE make some business decisions like a 3 hour raw which hurt creative, but there are no guarantees that they would make the money back from a better 2 hour show. My guess is if HHH took over today things wouldn’t change significantly as from a business perspective the model works.

 

11 hours ago, jump said:

 

You can introduce wrestlers and present them in a way where you don't need to know the full backstory to get them.

I agree, but can think of few reasons why some backstory can’t work. As I have said I’m a big fan of a few weeks of Vignettes, would have been perfect for a team like Vampire experience.

[jump]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 9:33 PM, pink_triangle said:

Yes I agree, the existence of AEW won’t make WWE change creative. However the likes of Usos and Styles have got better contracts, so it has had some impact. Only AEW becoming a huge success could impact on WWE over time, but I think that’s unlikely. WWE make some business decisions like a 3 hour raw which hurt creative, but there are no guarantees that they would make the money back from a better 2 hour show. My guess is if HHH took over today things wouldn’t change significantly as from a business perspective the model works.

 

I agree, but can think of few reasons why some backstory can’t work. As I have said I’m a big fan of a few weeks of Vignettes, would have been perfect for a team like Vampire experience.

Vampire experience?

 

Hell has frozen over and CM Punk returned to rasslin, tbh it was bit of a shit come back but as long as he's happy.

 

https://www.sportskeeda.com/wwe/wwe-news-cm-punk-makes-a-shock-return-to-pro-wrestling

[pink_triangle]

51 minutes ago, jump said:

Vampire experience?

 

Hell has frozen over and CM Punk returned to rasslin, tbh it was bit of a shit come back but as long as he's happy.

 

https://www.sportskeeda.com/wwe/wwe-news-cm-punk-makes-a-shock-return-to-pro-wrestling

Viking/vampire same difference, or maybe I was talking about that new gangrel/Kevin thorn tag team!

My guess is Punk will come back to the WWE one day. Principles don't pay the bills.

 

[jump]

3 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Viking/vampire same difference, or maybe I was talking about that new gangrel/Kevin thorn tag team!

My guess is Punk will come back to the WWE one day. Principles don't pay the bills.

 

Punk doesn't have a lavish lifestyle so I can't seem him coming back to wrestling for a quick buck, plus on top of the millions he has now he has got side jobs writing comics and doing commentary.

Indy promotions have offered him a million (it was British promotion but I can't remember if it was in dollars or pounds tho) before for an one off match plus AEW he doesn't need WWE to make money in wrestling.

He would only go back to WWE for the 'mania main event which was something he was always after but with the issues he has with the people at the company I doubt the talks would get very far before it turns into an argument. One of the issues is that Punk wasn't popular backstage and there's no one really in the position to smooth things over like JR did with when Stone Cold did. It's only really Kofi or Bryan he's still friends who aren't likely to get involved.

Edited April 21, 2019 by jump

[Andre91]

Punk and Bryan aren’t friends, are they? I know Punk is big pals with Batista. 

Imagine if AEW convince Punk to show up at Double or Nothing. That’d be absolutely huge. 

[pink_triangle]

3 hours ago, jump said:

Punk doesn't have a lavish lifestyle so I can't seem him coming back to wrestling for a quick buck, plus on top of the millions he has now he has got side jobs writing comics and doing commentary.

Indy promotions have offered him a million (it was British promotion but I can't remember if it was in dollars or pounds tho) before for an one off match plus AEW he doesn't need WWE to make money in wrestling.

 

I have lost count of wrestlers who have said they would never go back and then do, I remain sceptical that he will be different. Even with a frugal lifestyle he has still hopefully got many years left on this planet, may want to start a family one day and people often become pragmatic as they get older.

I have no doubt people can make money outside the WWE, but one of those legends deals seems like the best retirement plan 

 

[jump]

2 hours ago, Andre91 said:

Punk and Bryan aren’t friends, are they? I know Punk is big pals with Batista. 

Imagine if AEW convince Punk to show up at Double or Nothing. That’d be absolutely huge. 

They date back to their time in Ring of Honor together, if they aren't friends they are on friendly terms at least as I remember Bryan talking to him when it was announced he was going to UFC.

 

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I have lost count of wrestlers who have said they would never go back and then do, I remain sceptical that he will be different. Even with a frugal lifestyle he has still hopefully got many years left on this planet, may want to start a family one day and people often become pragmatic as they get older.

I have no doubt people can make money outside the WWE, but one of those legends deals seems like the best retirement plan 

 

He may change his mind of course but there's still years worth of bad blood in there that isn't going away anytime soon. Apparently WWE tried to get AJ Lee for the women's PPV as she said no because of his firing on their wedding and general treatment to him. There's also that lawsuit about that podcast which he believes was a WWE attack on him via proxy.

[pink_triangle]

Dustin Rhodes is a great pickup for AEW. If he is part of the regular roster his experience could be invaluable.

[DareToDibble]

On 4/21/2019 at 10:00 AM, jump said:

Hell has frozen over and CM Punk returned to rasslin, tbh it was bit of a shit come back but as long as he's happy.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/wwe/wwe-news-cm-punk-makes-a-shock-return-to-pro-wrestling

There’s a lot of talk on Twitter about it not being him and I think I’m inclined to agree. I don’t think the person seems the right build and he seemed really sloppy.

Surely if he was going to make a comeback it wouldn’t be in a promotion/event as small as that?

[Andre91]

4 hours ago, DareToDibble said:

There’s a lot of talk on Twitter about it not being him and I think I’m inclined to agree. I don’t think the person seems the right build and he seemed really sloppy.

Surely if he was going to make a comeback it wouldn’t be in a promotion/event as small as that?

It’s his mates’ promotion. 

[jump]

7 hours ago, DareToDibble said:

There’s a lot of talk on Twitter about it not being him and I think I’m inclined to agree. I don’t think the person seems the right build and he seemed really sloppy.

Surely if he was going to make a comeback it wouldn’t be in a promotion/event as small as that?

I can't find the pic but there was a side by side of the masked wrestler and CM Punk earlier in the day and they were both wearing the same black hoodie. Also he mentioned years ago on a podcast if he ever does returned to wrestling it will be at small indy show dressed up as a ninja and no one would know it's even him. Throw in it was his mates promotion it all falls into place to be him.

9 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Dustin Rhodes is a great pickup for AEW. If he is part of the regular roster his experience could be invaluable.

I though it was an one off to make up for their shit WWE match and then he moves into backstage role but I might be wrong.

[jump]

You do have to laugh at how weirdly run WWE is. It's been less than a week and "The Viking Experience" are now called The Viking Raiders plus Andrade, Vega & Black (who's married to Vega and WWE don't like breaking up couples) are now off to Smackdown as Fox weren't happy with the shakedown. To balance things Cesaro out is moving to Raw which means The Bar are no longer a team.

[pink_triangle]

12 hours ago, DareToDibble said:

There’s a lot of talk on Twitter about it not being him and I think I’m inclined to agree. I don’t think the person seems the right build and he seemed really sloppy.

Surely if he was going to make a comeback it wouldn’t be in a promotion/event as small as that?

It has got people talking, so its job done. It fits in with the idea of him being a free spirit, I think he is more calculating than people give him credit and knows how best to promote himself.

[pink_triangle]

27 minutes ago, jump said:

You do have to laugh at how weirdly run WWE is. It's been less than a week and "The Viking Experience" are now called The Viking Raiders plus Andrade, Vega & Black (who's married to Vega and WWE don't like breaking up couples) are now off to Smackdown as Fox weren't happy with the shakedown. To balance things Cesaro out is moving to Raw which means The Bar are no longer a team.

Cesaro is a strange one because he has never shown any personality outside the Bar. 

[jump]

10 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Cesaro is a strange one because he has never shown any personality outside the Bar. 

I wouldn't say that, whilst he's found his footing with The Bar he has managed to get over before that. His US titles matches with Cena were getting huge pops, he got the big swing move over with the crowd which his hard considering how corny it is and had that very organic Cesaro Section.

He was one of those people who suffered from strange decisions like being told he has to start yodelling, not to use his big swing move and that Vince interview buried him at the time.

It's abit disappointing to see The Bar break up like this, it served both of them well and were one of my favourite tag teams on the roster.

[WS_Jack_III]

What do we make of Bray Wyatt's new gimmick then? I'm not sure. I think it might have potential. Creepy and unhinged.

Edited April 23, 2019 by WS_Jack_III